aadam13 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Which vows are more important (as in which one should take priority),the vow a knights takes to become a knight or the vow a knight gives to his liege to obey them. Also as a side question which one do you think Westerosi lords, smallfolk and septons consider the most important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The North Forgot Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 This is a recurring theme in the series, eg Stannis thinking back to RR and his decision to back his brother instead of his righful King. I'd say it all comes down to each person's morals, did the Kingslayer do the right thing when he killed Aerys? He did break his KG vows, but he also protected the smallfolk from the wildfire stashed under the city. As to which vows lord/smallfolk/septons think is the most important, I'd say the lords think the vows made to them personally is the most important, while the smallfolk and septons think the vows they say when knighted are the most important, simply because they vow to protect the weak which they swear in the name of the Seven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aadam13 Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 8 hours ago, The North Forgot said: This is a recurring theme in the series, eg Stannis thinking back to RR and his decision to back his brother instead of his righful King. I'd say it all comes down to each person's morals, did the Kingslayer do the right thing when he killed Aerys? He did break his KG vows, but he also protected the smallfolk from the wildfire stashed under the city. As to which vows lord/smallfolk/septons think is the most important, I'd say the lords think the vows made to them personally is the most important, while the smallfolk and septons think the vows they say when knighted are the most important, simply because they vow to protect the weak which they swear in the name of the Seven What do you think personally? I believe that a Knights vows more important because they are taken first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The North Forgot Posted December 13, 2016 Share Posted December 13, 2016 On 12.12.2016 at 8:53 PM, aadam13 said: What do you think personally? I believe that a Knights vows more important because they are taken first. Kind of torn of this one tbh. I agree the knight vows are more important when they serve in an army or when they act as household guards and similar, but if they join KG/Night's Watch, those vows should be the "highest" ones. I know this means Jamie really broke his vows even though he did the right thing killing Aerys, but KG/NW makes you cut all ties to your previous life and obey only the King or LC, can't have people with possible conflicting vows in any of those organizations IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Varys Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Considering that many knights and lords fortunes and career depend on not pissing off their better most people would interpret their vows pragmatically in a sense that upholding them doesn't piss anybody off they don't want to piss off. Meaning that you only help the innocents as a knight if it doesn't really cost you anything. Saving some maiden from a known outlaw is all fine and good, intervening when a Targaryen prince is manhandling an innocent woman not so much. Not to mention that following your lord into some stupid battle is also a given when you are sworn sword or household knight in that man's service. Then your oath to that guy is way more important than protecting the innocents. And so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aadam13 Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 On 12/13/2016 at 10:11 PM, The North Forgot said: Kind of torn of this one tbh. I agree the knight vows are more important when they serve in an army or when they act as household guards and similar, but if they join KG/Night's Watch, those vows should be the "highest" ones. I know this means Jamie really broke his vows even though he did the right thing killing Aerys, but KG/NW makes you cut all ties to your previous life and obey only the King or LC, can't have people with possible conflicting vows in any of those organizations IMO Definitely agree with what you said about the NW's vows taking precedent as shown by their vow, however since it seems that you need to be a KG member since they are called knights of the KG (not including Sandor Clegane) meaning that their is a good chance that their KG vows include their knightly vows, however we don't know what a KG's vows are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aadam13 Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 22 hours ago, Lord Varys said: Considering that many knights and lords fortunes and career depend on not pissing off their better most people would interpret their vows pragmatically in a sense that upholding them doesn't piss anybody off they don't want to piss off. Meaning that you only help the innocents as a knight if it doesn't really cost you anything. Saving some maiden from a known outlaw is all fine and good, intervening when a Targaryen prince is manhandling an innocent woman not so much. Not to mention that following your lord into some stupid battle is also a given when you are sworn sword or household knight in that man's service. Then your oath to that guy is way more important than protecting the innocents. And so on. Is this you just stating what actually happens in Westeros or your personal opinion an if it isn't, can you please say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion of the West Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 On 2016-12-14 at 1:48 AM, Lord Varys said: Considering that many knights and lords fortunes and career depend on not pissing off their better most people would interpret their vows pragmatically in a sense that upholding them doesn't piss anybody off they don't want to piss off. Meaning that you only help the innocents as a knight if it doesn't really cost you anything. Saving some maiden from a known outlaw is all fine and good, intervening when a Targaryen prince is manhandling an innocent woman not so much. Not to mention that following your lord into some stupid battle is also a given when you are sworn sword or household knight in that man's service. Then your oath to that guy is way more important than protecting the innocents. And so on. I think this is a pretty good description of how it works in practice. In theory I would like to think that Duncan the Tall, and Brienne of Tarth, is kind of the poster boy/girl for chivalry in Westeros and as such one could look at their behavior to see how a true knight should behave in one situation or another. And note that even Brienne, golden-hearted and chivalrous as she is, can't avoid getting caught in conflicting oaths or having to prioritize between her oath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aadam13 Posted December 17, 2016 Author Share Posted December 17, 2016 On 12/16/2016 at 4:48 PM, LionoftheWest said: I think this is a pretty good description of how it works in practice. In theory I would like to think that Duncan the Tall, and Brienne of Tarth, is kind of the poster boy/girl for chivalry in Westeros and as such one could look at their behavior to see how a true knight should behave in one situation or another. And note that even Brienne, golden-hearted and chivalrous as she is, can't avoid getting caught in conflicting oaths or having to prioritize between her oath. I agree with you, however I think that has already happened with Ser Duncan the Tall in The Sworn Sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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