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Why is the moon so important for the Vale?


John Doe

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Just a quick question, I may have just overlooked something in the wiki, and I didn't read the world book, where this might be explained, but I wonder why a mountain clan, as well as the mountains are named after the moon, and why it's part of the Arryn sigil?

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Most of it might stem from the Mountains of the Moon: the Gates of the Moon could conceivably be named after them. The Arryns, having built the Gates, would add the moon to their sigil in honor of their seat, like the Freys of the Crossing; and, now having the moon on their shield, they would start naming things: Moon Door, moon this, moon that, like Lannisters have everything lion, and Starks have everything wolf.

One of the tribes inhabiting the Mountains of the Moon is called Moon Brothers - I don't have a detailed theory for that, and I don't think one is needed.

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The real-life "Mountains of the Moon" refers to the ancient source of the Nile in Africa as reported by Diogenes (and then repeated and popularized by Ptolemy).  I think they were called that because they were snow-capped, even in summer.  I'm not sure what that has to do with the moon but there it is.  I presume its just a reference to the mountains being snow-capped and impassable - it might have something to do with the glaciers at the top resembling new moons. 

Clearly, though, the real answer is that GRRM was referring to the 1990 film "Mountains of the Moon" starring Jorah Mormont himself, Iain Glen.

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2 hours ago, John Doe said:

But why are they called Mountains of the Moon in the first place? 

The first Andals would have been in awe of the mountains and would have named them in a way that honors their great height -- while at the same time puffing their own egos by occupying a region that is as high as the moon.

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2 hours ago, estermonty python said:

The real-life "Mountains of the Moon" refers to the ancient source of the Nile in Africa as reported by Diogenes (and then repeated and popularized by Ptolemy).  I think they were called that because they were snow-capped, even in summer.  I'm not sure what that has to do with the moon but there it is.  I presume its just a reference to the mountains being snow-capped and impassable - it might have something to do with the glaciers at the top resembling new moons. 

This is a likely answer.

I also think that since they have such a jagged coastline, they'd have lots of tide. Even cultures in antiquity knew that the phases of the moon affect the tidal waters.

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3 hours ago, estermonty python said:

The real-life "Mountains of the Moon" refers to the ancient source of the Nile in Africa as reported by Diogenes (and then repeated and popularized by Ptolemy).  I think they were called that because they were snow-capped, even in summer.  I'm not sure what that has to do with the moon but there it is.  I presume its just a reference to the mountains being snow-capped and impassable - it might have something to do with the glaciers at the top resembling new moons. 

Clearly, though, the real answer is that GRRM was referring to the 1990 film "Mountains of the Moon" starring Jorah Mormont himself, Iain Glen.

 

Yay! Someone appreciated my zero upvoted reddit post. Ha!

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28 minutes ago, Waters Gate said:

Perhaps there is more to it than this. In braavos for ex. there is a moon based religion apparently with the temple of the moonsingers, Braavos is not too far of the Vale or Andalos where the Vale Andals came from.

Well the Moonsingers actually come from the Jogos Nhai far to the East, rather than being anything native to that area.

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Probably related to the Arryn sigil

22 hours ago, Scootaloo Stark said:

It's a vale, and when something huge like mountains (or skyscrapers) takes up a good portion of the sky, the moon appears much larger.

Maybe that's why? I don't know, just an idea.

^ Or that, I think Scootaloo Stark made an interesting point there.

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Alright I'll bite.

The moon itself has no significance to the story, and there's no reason to read anything into it from a practical perspective.  That said, in the abstract, the moon is generally associated with womanhood, particularly with respect to goddesses, etc.  GRRM as a learned person is aware of this, and his emphasis on womanhood as embodied in the moonsingers is evidence that he makes this connection as well.  He's said that the moonsingers have no significance to the story he's telling, so let's leave that aside.

Beginning with Aegon's Conquest, there are essentially three time periods that matter to the story GRRM is telling.  One is Aegon's Conquest itself, when the Vale was ruled by Sharra Arryn, as Regent for her son Ronnell.  The second is the Dance of the Dragons, when the Vale was ruled by Jeyne Arryn, who was a key ally to Rhaenyra and the blacks.  The last is the present story, where the Vale was ruled by Lysa Arryn and Sansa is now coming of age there.

Essentially, whenever important things that GRRM cares about and has thought a lot about happen in his story, the Vale is ruled by a woman.  I think the significance of the moon in the Vale is merely that womanhood has a special importance and power there, and there is a long history of the Lords of the Vale acceding to female control (which goes a long way in explaining their tremendous deference to Lysa).  This, essentially, makes it an excellent place for Sansa to gain agency, and also has the perfect recipe for Sansa to gain military support.  I don't really buy Sansa as equated with the goddess Diana, as she has no particular affinity or connection with wildlife or nature, and being "above" the cares of mortals is more or less the opposite of how Sansa feels - in fact, her greatest strength to her family will likely be her ability to play the royal diplomacy game that the rest of the Starks are terrible at.  The one area where Sansa might equate well with Diana, goddess of the moon, though, is that Diana was viewed as responsible for protecting kingly succession - she was the kingmaker of the gods.  To that end, I imagine that Sansa's blessing and support will ultimately be key to resolving matters of rule throughout Westeros, from the North, to the Vale, to the Riverlands, to the Iron Throne itself.  

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