Stannis is the man....nis Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Ok a bit of an old topic for a rant but I've had it on my chest for too long so Rickon, Osha leave for Last Hearth at the end of season 3 from a place called the Gift which according to the map is near Last Hearth. So just based on passage of time and distance they had to of reached Smalljon around season 4 before Mance's attack and on top of that had to be there throughout S5 so what the hell were they doing that whole time? Did Smalljon just keep them locked in a dungeon throughout all of Season 5? What senses does that make? Between Sansa's marriage, Mance attack, and Stannis' attack on WF why would he feel the need to sit in LH with the heir to WF locked up? *A link to the map* http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/The_Gift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhollo Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 The explanation of course is, that the show doesn't care about consistent timelines. But there is quite an easy way to make sense of this particular case, I think. IIRC it is never mentioned when, where or how the Graetjon died. So they arrive at LH when the GJ is still alive. He is loyal to the Starks and keeps Rickon & Co hidden. Then he dies somewhere late S5 or early S6 and his son thinks "fuck the Starks" and that it is better to get into the Boltons good favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I think Rickon was probably growing up with the new little lord of last Hearth that will make an appearance this year. Shaggy with him and Osha may or may not have been fooling around with the recently deceased Lord Umber. So much for guest rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMario Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Do they even mention the GJ dying? I can't remember. I thought the actor pissed off the showrunners and he was basically just written out of the show. Not to give this show any credit, but playing devil's advocate, I guess it could be argued that at first, SmallJon protected them and actually treated them as proper guests when they first arrived. Maybe keeping Rickon hidden until the proper time? But for some reason, SJ thought the Boltons would be their best bet and eventually just took Rickon prisoner. But that opens up a whole can of worms on why SJ only revealed Rickon to Ramsay and not to Roose while he was alive. And again, since the GJ was never really mentioned, what ultimately caused SJ to turn against the Starks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Le Cygne Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 It makes no sense. And I was so disappointed, because I love the actor who plays Osha. GRRM said he'd expand her role in the books, and they seem to have cut what was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhollo Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 39 minutes ago, SuperMario said: Do they even mention the GJ dying? I can't remember. Smalljon says to Ramsay that his father "did him the favor" to die before he had to take care of that himself, just as Ramsay did. No further details, but that sounds like he passed away rather recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMario Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, Rhollo said: Smalljon says to Ramsay that his father "did him the favor" to die before he had to take care of that himself, just as Ramsay did. No further details, but that sounds like he passed away rather recently. That's right. Forgot about that line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Matthis Light Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I always assumed he died at the Red Wedding( Great Jon ) and Small Jon kept Rickon at Last Hearth, weighting his options on what to do with him. Then when he got news on how Jon let the Wildlings through the Wall, he decided to join the Boltons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bear Who Knocks Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Derping around probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfOfWinter Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Osha and Rickon both looked shocked at the betrayal, so I don't think they spent all that time locked up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCasualObserver Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Didn't the Greatjon die at the Red Wedding on the show? If not, he happened to die in the months before season 6, his son had no loyalty to the starks and no hate for the Boltons and decided to turn them over. Yet another coincidence in Ramsay's favor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TepidHands Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 12/15/2016 at 8:54 AM, Rhollo said: Smalljon says to Ramsay that his father "did him the favor" to die before he had to take care of that himself, just as Ramsay did. No further details, but that sounds like he passed away rather recently. Yeah, with kinslaying being all the rage in Westeros now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Deleted] Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 12/15/2016 at 10:13 PM, Le Cygne said: It makes no sense. And I was so disappointed, because I love the actor who plays Osha. GRRM said he'd expand her role in the books, and they seem to have cut what was there. I see what you did there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalerionTheCat Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I'm bothered they killed Rickon. While I believe he may live, and must have some purpose, in the books. Maybe to be Winterfell's heir. What he did during S4&5, I don't care. He was either a guest or a prisoner at LH, kept secret, until after Stannis' defeat. Definitely not like in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyman Manderly's Meat Pies Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 The whole situation is dumb and makes no sense. The North was a mess this year. I refuse to believe that the Greatjon could raise someone who'd even think of betraying Rickon like that. Given that everything else in that reddit leak was true, it sucks that D&D make decisions like that because "Seeing Tormund fight Smalljon would look cool." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 You know, is it not a plot hole, that the Umbers never helped Jon and the Night's watch when Maester Aemon sent out ravens imploring the realm for help and that an approaching horde was on their way to the Wall. Stannis saved them and then no one helped him after he saved the North. If it bothered the Umbers so damn bad and they had 2-3 k to send to fight along the Boltons, one would think they would have send aid to the Wall. A plot hole I say as they used the Wildings as an excuse to join the Boltons and betray Rickon, Osha and slaughter Shaggy Dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 On 1/15/2017 at 6:59 PM, A Ghost of Someone said: You know, is it not a plot hole, that the Umbers never helped Jon and the Night's watch when Maester Aemon sent out ravens imploring the realm for help and that an approaching horde was on their way to the Wall. Stannis saved them and then no one helped him after he saved the North. If it bothered the Umbers so damn bad and they had 2-3 k to send to fight along the Boltons, one would think they would have send aid to the Wall. A plot hole I say as they used the Wildings as an excuse to join the Boltons and betray Rickon, Osha and slaughter Shaggy Dog. Yes. I noticed that problem when it first happened I brought it up on a thread under S6 when ranting on the North plotline. We have in S5 the Northerners giving Stannis and the NW the finger then come back in S6 but their motivations for their actions in 6 should of lead to them joining Stannis and Jon in S5. So in other words "creatively it made sense because we wanted it to happened" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Another f/ up with plot logic. The umbers never had to reclaim The Last Hearth from The Ironborn, so they have no excuse in refusing the watch help in repelling the Wildings, only to violate guest rights and side with the Bolton's because the Wildings were south of the wall as refugees, not invaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Bong of Ice and Fire Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Smalljon made it clear that there were too many wildlings in the North now for the Umbers to fight off alone. So he had to come to the Boltons for help. The price he paid for the help was giving up Rickon. He made a calculation in his own self-interest. After Robb's screw-ups, a lot of Northern lords weren't feeling too loyal to the Starks anymore (what was left of them), as Lord Glover made clear to Sansa and Jon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis is the man....nis Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 12 hours ago, A Bong of Ice and Fire said: Smalljon made it clear that there were too many wildlings in the North now for the Umbers to fight off alone. So he had to come to the Boltons for help. The price he paid for the help was giving up Rickon. He made a calculation in his own self-interest. After Robb's screw-ups, a lot of Northern lords weren't feeling too loyal to the Starks anymore (what was left of them), as Lord Glover made clear to Sansa and Jon. So again like Ghost points out why sit out the Mace invasion or not help Stannis who stopped a wildling invasion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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