What the Heck Happened to Baby Maegor?

[estermonty python]

I dearly apologize if this has been addressed before, but as long as we are in the business of tracking missing Targs, what the heck ever happened to Maegor, the infant son of Aerion Brightflame and Aegon V's nephew?  Once the infant lost out on the kingship to Aegon, he completely disappears from the story - we don't even get a HINT of what happened to him.  Here's what we know:

• He is 1/4 Arryn, on his mother's side,, and 1/8 Martell, on his father's side
• If he were still alive, he'd be 5 years older than Barristan Selmy.

That's it.  That's everything we know.  So what happened to him?  There are basically four possibilities:

1. He died at Summerhall.  This would be an easy way to tie up that loose end, although it seems very odd for Aegon V to keep his nephew at court, when Maegor has a superior claim to the throne.
2. Someone had the infant killed.  Possibly Aegon V, but supremely unlikely, based on what we know.  Possibly Bloodraven, but I'm not sure when or how he would have pulled that off, having been imprisoned almost immediately upon Aegon V taking power.  
3. GRRM just forgot about him because he isn't important.  
4. He was fostered and raised at court, but he was not raised a Targaryen, so he has no idea of his own claim.

Do we know any men in King's Landing with unclear lineage who look to be about 5 years older than Barristan Selmy?  I can only think of one: Rennifer Longwaters (having "a drop of dragon blood" would be a nice irony and the understatement of all time!).  Can anyone think of any others, or am I thinking too much about this?

[Lord Varys]

He married a princess of the Summer Isles and still hangs out there, surrounded by his grandchildren and great-grandchildren, enjoying the warmth.

We have no idea. But the best idea is that he is just dead. He could have died infancy, shortly after the Great Council. He could have died in childhood. He could have died as a youth. He could have died at Summerhall.

I once suggested that he might be the Tattered Prince, suggesting that perhaps his mother Daenora had married into a Pentoshi noble family getting her son adopted by her second husband but that doesn't exactly fit the age of the Tattered Prince (although it is a fun idea).

Rennifer Longwaters is a descendant of Princess Elaena and Alyn Velaryon, through one of their bastards.

I guess we might eventually learn what happened to him.

[Isobel Harper]

2 hours ago, estermonty python said:

I dearly apologize if this has been addressed before, but as long as we are in the business of tracking missing Targs, what the heck ever happened to Maegor, the infant son of Aerion Brightflame and Aegon V's nephew?  Once the infant lost out on the kingship to Aegon, he completely disappears from the story - we don't even get a HINT of what happened to him.  Here's what we know:

• He is 1/4 Arryn, on his mother's side, and 1/8 Martell, on his father's side
• If he were still alive, he'd be 5 years older than Barristan Selmy.

That's it.  That's everything we know.  So what happened to him?  There are basically four possibilities:

1. He died at Summerhall.  This would be an easy way to tie up that loose end, although it seems very odd for Aegon V to keep his nephew at court, when Maegor has a superior claim to the throne.
2. Someone had the infant killed.  Possibly Aegon V, but supremely unlikely, based on what we know.  Possibly Bloodraven, but I'm not sure when or how he would have pulled that off, having been imprisoned almost immediately upon Aegon V taking power.  
3. GRRM just forgot about him because he isn't important.  
4. He was fostered and raised at court, but he was not raised a Targaryen, so he has no idea of his own claim.

Do we know any men in King's Landing with unclear lineage who look to be about 5 years older than Barristan Selmy?  I can only think of one: Rennifer Longwaters (having "a drop of dragon blood" would be a nice irony and the understatement of all time!).  Can anyone think of any others, or am I thinking too much about this?

Maegor's grandmother was Alys Arryn  (not Jon Arryn's sister).  She could have very well taken Maegor under her wing after his father's death and his disinheritance.  We truly hear nothing about him after the Great Council, but, if Maegor was fostered in the Vale, we might learn something of his fate in Winds via a Sansa POV chapter. 

[Shuvuuia]

3 hours ago, estermonty python said:

• He is 1/4 Arryn, on his mother's side,, and 1/8 Martell, on his father's side
• If he were still alive, he'd be 5 years older than Barristan Selmy.

 

He would also be part Dayne...so...was Darkstar suggested as his something? Darkstar, Brightflame (i don't believe it myself)

[estermonty python]

22 minutes ago, Shuvuuia said:

He would also be part Dayne...so...was Darkstar suggested as his something? Darkstar, Brightflame (i don't believe it myself)

How would he be part Dayne?

[estermonty python]

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I once suggested that he might be the Tattered Prince, suggesting that perhaps his mother Daenora had married into Pentoshi noble family getting her son adopted by her second husband but that doesn't exactly fit the age of the Tattered Prince (although it is a fun idea).

That's a VERY fun idea.  It almost fits - all I can remember is that Tatters is "well past 60" - is there some other text that definitely puts him in his early 60s, rather than, specifically, 66 or 67?  He also served with the Second Sons for a minute if I'm remembering correctly, which also counts Maegor's father Aerion among its former members.  It would be fun if the fact that he refuses to give his real name is somehow RELEVANT to the story.

[Isobel Harper]

18 minutes ago, estermonty python said:

How would he be part Dayne?

Aerion’s mother was Dyanna Dayne, making Maegor 1/4 Dayne.  It's possible that Maegor had a daughter, who later married into House Dayne, otherwise Darkstar would still have the Targaryen name. 

[estermonty python]

28 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

Aerion’s mother was Dyanna Dayne, making Maegor 1/4 Dayne.  It's possible that Maegor had a daughter, who later married into House Dayne, otherwise Darkstar would still have the Targaryen name. 

Huh.  You're totally right re: Dayne ancestry.  I don't really buy that Maegor was bopping around Westeros as an openly disinherited Targ, but that's really interesting!

[Shuvuuia]

1 hour ago, Isobel Harper said:

Aerion’s mother was Dyanna Dayne, making Maegor 1/4 Dayne.  It's possible that Maegor had a daughter, who later married into House Dayne, otherwise Darkstar would still have the Targaryen name. 

or Maegor had a semi-secret or rumoured affair with his Dayne cousin's wife, if we go full crackpot.

I think people have pointed some similarities in the descriptions between Darkstar and Aerion, but i'm not sure whether that were intentional similarities or not. 

[J. Stargaryen]

I love that Aerion named his son Maegor. Because of course he would. There's a theory out there positing that fAegon is not just a Blackfyre, but a Brightfyre, also being a descendant of Aerion Brightflame. - The Brightfyre Theory

[Lord Varys]

The problem with tying Maegor into Aegon's parentage is that it overly convoluted and very hard to sell. The man would have to be either Illyrio's or Varys' (or Serra's, if she ever existed) father, considering his age. Keep in mind that the man would have been barely 27 at Summerhall.

It would be very hard to hide if Varys or Illyrio had a Targaryen father.

In addition, there is most likely a reason why George gave Daemon Blackfyre seven sons and an unspecified number of daughters. That makes for a very complicated family tree and should enable some female branches to disappear from the radar of the Iron Throne.

But Aegon V most definitely would have kept an eye on his nephew Maegor had the boy lived, and Jaehaerys II and Aerys II would have done so, too. If the man held any grudges against the branch of Aegon V they would have been very wary of any attempts from that side to reclaim the throne that was withheld from him.

[J. Stargaryen]

It's more convoluted than the normal Blackfyre theories, but that's not really a disqualifier. GRRM very well may have been aiming for that level of complexity. There are possible hints that seem to point towards a connection between Aerion and Varys, (though they could be misinterpreted of course). Take that in combination with the dangling thread about Aerion's son, and/or possible bastards from Lys and there might be something there.

It seems to be a relatively popular theory among hardcore fans--I've seen it mentioned on twitter and reddit, for example--so I thought I'd mention it here.

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 hours ago, Shuvuuia said:

He would also be part Dayne...so...was Darkstar suggested as his something? Darkstar, Brightflame (i don't believe it myself)

Oh Man! I though I had another one. Here's the theory. 

[Maxxine]

Wow this interesting & full of possibilities. My gut says that GRRM just forgot about him. But that doesn't mean he can't do something with him now & make him somehow relevant. I like the Tattered Prince idea. Makes him more relevant & not as much as a random extra. Plus the name would fit too. I guess the age thing could be an issue. But the TL in this series is convoluted & fuzzy anyway so I wouldn't be hurt if his age is off by a few years

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 hours ago, J. Stargaryen said:

I love that Aerion named his son Maegor. Because of course he would. There's a theory out there positing that fAegon is not just a Blackfyre, but a Brightfyre, also being a descendant of Aerion Brightflame. - The Brightfyre Theory

When @Veltigar and others were developing that theory, we did not even know Maegor's name, and IIRC, an important reason for the link between Serra and Aerion was the idea that Maegor's mum might have been Lyseni, and that Maegor might have been raised in Lys. Of course, that idea did not survive The World of Ice and Fire. Anothet idea that Aerion left behind a bastard survives. 

We did learn this about Lyseni bedslaves...

Quote

The Lyseni are also great breeders of slaves, mating beauty with beauty in hopes of producing ever more refined and lovely courtesans and bedslaves. The blood of Valyria still runs strong in Lys, where even the smallfolk oft boast pale skin, silver-gold hair, and the purple, lilac, and pale blue eyes of the dragonlords of old. The Lysene nobility values purity of blood above all and have produced many famous (and infamous) beauties. Even the Targaryen kings and princes of old sometimes turned to Lys in search of wives and paramours, for their blood as for their beauty.

So, it seems to me the author was suggesting that Serra was one of these Targalikes. 

[JLE]

Also: If Aerion's legitimate son has had descendants, then any surviving descendants (or, at least, any in the male line, given tradition Westerosi misogyny and particularly Targaryen misogyny) will be able to claim that they have a better claim to the Westeros throne than EITHER Daenerys or Jon Snow - regardless of any controversy over whether the latter is either (a) legitimate because Targaryens Get To Do Bigamy, despite a war having been fought *against* the idea that nothing the king/royalty do can be declared illegal, and the "divine right" Targaryens lost that war: or (b) legitmized in secret because Rhaegar left behind documents declaring Jon as officially adopted into legitimacy (which would leave a whole lot less doubt over the matter, since this at least is a precedent that other lords have followed on occasion with their bastard sons, and had it accepted.)

[Lord Varys]

59 minutes ago, J. Stargaryen said:

It's more convoluted than the normal Blackfyre theories, but that's not really a disqualifier. GRRM very well may have been aiming for that level of complexity. There are possible hints that seem to point towards a connection between Aerion and Varys, (though they could be misinterpreted of course). Take that in combination with the dangling thread about Aerion's son, and/or possible bastards from Lys and there might be something there.

It seems to be a relatively popular theory among hardcore fans--I've seen it mentioned on twitter and reddit, for example--so I thought I'd mention it here.

Yeah, the whole thing goes back to THK and the idea that there might be bastards of Aerion's in Lys. People have been looking for hidden Targaryens since the 1990s.

But then, George was once even asked about that possibility, and casually agreed that there might be such bastards - but there might also be bastards of many Targaryen princes and kings running around. We know Aegon II had at least two. Nobody is searching for their descendants.

The important part there is that there are possibly four male and an unknown number of female branches of House Blackfyre. Varys and Illyrio could easily enough be cousins from two branches of the Blackfyre family tree.

With the rise of the Blackfyres the chances that the Targaryens have anything to do with Varys and Illyrio grow less likely.

And that fixation on Aerion and Maegor is really kind of odd considering that we also know nothing about the whereabouts of Maegor's mother, Princess Daenora, Daeron's daughter Princess Vaella, or the descendants of Egg's sisters (I assume one of them married into House Tarth but we know both of them had offspring).

Vaella and Daenora and Daella and Rhae are all much older than Maegor, and thus much more likely to be able have children who have grandchildren who might be connected to Varys and Illyrio.

Prince Maegor could very well be as much a dead as Egg's third son, Prince Daeron, was. And if this Maegor is more than just an obscure footnote in the story he might be involved in one of the many rebellions Aegon V faced during his reign only to meet an ignominious end before he got any chance to breed.

I assume Varys has at least to be in his twenties by the time Aerys II hires him after Duskendale. That would put his birth in the late 250s or so. Maegor would have to be his father - he could only be his grandfather if he began fathering children as early as Viserys II.

And since I see no reason to doubt the idea that Varys began his life as a slave I doubt he was Maegor's son. Even if the man rebelled against Aegon V (which I don't really believe) I don't see Egg blaming the son for his father's deeds. He would have raised Varys at court, not sold him into slavery.

On the other hand, we hear about infighting between the Blackfyres at some point after Bittersteel's death. Maelys killed his cousin Daemon Blackfyre and we don't know what happened to his family. Neither do we know what happened to Aenys Blackfyre's family after the man was killed by Bloodraven. Nor have we any idea what the Blackfyre daughters (aside from Calla, possibly) did. And there is very likely a reason why the Blackfyre family wasn't really investigated in TWoIaF. We only got the names of the pretenders, and little else.

In addition, there is this odd remark of Yandel's that the branches of House Targaryen were cut down at Summerhall. Now, Prince Duncan's branch was no longer eligible to inherit the throne so they wouldn't have been important. Daeron had already died childless. Rhaelle's son was a Baratheon, and the Tarths aren't Targaryens, either. The only other male Targaryen branch aside from Aegon V's own descendants would have been Maegor's, suggesting that he and his children might have died at Summerhall.

And we have a serious problem on the motivational side - why the hell should Maegor's son make common cause with a Blackfyre? Presumably Prince Aerion played a rather decisive role in crushing the Third Blackfyre Rebellion in 219 AC.

[Ser Joe of Generic Hall]

I was always curious about the fate of Aerion's family.  I have previously flirted with the idea that Varys was descended from this line. I wouldn't be surprised if Aegon was from either Daemon or Aerion's line.

The Brightfyre theory would certainly make fAegon a sort of poetic amalgamation of Henry Tudor and Perkin Warbeck all in one. 

[J. Stargaryen]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

And we have a serious problem on the motivational side - why the hell should Maegor's son make common cause with a Blackfyre? Presumably Prince Aerion played a rather decisive role in crushing the Third Blackfyre Rebellion in 219 AC.

That could provide the motive right there. Aerion helped to defeat the Blackfyres and his son was passed over. Not much of a reward.

[Lost Melnibonean]

50 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Yeah, the whole thing goes back to THK and the idea that there might be bastards of Aerion's in Lys. People have been looking for hidden Targaryens since the 1990s.

But then, George was once even asked about that possibility, and casually agreed that there might be such bastards - but there might also be bastards of many Targaryen princes and kings running around. We know Aegon II had at least two. Nobody is searching for their descendants.

The important part there is that there are possibly four male and an unknown number of female branches of House Blackfyre. Varys and Illyrio could easily enough be cousins from two branches of the Blackfyre family tree.

With the rise of the Blackfyres the chances that the Targaryens have anything to do with Varys and Illyrio grow less likely.

And that fixation on Aerion and Maegor is really kind of odd considering that we also know nothing about the whereabouts of Maegor's mother, Princess Daenora, Daeron's daughter Princess Vaella, or the descendants of Egg's sisters (I assume one of them married into House Tarth but we know both of them had offspring).

Vaella and Daenora and Daella and Rhae are all much older than Maegor, and thus much more likely to be able have children who have grandchildren who might be connected to Varys and Illyrio.

Prince Maegor could very well be as much a dead as Egg's third son, Prince Daeron, was. And if this Maegor is more than just an obscure footnote in the story he might be involved in one of the many rebellions Aegon V faced during his reign only to meet an ignominious end before he got any chance to breed.

I assume Varys has at least to be in his twenties by the time Aerys II hires him after Duskendale. That would put his birth in the late 250s or so. Maegor would have to be his father - he could only be his grandfather if he began fathering children as early as Viserys II.

And since I see no reason to doubt the idea that Varys began his life as a slave I doubt he was Maegor's son. Even if the man rebelled against Aegon V (which I don't really believe) I don't see Egg blaming the son for his father's deeds. He would have raised Varys at court, not sold him into slavery.

On the other hand, we hear about infighting between the Blackfyres at some point after Bittersteel's death. Maelys killed his cousin Daemon Blackfyre and we don't know what happened to his family. Neither do we know what happened to Aenys Blackfyre's family after the man was killed by Bloodraven. Nor have we any idea what the Blackfyre daughters (aside from Calla, possibly) did. And there is very likely a reason why the Blackfyre family wasn't really investigated in TWoIaF. We only got the names of the pretenders, and little else.

In addition, there is this odd remark of Yandel's that the branches of House Targaryen were cut down at Summerhall. Now, Prince Duncan's branch was no longer eligible to inherit the throne so they wouldn't have been important. Daeron had already died childless. Rhaelle's son was a Baratheon, and the Tarths aren't Targaryens, either. The only other male Targaryen branch aside from Aegon V's own descendants would have been Maegor's, suggesting that he and his children might have died at Summerhall.

And we have a serious problem on the motivational side - why the hell should Maegor's son make common cause with a Blackfyre? Presumably Prince Aerion played a rather decisive role in crushing the Third Blackfyre Rebellion in 219 AC.

The fixation on Maegor is that he is a loose thread. The George needs to tie it off. 

Despite entertaining more convoluted theories, I agree that the most likely outcome for Maegor is death before offspring, or as you suggest, that he and his line were extinguished at Summerhall. 

And I also agree it is much more likely that Varys is just some seed of a Targaryen prince or the unfortunate son of a Blackfyre who died young than a descendant of Aerion.The reason to doubt that Varys was born a slave is that it came from Pycelle, who was trying to make your favorite eunuch look bad in the eyes of Eddard, whereas Varys himself tells Tyrion he was apprenticed as an orphan, suggesting someone paid his apprentice fee. He was sold later, but he wouldna be the first free boy sold into slavery. Whether we choose to believe one possibility doesn't eliminate the other possibility. 

And I also think it is much more likely that Varys is just some seed of a Targaryen prince or the unfortunate son of a Blackfyre who died young than a descendant of Aerion. 

As to possible motivations, Aerion fought Blackfyre before his infant son was passed over. Maegor could have grown to manhood resentful over having his birthright taken from him, and he could have passed on such resentment to his kids. 

Or not.