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Corn as a foreshadowing?


Bonkers

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On my 7th-ish re-read I noticed something about the mention of corn that made me wonder whether GRRM inserts it as a signal that the character is about to have their fate changed completely, and start on their true path of destiny.

Bran often feeds corn to the ravens atop the tower which he then gets thrown off, thus beginning his true purposeful journey. 

Arya passes corn, wheat barley fields with Yoran and dines on roasted corn in the husk just before Lorche kills the band with Yoran and she then starts to toughen up, and go off on her true journey.

Mormont's raven is always quorking "CORN" when they talk about going beyond the wall, and the Others are vaguely alluded too (is Bloodraven trying to send a message?) then Jeor is murdered by his Brother's after completing his purpose in the story - and now it is open for Jon to become LC.

Whist Jon is telling Sam that he is to take Gilly and Mance's son and go to Oldtown to become a Maester, Sam feeds the raven corn from the sack and the raven even draws blood. Sam is heading off on his true path. 

Jon also feeds the raven corn from his own hand regularly and is murdered by his own Brother's, only after fulfilling his purpose of protecting the Wildlings, and then to be resurected to fulfill his true destiny path.

Removing all the CORN you get the Raven saying "Me Strong King. Old Gone. Wall slave king. Yes. Old dead. Something waits die. Meat men die."  He adds other words like Jon Snow, Uncle, Take it...etc....

Does anyone else have any corn references that may contribute or rebuke this idea?  Thanks.

 

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16 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Thanks a lot. My grizzly past once again comes back to haunt me.

Corns evil, y'all know it, you don't want to admit it but you know it. Although Corn pops are pretty good, and everyone loves popcorn. Though they are both bad for you. Especially popcorn with loads of fake butter and salt. Then again really it's the fake butter and salt that's bad for you.

Corn has a power of us, we know it, it's our golden master. Anyone who has ever walked into a movie theater knows this. As soon as you walk in the theater and that smell hits you it's over, you end up spending more on popcorn than the damn tickets. You don't go for the small bag either, oh noooooooo! You go for the tub, the small bag is just there to make you feel bad about yourself.

And you get your giant tub of popcorn, and you go take your seat and you are grateful you just paid $20 Bucks for .15 worth of food. Might as well attach two straps to damn thing so we can wrap it around our heads like a damn feed bag for horses. Hell one little kernel falls onto your shirt, some crumbs, and you are picking them off your shirt and shoving then into your mouth like the planet suddenly ran out of popcorn and this is the last chance you will ever have to eat it because you can't buy it at the local grocery store, except in the giant chip isle where it comes in all shapes and sizes.

Corn is evil, it controls us and uses us. Stay away from corn, it's evil I tell you, evil.

In truth OP there is a lot of corn in the series, and there is symbolism involved there like the Corn King (Sacred King) and John Barleycorn, multiple uses as a literary device. There are several topics discussing it, though not to often these days. You can go down several paths with it, the harvest, rituals, mythology, sacrifice, Solar deities (Yes solar is tied sun deities). I would not get to into hidden messages and codes so much, and focus more on symbolism, allusion, mythology, a general focus on literary devices tends to serve readers better.

Don't take the little joke I did about corn as an insult, I have a long history on this board involving corn, so it's kind of a running joke. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Ser Creighton said:

Thanks a lot. My grizzly past once again comes back to haunt me.

Corns evil, y'all know it, you don't want to admit it but you know it. Although Corn pops are pretty good, and everyone loves popcorn. Though they are both bad for you. Especially popcorn with loads of fake butter and salt. Then again really it's the fake butter and salt that's bad for you.

Corn has a power of us, we know it, it's our golden master. Anyone who has ever walked into a movie theater knows this. As soon as you walk in the theater and that smell hits you it's over, you end up spending more on popcorn than the damn tickets. You don't go for the small bag either, oh noooooooo! You go for the tub, the small bag is just there to make you feel bad about yourself.

And you get your giant tub of popcorn, and you go take your seat and you are grateful you just paid $20 Bucks for .15 worth of food. Might as well attach two straps to damn thing so we can wrap it around our heads like a damn feed bag for horses. Hell one little kernel falls onto your shirt, some crumbs, and you are picking them off your shirt and shoving then into your mouth like the planet suddenly ran out of popcorn and this is the last chance you will ever have to eat it because you can't buy it at the local grocery store, except in the giant chip isle where it comes in all shapes and sizes.

Corn is evil, it controls us and uses us. Stay away from corn, it's evil I tell you, evil.

In truth OP there is a lot of corn in the series, and there is symbolism involved there like the Corn King (Sacred King) and John Barleycorn, multiple uses as a literary device. There are several topics discussing it, though not to often these days. You can go down several paths with it, the harvest, rituals, mythology, sacrifice, Solar deities (Yes solar is tied sun deities). I would not get to into hidden messages and codes so much, and focus more on symbolism, allusion, mythology, a general focus on literary devices tends to serve readers better.

Don't take the little joke I did about corn as an insult, I have a long history on this board involving corn, so it's kind of a running joke. 

 

Wait... the butter is fake? 

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10 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Wait... the butter is fake? 

I know, it broke my heart too, it's butter flavoring. They even give you access to it now it's practically a fountain beverage. Salts real though, so not all bad. It's super fine too, it's the powdered sugar of salts. You don't want to know what that cheese like substance is  they put on Nachos. I am guessing it's not good for us, I could be wrong, I have had all three and I am not dead yet, so could be super healthy.

Don't get me started on fried breads, I mean if it's a bread am I suppose to put butter on it? Like Butter on donuts just feels wrong. But if I deep fry the butter, that's a thing. If I deep fry it can I then have it with the donuts? Deep frying seems to solve a lot of problems. Like Corn dogs. Someone found a way to answer the age old question, how can I make corn bread and hot dogs work? Deep fry it. It's really a miracle of modern science. You can pretty much fry anything and it will taste better, and deep frying is frying on steroids, so you know it's extra good.

Popcorn is essentially fried, so what happens if we deep fry it? I don't know but it seems like a project that should be attempted. For science of course, this is all about discovery.

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On 12/11/2016 at 1:10 PM, Ser Creighton said:

I know, it broke my heart too, it's butter flavoring. They even give you access to it now it's practically a fountain beverage. Salts real though, so not all bad. It's super fine too, it's the powdered sugar of salts. You don't want to know what that cheese like substance is  they put on Nachos. I am guessing it's not good for us, I could be wrong, I have had all three and I am not dead yet, so could be super healthy.

Don't get me started on fried breads, I mean if it's a bread am I suppose to put butter on it? Like Butter on donuts just feels wrong. But if I deep fry the butter, that's a thing. If I deep fry it can I then have it with the donuts? Deep frying seems to solve a lot of problems. Like Corn dogs. Someone found a way to answer the age old question, how can I make corn bread and hot dogs work? Deep fry it. It's really a miracle of modern science. You can pretty much fry anything and it will taste better, and deep frying is frying on steroids, so you know it's extra good.

Popcorn is essentially fried, so what happens if we deep fry it? I don't know but it seems like a project that should be attempted. For science of course, this is all about discovery.

I went to the movies last night and all I could think about was this line in your post because they do, indeed, have butter fountains set up for all to enjoy.

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On 12/11/2016 at 1:10 PM, Ser Creighton said:

I know, it broke my heart too, it's butter flavoring. They even give you access to it now it's practically a fountain beverage. Salts real though, so not all bad. It's super fine too, it's the powdered sugar of salts. You don't want to know what that cheese like substance is  they put on Nachos. I am guessing it's not good for us, I could be wrong, I have had all three and I am not dead yet, so could be super healthy.

Don't get me started on fried breads, I mean if it's a bread am I suppose to put butter on it? Like Butter on donuts just feels wrong. But if I deep fry the butter, that's a thing. If I deep fry it can I then have it with the donuts? Deep frying seems to solve a lot of problems. Like Corn dogs. Someone found a way to answer the age old question, how can I make corn bread and hot dogs work? Deep fry it. It's really a miracle of modern science. You can pretty much fry anything and it will taste better, and deep frying is frying on steroids, so you know it's extra good.

Popcorn is essentially fried, so what happens if we deep fry it? I don't know but it seems like a project that should be attempted. For science of course, this is all about discovery.

You truly belong here. :lmao:

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On 12/18/2016 at 8:04 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

I went to the movies last night and all I could think about was this line in your post because they do, indeed, have butter fountains set up for all to enjoy.

And Bloomberg was worried about Coke and Pepsi.

On 12/18/2016 at 10:00 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

You truly belong here. :lmao:

I know it's sad.

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  • 2 weeks later...

After reading the Why Bloodraven is not the Three-Eyed Crow thread, I started thinking about the corn references and remembering some old wordplay possibilities around crown / crone / corn and crow.

I think you may be onto something with this:

On 12/10/2016 at 2:03 AM, Bonkers said:

... corn ... as a signal that the character is about to have their fate changed completely, and start on their true path of destiny.

I think this is especially true if that character has a real or symbolic destiny as a king or queen. This is consistent with the Corn King allusion brought up by Ser Creighton, above, although the symbolism seems to go beyond that allusion.

I'm all about puns and wordplay, and it occurred to me that the German word for a crown is Krone. (Swedish would be Kron, which is even closer to being a match for corn.) I've noticed that kings in ASOIAF who are literally crowned (Robert, Renly, Robb, Joffrey) tend to die, but there are some symbolic "non-crownings" that may identify characters with royal destinies who will survive the many ordeals in store for them. So maybe corn is part of this not-really-a-crowning motif, if we can figure it out. 

An example of a "non-crowning" that doesn't involve corn comes when Theon returns to the Iron Islands. He reenacts the scene where Aegon the Conqueror took the Kings of Winter crown from Thorren Stark, except, instead of kneeling to give up a crown, Theon kneels before his uncle Aeron and undergoes the ritual "drowning" with seawater. I think Aeron is symbolically crowning Theon as the appropriate heir of his father's crown.

Instead of a drowning/crowning, Bran may undergo a symbolic corn/crowning. When I re-read that coma dream where Bran is falling and communicating with the crow, the crow's request for corn at a key moment struck me as likely to be significant:

"I can't fly," Bran said. "I can't, I can't . . . "

How do you know? Have you ever tried?

The voice was high and thin. Bran looked around to see where it was coming from. A crow was spiraling down with him, just out of reach, following him as he fell. "Help me," he said.

I'm trying, the crow replied. Say, got any corn?

Bran reached into his pocket as the darkness spun dizzily around him. When he pulled his hand out, golden kernels slid from between his fingers into the air. They fell with him.

The crow landed on his hand and began to eat.

"Are you really a crow?" Bran asked.

Are you really falling? the crow asked back.

"It's just a dream," Bran said.

Is it? asked the crow.

"I'll wake up when I hit the ground," Bran told the bird.

You'll die when you hit the ground, the crow said. It went back to eating corn.

The way this is written, the author seems to imply that the crow tries to help Bran by asking for corn. What an odd bit of logic. What could the corn represent that would "help" Bran with his fear of falling or with learning to fly? Eventually, of course, the crow pecks Bran on the forehead. This may be the symbolic "non-crowning" for Bran - instead of corn/crown, maybe the symbolism is crow/crown.

Later, we do see Bran presiding as the Prince of Winterfell at the Harvest Feast (when the Corn King would traditionally be sacrificed) and he does seem to undergo a symbolic death.

As you point out, the corn symbolism is also associated with Jon and Arya. That corn-on-the-cob scene with Arya that you cite is probably significant, but it doesn't seem like a crowning scene. Yoren was preparing all of the people in his traveling group to become "Crows," the nickname for the Night's Watch. I wonder whether the eating of corn was a symbolic way of showing that Arya and her friends were about to become "rangers," exploring dangerous country as Night's Watch "crows" would do after taking their vows.

I bet there's some other detail involving Arya's head that will better fit the crowning pattern. Ah - maybe the floppy hat given to her by the sailors on the ship she takes to Essos. That would allude to the floppy hat worn by Aegon in the Dunk & Egg stories, so it makes a perfect non-crown. Or maybe her non-crowning occurs with the bath she is given by Lady Smallwood - this might fit better with the drowning/crowning symbolism. Lady Smallwood is one of the crones in the story, so the crown / crone wordplay might be in effect here. Maybe Arya gets both kinds of non-crownings.

With Jon, as you point out, the corn symbolism is almost non-stop. I know he is a close fit for the sacrificial corn king, so the corn/Krone (crown) symbolism is a good match for his arc. The seed is strong.

I will also note that my wordplay instincts led me to consider the name Rickon, and to wonder whether there is an anagram: I C kron. Icy crown? Maybe Rickon's destiny is to be the King of Winter?

Your OP is thoughtful and includes good examples of "true paths," and it is the first time I've seen someone list all of the words uttered by Mormont's raven. Very interesting idea! I'm glad to discover your thread among the nominees for the best posts of 2016 and I hope it might still get the follow-up discussion it deserves.

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On 14/01/2017 at 11:54 AM, Seams said:

Your OP is thoughtful and includes good examples of "true paths," and it is the first time I've seen someone list all of the words uttered by Mormont's raven. Very interesting idea! I'm glad to discover your thread among the nominees for the best posts of 2016 and I hope it might still get the follow-up discussion it deserves.

Thanks! .... however I must say that I doubt MY thread is among the nominees for the best posts of 2016! lol

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