Greywater-Watch Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 59 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I wonder if Roose might request to take the Black? I think his only possibility to get away alive. Though I doubt he would be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 2 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said: If Stannis (with the help of Manderlys) defeats the Frey forces, he probably has won Winterfell without lifting a finger. Because if it becomes known that the Manderlys changed side, the strongest supporters of Bolton (the Freys) are erased, RooseBolton is stuck in Winterfell, still with a lot of Northeners only allying with him because of fear and for the fArya story. If they see Stannis on the winning side, Bolton is lost. Worse, if fAryas identity in the meantime is revealed and/or Rickon might have surfaced. The Boltons aren't going to know that the Manderlys switched sides. In fact, as Ramsay's letter indicates, they are going to think they've won the Battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywater-Watch Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Free Northman Reborn said: The Boltons aren't going to know that the Manderly's switched sides. In fact, as Ramsay's letter indicates, they are going to think they've won the Battle. You presume to know the author of the Pink Letter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadakiss Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said: You presume to know the author of the Pink Letter? stannis tybald and theon wrote it. a 2nd grader could have put the pieces together by now, go look at that huge thread the other day on it, most of the logical people here agreed it was not ramsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, Greywater-Watch said: You presume to know the author of the Pink Letter? I believe I do. But whoever it is. The Manderlys aren't going to switch sides publicly while Wyman remains back in Winterfell. The switching has to be without the Boltons' knowledge and they will continue the subterfuge until they are back in Winterfell. Else Wyman is a (flayed) dead man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadakiss Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 6 hours ago, BeastMaster64 said: Yes but there is no way in hell that Stannis army which is out of food will skipp Winterfell, turn around and walk 1000000000 miles back to take the useless Dreadfort. You realize how stupid this theory is right? jesus you are missing so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, Jadakiss said: stannis tybald and theon wrote it. a 2nd grader could have put the pieces together by now, go look at that huge thread the other day on it, most of the logical people here agreed it was not ramsay Oh please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 13 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Oh please. Right? But the thing is, I've no problems with differing opinions, only with the manner in which they are expressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadakiss Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 1 hour ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Oh please. you obviouslt have not added any clues up or characters speech mannerisms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadakiss Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 the op is on point. but lots of other posts to. funny how it turned out the people who are usually right and much more intelligent see it clearly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, Jadakiss said: the op is on point. but lots of other posts to. funny how it turned out the people who are usually right and much more intelligent see it clearly That's an old thread, on a topic discussed to death. I'll not go into the detail here, except to say it falls short in a number of crucial aspects, not least of which is the lack of a realistic motive on Stannis's part (1000 wildling warriors are insignificant in an attempt to storm the walls of Winterfell), and if Stannis wanted Shirreen or Mellisandre he would just have asked for them. In any case, I'm not even sure why we're on the Pink letter topic. It is irrelevant to the fact that the Manderlys cannot openly declare their allegiance switch to the Boltons back at Winterfell while Wyman is still held there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 6 hours ago, Jadakiss said: jesus you are missing so much What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadakiss Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 24 minutes ago, BeastMaster64 said: What? \that how you think ramsay was behind pink letter. the 50000 clues must have have gone over your head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhalfgroat Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 12 hours ago, Jadakiss said: 19 hours ago, BeastMaster64 said: Yes but there is no way in hell that Stannis army which is out of food will skipp Winterfell, turn around and walk 1000000000 miles back to take the useless Dreadfort. You realize how stupid this theory is right? jesus you are missing so much you keep talking about clues, how even 2nd graders can see them, and implying that if people were intelligent they would agree with you. so how about some facts to backup any of these claims? it's a discussion board, let's have a discussion and debate the textual evidence. so please, explain how Stannis is getting to the Dreadfort without food, and don't just tell me to check out a theory by cantuse. you're the one on here making claims, lets see you argue the validity of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywater-Watch Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 16 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said: I believe I do. But whoever it is. The Manderlys aren't going to switch sides publicly while Wyman remains back in Winterfell. The switching has to be without the Boltons' knowledge and they will continue the subterfuge until they are back in Winterfell. Else Wyman is a (flayed) dead man. You have a point there. So, the Pink Letter leaves Roose Bolton believe the battle had been won, Manderlys and Stannis men (maybe disguised in Frey garment) knock on the doors of Winterfell; when these havebeen opened, Dreadfort men are overwhelmed by surprise and the remaining Northmen in Winterfell join Stannis' & Manderly forces at once as they are informed of Wyman Manderly's plot. Is that how you think it could turn out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 10 hours ago, Jadakiss said: \that how you think ramsay was behind pink letter. the 50000 clues must have have gone over your head Wait what? I think Stannis wrote the pink letter do you think Ramsay did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Are there also not theories which are suggesting there is a part of Manderly's forces outside of Winterfell? We do know Manderly has been raising an army, he told he was able to raise the biggest host of all the people above the Neck, ... And then you also have the fact Robett Glover is outside of Winterfell, a very likely candidate for commanding a secret White Harbor Host I actually think Wyman doesn't really care about his own life anymore. He feels his body is a prison. He looks very ill. So maybe he is planning to sacrifice himself so that he gets what he wants which is 1° revenge, 2° being a lead figure in the Stark's restoration would have as result that the position of his family in the north gets very strengthened, 3° Stark back as the leader in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fattest Leech Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 16 hours ago, Tijgy said: Are there also not theories which are suggesting there is a part of Manderly's forces outside of Winterfell? We do know Manderly has been raising an army, he told he was able to raise the biggest host of all the people above the Neck, ... And then you also have the fact Robett Glover is outside of Winterfell, a very likely candidate for commanding a secret White Harbor Host I actually think Wyman doesn't really care about his own life anymore. He feels his body is a prison. He looks very ill. So maybe he is planning to sacrifice himself so that he gets what he wants which is 1° revenge, 2° being a lead figure in the Stark's restoration would have as result that the position of his family in the north gets very strengthened, 3° Stark back as the leader in the North. I very, very much agree that Wyman could be sacrificing himself in this situation for just the reasons you mentioned. All of it One of the things that started me thinking this was when I was first reading Wyman's conversation with Davos, Wyman sorta complained a lot about his body and health. To me, this always sounded as a confessional in many ways that he was going to Winterfell with this plan and also full well knowing he could be killed, but to him it would be a sacrifice: My body has become a prison more dire than the Wolf's Den. Even so, I must go to Winterfell. Roose Bolton wants me on my knees, and beneath the velvet courtesy he shows the iron mail. She remembered a tale she had heard from Old Nan, about how sometimes during a long winter men who'd lived beyond their years would announce that they were going hunting. And their daughters would weep and their sons would turn their faces to the fire, she could hear Old Nan saying, but no one would stop them, or ask what game they meant to hunt, with the snows so deep and the cold wind howling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 7 hours ago, Greywater-Watch said: You have a point there. So, the Pink Letter leaves Roose Bolton believe the battle had been won, Manderlys and Stannis men (maybe disguised in Frey garment) knock on the doors of Winterfell; when these havebeen opened, Dreadfort men are overwhelmed by surprise and the remaining Northmen in Winterfell join Stannis' & Manderly forces at once as they are informed of Wyman Manderly's plot. Is that how you think it could turn out? It could play out like that. Or it could play out quite differently. But whichever way it goes I firmly believe that the subterfuge element will remain as far as the Manderly's are concerned, until they are back in Winterfell. Declaring themselves as Stannis's allies doesn't really help while Roose is still holed up in Winterfell. The Dreadfort withstood a two year siege a thousand years ago. Winterfell is presumably an even stronger castle than the Dreadfort. It doesn't help the Manderlys to declare Roose their enemy while he remains behind Winterfell's walls. If they are going to turn against him in unexpected fashion, do so while you are inside the Walls, rather than losing ten times as many men trying to storm those 100 foot tall fortifications from the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myhalfgroat Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I definitely agree that Manderly is on a suicide mission. what I'm not sure of is who he's focused on taking down with him. the Freys seem to be the ones he holds most accountable for the death of his son and the red wedding. so will it be worth it for him to attack the Freys once they are approaching Stannis. then hope to crush them completely? or will he hold off and let the Freys fight but not engage one way or the other? the theory that I find most plausible is that the Freys are the vanguard and fall through the ice and Manderly's forces mop up the rest of them. Stannis sees he has an ally and they plot to get into Winterfell by having the Manderly's come back with Stannis's sword as proof of his defeat. after being admitted, Manderly either opens the gates or gives access to Stannis. that seems the most likely, but I hope there are a few more layers to it. maybe it's just because Dance has been out so long now but I don't like this theory nearly as much as I once did. it'll be nice if we get a surprise from George but (with the huge fandom and all the time in between the books) I think about every angle has been explored in one theory or another. either way, I'm digging how ballsy Wyman is. and the Frey pies after a parting gift is just great, sweet revenge while honoring the customs that they Freys broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.