teej6 Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 58 minutes ago, Kingmonkey said: Luke Skywalker wanted to get it on with Princess Leia before finding out they were close relatives. I suspect this means Jon and Dany are destined to make the beast with two backs before he finds out he just bonked his auntie. Alternatively, it's Ned not Jon who's Luke here. Ned was a part of the rebellion against the evil empire with it's black armoured scion. So maybe Ned fell in love with his sister too, and hence the discussion of inbreeding. Targs did it, why not Starks too. Starkcest confirmed! Yeah, probably the former but it's so vague we can't conclude too much from it. Yeah it seems like Alfie Allen was rambling through some disjointed thoughts, and you are right we can't make any assumptions based on it. The second option you suggested is out of the question in my opinion, and I do hope it's not the first. If we are talking of Jon marrying a relative, I'd rather ship Jon and Arya (well that was GRRM's initial plan, granted probably not so anymore) than Jon and Dany. Besides Luke and Leia were brother and sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingmonkey Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 29 minutes ago, teej6 said: The second option you suggested is out of the question in my opinion, and I do hope it's not the first. If we are talking of Jon marrying a relative, I'd rather ship Jon and Arya (well that was GRRM's initial plan, granted probably not so anymore) than Jon and Dany. Besides Luke and Leia were brother and sister. Luke and Leia didn't get married, so it doesn't have to go that far. Anywhere between that and a bit of Jon/Dany flirting would fill the requirement. If they don't at least shag though it makes Allen's comments about inbreeding a bit odd, though. Luke and Leia being brother and sister is a good reason why the second option isn't out of the question, but there are plenty of others. I wouldn't call anything other than RLJ likely, but it does at least get over the essential "duh" test. By that I mean that any revelation has to make sense in hindsight. The reader, if they haven't guessed the correct answer yet, should have a "duh, why didn't I think of that" moment where that hindsight makes prior hints visible. I never get on with alt parentage hypotheses that require reading tiny hints right, because they could never have that impact on the reader. Starkcest may be a bit lacking in evidence, but it could certainly pass the duh test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bael's Bastard Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 On 4/3/2017 at 2:29 AM, Kingmonkey said: Starkcest may be a bit lacking in evidence, but it could certainly pass the duh test. Huh? How so? Incest between Ned and Lyanna would come completely out of left field and have no support leading up to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 16 hours ago, Bael's Bastard said: Huh? How so? Incest between Ned and Lyanna would come completely out of left field and have no support leading up to it. At the very least, it provides a strong motive for keeping Jon's true identity secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eilrach Dayne Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I was on board on the R+L= J until i saw this video from the Order of the Green Hand, check it out they make a lot of sense. I never truly believed Ned and 6 other average fighters could beat the 3 of the best fighters in the realm regardless of the numerical advantage, and the order of the green hand make a compeling argument with facts, I urge everyone interested to take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 28 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said: check it out they make a lot of sense. Actually they don't. For me they are among the worse theories out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 36 minutes ago, Eilrach Dayne said: I was on board on the R+L= J until i saw this video from the Order of the Green Hand, check it out they make a lot of sense. I never truly believed Ned and 6 other average fighters could beat the 3 of the best fighters in the realm regardless of the numerical advantage, and the order of the green hand make a compeling argument with facts, I urge everyone interested to take a look. A lot of strong talk and RLJ bashing, an incorrectly quoted interview, a strawman of an argument against the N+A issues which no-one ever claimed... that's not what I call a sound theory. Plus, the guys don't seem to know a thing about the SSMs, the whole lot of stuff from the books fly over their heads, as well (never figuring out that Lyanna was the KotLT, or that Ned's source Allyria is apparently a youngster), and some things are conveniently left out completely, like the contrast of the young Ned Dayne claiming a romance between N+A and Harwin denying its likelihood... sorry but I have no patience to listen to the whole crapload, it is one of the weakest "contestants" out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceFire125 Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 I love how new posters come here and post videos that they believe made more sense and thinking like the hardcore people here are just gonna be persuaded from the RLJ theory. I suggest newcomers consider the discussions and debate within the 163 versions of RLJ threads before spouting authoritative posts, i.e., certain channels making "compelling arguments with facts." LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrav Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 If it takes long, multi-part presentations just to establish that something is technically possible on a logistical level, it's a crap theory. This is literature - themes, symbols, and prior knowledge of characters actually matter. The fact that someone could have been in a place at a time holds little sway over 4000 pages of meticulously interwoven themes. Even in the worst case, I'd much sooner believe that GRRM wrote a logistical error rather than accidentally developing the RLJ related mythology/symbolism for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 Am I missing something? Wasn't R+L=J confirmed by HBO months ago? https://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/06/29/got-rlj-omg-wtf-yay/#.tnw_wm3H7zj1 Is it even possible the television series and the book series would diverge on this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgrav Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, Prof. Cecily said: Am I missing something? Wasn't R+L=J confirmed by HBO months ago? https://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/06/29/got-rlj-omg-wtf-yay/#.tnw_wm3H7zj1 Is it even possible the television series and the book series would diverge on this point? Well nothing outside the books and GRRM himself can confirm RLJ 100%, but it'd be quite a bit of egg on HBO's face if they messed up the series's central mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Cecily Posted April 10, 2017 Share Posted April 10, 2017 1 minute ago, cgrav said: Well nothing outside the books and GRRM himself can confirm RLJ 100%, but it'd be quite a bit of egg on HBO's face if they messed up the series's central mystery. A good point about the books and GRRM, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Ssssssh, that is 1) that we don't speak of, and 2) the show is just fanservicing and it is not the same as the books, yadda yadda yadda yadda. Some people just won't be convinced until GRRM spells it black on white, and after that they will say that he is fanservicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDanny Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 13 hours ago, Eilrach Dayne said: I was on board on the R+L= J until i saw this video from the Order of the Green Hand, check it out they make a lot of sense. I never truly believed Ned and 6 other average fighters could beat the 3 of the best fighters in the realm regardless of the numerical advantage, and the order of the green hand make a compeling argument with facts, I urge everyone interested to take a look. Except they are completely wrong on their facts! I only made it through the first part of the video and it is full of basic errors that stand out to anyone remotely conversant with the timeline. Putting out stuff like this only gets one laughed at by those who have looked at this question. One can make a case for Jon being Ned and Ashara's child, but this isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eilrach Dayne Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 9 hours ago, IceFire125 said: I love how new posters come here and post videos that they believe made more sense and thinking like the hardcore people here are just gonna be persuaded from the RLJ theory. I suggest newcomers consider the discussions and debate within the 163 versions of RLJ threads before spouting authoritative posts, i.e., certain channels making "compelling arguments with facts." LOL! Im sorry if i sounded authorative, I didnt intend to. I just thought it was a compeling argument and I did not read anything in this thread about that, maybe i missed it. My intent was not to persuade people that N+A= J was correct but see if anyone else thought it was possible. I still believe it is possible, but as other people stated we have to wait and see what Martin come up with. I appreciate people taking the time to respond for real, I know im new to the forums, but I enjoy the discussons, also I still dont have the hang of the threads im trying to keep up, I read so much in a short period of time I have to reread some and give it more thought, but it helps when people point out certain specifics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFDanny Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Eilrach Dayne said: Im sorry if i sounded authorative, I didnt intend to. I just thought it was a compeling argument and I did not read anything in this thread about that, maybe i missed it. My intent was not to persuade people that N+A= J was correct but see if anyone else thought it was possible. I still believe it is possible, but as other people stated we have to wait and see what Martin come up with. I appreciate people taking the time to respond for real, I know im new to the forums, but I enjoy the discussons, also I still dont have the hang of the threads im trying to keep up, I read so much in a short period of time I have to reread some and give it more thought, but it helps when people point out certain specifics. No problems. Welcome to the forums. While the video was bad, your participation here is not! All ideas are welcome as long as you back them up with your thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eilrach Dayne Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 11 minutes ago, SFDanny said: Except they are completely wrong on their facts! I only made it through the first part of the video and it is full of basic errors that stand out to anyone remotely conversant with the timeline. Putting out stuff like this only gets one laughed at by those who have looked at this question. One can make a case for Jon being Ned and Ashara's child, but this isn't it. Thank you for taking the time to answer, as many others on the thread agree with you I will look at the videos again and try to reread everything on this thread, I mighr be in the wrong but It made sense to me as a possibility not as a certainty. Im new to the forum but I enjoy reading and watching videos on theories. I was also convinced on R+L=J before i saw the order of the hand videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eilrach Dayne Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 18 minutes ago, SFDanny said: Except they are completely wrong on their facts! I only made it through the first part of the video and it is full of basic errors that stand out to anyone remotely conversant with the timeline. Putting out stuff like this only gets one laughed at by those who have looked at this question. One can make a case for Jon being Ned and Ashara's child, but this isn't it. I will reevaluate the theory itself, it seems like everyone here definately thinks R+L=J beyond a doubt, can you point me on the right direction for the Ned and Ashara child theory you speak of? is there a better explanation as to how it would be possible? I thought the video helped a lot. I must admit I only read the series once and that was a couple of years back, im currently rereading it, already at ACOK. Love these discussions though. Also I always hated the idea the 3 KG would loose to Ned and his companions, and this theory kind of gave me hope in that sense, might have jumped on the wagon to soon though. Thanks though for the insight. I know some people felt i sounded authoritative like if the theory was right and everything else was wrong, that was not my intention i just thought the possibility of it being true was compeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 Lol, you don't want to read everything, the first post should suffice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eilrach Dayne Posted April 11, 2017 Share Posted April 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, Ygrain said: Lol, you don't want to read everything, the first post should suffice thanks!! i read it briefly but did not see all the links it provided, im reading it all now though its really helpful!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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