Jadakiss Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 So yes he will support stannis if Davos comes back with Rickon. Lets say Davos does come back, that will take awhile, and longer for word to reach Manderly..... lets say he doesn't come back, would he still help the boltons whom he hates? The battle is coming up very soon, there is no way he can expect to get rickon back and know about it. So confused what he will want to do, he is marching out the gate with his army....will he help stannis or just sit back and have stannis battle with the freys? The battle is very close to happening and he has to know rickon wont be back before it happens. Would he want to take the risk of stannis losing by not joining the fight? Really not sure what his plans for battle of ice are going to be, stannis thinks he is a traitor as well, not sure how much he could even help at first, or what he can do to better his revenge situation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo-knight Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Wyman's already turned his cloak to Stannis. He just said that as his price to Davos, who he probably read pretty quickly as a leal Hand who'd to anything for Stannis. The Battle in the Snow will probably see the Manderly force suddenly stop advancing (right in time to miss a lake covered in ice and snow) and either being "neutral" or actively flying Bolton banners. Stannis will likely embrace Wyman, because even if he doesn't trust or believe him, Manderly offers Roose a real chance to take Winterfell by subterfuge as is his plan - namely, by killing every last Frey and returning "victorious" with Stannis' sword and getting a chance to have the gates of Winterfell simply open for him when his army appears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Well, he's not accompanying his soldiers out of Winterfell. He was last seen on the floor of the great hall with several of his chins slashed open by Hosteen, and he's an old man too fat to actually sit on a horse, so travel through the snow storm (difficult for experienced riders) is probably out of the question. So that leaves him alone, without his bodyguards, with significant wounds, being tended to by Roose's healers. In an earlier chapter Roose and Ramsay discuss how they know Wyman is plotting betrayal, and now they have the perfect chance to quietly dispose of him (and scapegoat the Freys even more). That said, I imagine his underlings will know enough to switch sides, given they handled the three Freys and Wyman wouldn't have them dying to keep Roose in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Wyman Manderly is in a kamikaze mission. That's why Roose looked scared during one of the quarrels with the Freys, he always assumed that Wyman will act rationally but he is not and he will do as much damage as he can. It's the same with Whorebane Umber. Still Wyman Manderly left behind White Harbor as the most potent military in the north in command of his son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Vance II Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 I don't think Manderly is counting on Davos. Him showing up was just a nice turn of events, surely he could have sent nearly anyone to get Rickon if it was THAT important to him. Stannis provides him with a side to join that isn't a bunch of dead people. Wyman's speech to Davos in the Wolf's Den makes it sound like the die had already been cast and he was ready to turn on the Bolton/Frey alliance ASAP. Besides the obvious desire for revenge for his son, I think Wyman is essentially taking up the mantle of responsibility in the Starks place. As he says, his army is the strongest remaining in the North and he's the only one strong enough to lead a revolt. The Manderlys also owe more to the Starks than other houses, as Wyla goes on about, so I don't see any scenario where the Merman sits idle and watches the Wolf go down. But to answer the question better, I think his forces going to meet Stannis already have their orders to make sure the Freys don't make it back. When the combined Stannis/Manderly forces reach the castle, Manderly men will open the gates. 3 hours ago, The Drunkard said: So that leaves him alone, without his bodyguards, with significant wounds, being tended to by Roose's healers. Surely Wyman brought his own attendants with him. He goes nowhere quickly, why leave them behind? And if he's plotting I don't think he would leave himself alone in the enemys castle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Drunkard Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 4 minutes ago, Lord Vance II said: Surely Wyman brought his own attendants with him. He goes nowhere quickly, why leave them behind? And if he's plotting I don't think he would leave himself alone in the enemys castle. By alone I mean without anyone to defend him. His knights and guards were ordered out to fight Stannis while he was left in the care of one of Roose's maesters, and whatever servants he brought aren't in a position to resist Roose in any sort of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mormont Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 I am not sure if Wyman gave his men any instructions to turn on the Boltons and Freys and side with Stannis, there wasn't any time. And remember how cautious he was when he met Davos after releasing him, he said that he doesn't trust some of his own men. So any plans of betrayal would most likely be kept to himself until the time was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 Are Robett and Wylis still in White Harbor? Hasn't sufficient time passed for Davos to return with Rickon? (He was given his dispatch in Dance 29, more than 40 chapters ago.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 It has been suggested before that the Hooded Man could have been there to inform Manderly that Davos has been recovered, or that Umber blew his horns for the same reason. The Umbers worked with the Manderlys to build longships to deal with the wildlings so they have definitely been in contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 22 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said: It has been suggested before that the Hooded Man could have been there to inform Manderly that Davos has been recovered, or that Umber blew his horns for the same reason. The Umbers worked with the Manderlys to build longships to deal with the wildlings so they have definitely been in contact. I think Umber was signaling the Mance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clegane'sPup Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 I’m thinkin’ this is where theories collide. Which POV, Asha or Theon is going to talk about what happens at the crofter’s village? Which POV is gonna talk about what is happening at or in WF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said: I think Umber was signaling the Mance. Can you elaborate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fossoway Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 So if Wyman abruptly dies from Hosteen attack in Winterfell, what then? Who's his second in command? Wyman cannot possibly ride out with his knights, even with his neck intact. His appearance and looks were already ill when he met Davos. He must have told the plan of action to anyone who can, err, move more freely than him. I mean, I hope so. I don't think that even the clever Wyman was expecting his neck being slashed during dinner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadakiss Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 2 hours ago, King Merrett I Frey said: So if Wyman abruptly dies from Hosteen attack in Winterfell, what then? Who's his second in command? Wyman cannot possibly ride out with his knights, even with his neck intact. His appearance and looks were already ill when he met Davos. He must have told the plan of action to anyone who can, err, move more freely than him. I mean, I hope so. I don't think that even the clever Wyman was expecting his neck being slashed during dinner. Thats a 10000% given. He wouldn't risk nor be dumb enough to hold the plan to just himself. Its obvious some of his knights know as well and obvious that they hate the freys do to the fight they had. And the result will just have them hated more off topic- many people think Stannis is going after winterfell first. which is false he is going to be getting into the dreadfort Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingMance Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, Jadakiss said: off topic- many people think Stannis is going after winterfell first. which is false he is going to be getting into the dreadfort Did I miss something? I thought he was within a few leagues of Winterfell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadakiss Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, KingMance said: Did I miss something? I thought he was within a few leagues of Winterfell You should really read cantuses manifesto and some of the other threads here. It is a very popular assumption (based on tons of evidence) That Stannis will be going for the dread fort instead. It has more food, its boltons seat, he can leave a trap, and by being lord of dreadfort maester tybald the maester that roose trusts can lead him into a trap etc. its like pages of stuff to go over, but WF is more of a false flag attack him going onto WF is what he wants people to think, just as the Karstarks and maester tybald reported to roose, now stannis has the upper hand and an even higher upper hand that he is faking his own death, which is already a given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Melnibonean Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Sure. Stannis's army is starving to the point of canibalism. They have few mounts remaining. And the snow is as high as an elephant's eye. The enemy holds a defensive fortification. So, what's Stannis's next move? A forced march on another castle leaving the enemy to harry his rear and smash those who survive against the walls of the Dreadfort. Good strategy, dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadakiss Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Sure. Stannis's army is starving to the point of canibalism. They have few mounts remaining. And the snow is as high as an elephant's eye. The enemy holds a defensive fortification. So, what's Stannis's next move? A forced march on another castle leaving the enemy to harry his rear and smash those who survive against the walls of the Dreadfort. Good strategy, dude. They will be fine once they get the freys baggage trains. there is about 50 clues that point to that as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadakiss Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said: Sure. Stannis's army is starving to the point of canibalism. They have few mounts remaining. And the snow is as high as an elephant's eye. The enemy holds a defensive fortification. So, what's Stannis's next move? A forced march on another castle leaving the enemy to harry his rear and smash those who survive against the walls of the Dreadfort. Good strategy, dude. He is not dumb enough to storm either castle. It will be done through trickery, the reason mance and his woman are asking theon for a way out etc....... fat as dread fort he will have karstark men who will follow stannis orders because heholds all their kin hostage. Dreadfort will see the Karstarks, and maester tybald, and they will be let in etc much more to it but its a basic out line stannis isnt going to just storm some castle in the winter and play the siege game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velo-knight Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 If he's in a position to take the Dreadfort via guile, he can take Winterfell, too. If the Manderly men bend the knee - a good chance - than he can have them return with his sword, some "captives", and - if Theon or Asha or someone Stannis already plans on killing is executed without burning - the bodies of one of Stannis' prisoners, killed by <Stannis before they arrived / in battle / them, to prove their loyalty to Roose>. Stannis could be in a position to pull a Tywin Lannister and sack Winterfell by having his men walk right past the open door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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