POEMS (or other sundry quotes) that remind you of ASOIAF

[ravenous reader]

On 6/24/2017 at 8:32 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Hey there RR.

Hi Leech, thank you for your thoughtful and helpful responses, as always!  

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I will try not to spoil too much in case anyone is going to read these stories.

Well, you know how George likes to reuse his own themes, right? It is not just the story Bitterblooms that has a bittersweet ending, but also in my other favorite story Nightflyers and a main character in that one (very much a Tormund/Aemon type) likes to drink bittersweet drinking chocolate. At one point, when the guts are hitting the air, he actually turns away from his normal comforting process and rejects drinking the bittersweet chocolate. And this same character, as well as the final result in the overall plot, ends up getting close to what they want without ever having truly touched it- some touching literal, some touching figurative. It is the desire that got away in both stories. I would say of the two stories, Bitterblooms is actually more on the sad side.

In your opinion, why does he refuse the 'bittersweet chocolate'?  Does the refusal represent a greater acceptance or denial/avoidance of reality?  Is it a bit like Robb abstaining from the Greeshka in 'A Song for Lya'...? (The outcome seems 'bittersweet', whichever way you look at it...regardless of what he chooses, he loses something...) .

On 6/24/2017 at 8:17 PM, The Doctor's Consort said:

I might had said it before but anyway. Imnsho JRRT's famous poem "All that is gold does not glitter" fits Jon and his storyline perfectly. 

All that is gold does not glitter,

not all those who wander are lost

the old that is strong does not wither,

deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,

a light from the shadows shall spring

renewed shall be blade that was broken,

the crownless again shall be king.

You may have mentioned it before, but I never get tired of that poem!  Although I don't think Jon will be king -- at least not of any mundane realm...

That heroic spirit embodied in the Tolkien verse finds an echo in the brave climax of Tennyson's poem 'Ulysses':

Death closes all: but something ere the end,  Some work of noble note, may yet be done,  Not unbecoming men that strove with Gods.  The lights begin to twinkle from the rocks:  The long day wanes: the slow moon climbs: the deep  Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends,  'T is not too late to seek a newer world.  Push off, and sitting well in order smite  The sounding furrows; for my purpose holds  To sail beyond the sunset, and the baths  Of all the western stars, until I die.  It may be that the gulfs will wash us down:  It may be we shall touch the Happy Isles,  And see the great Achilles, whom we knew.  Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'  We are not now that strength which in old days  Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are;  One equal temper of heroic hearts,  Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will  To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

 

On 6/24/2017 at 8:39 PM, The Fattest Leech said:

Has this one been done? George uses it as the opener to his story And Seven Times Never Kill Man.

"Ye may kill for yourselves,

and your mates,

and your cubs as they need,

and ye can;

But kill not for pleasure of killing,

and seven times never kill man!"

-Rudyard Kipling

I wasn't aware of that one.  It's from a poem 'The Law for the Wolves'!  (are there any actual wolves in that story?) 

 

The Law for the Wolves

NOW this is the Law of the Jungle — as old and as true as the sky;
And the Wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the Wolf that shall break it must die.

As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk the Law runneth forward and back —
For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.

Wash daily from nose-tip to tail-tip; drink deeply, but never too deep;
And remember the night is for hunting, and forget not the day is for sleep.

The Jackal may follow the Tiger, but, Cub, when thy whiskers are grown,
Remember the Wolf is a Hunter — go forth and get food of thine own.

Keep peace withe Lords of the Jungle — the Tiger, the Panther, and Bear.
And trouble not Hathi the Silent, and mock not the Boar in his lair.

When Pack meets with Pack in the Jungle, and neither will go from the trail,
Lie down till the leaders have spoken — it may be fair words shall prevail.

When ye fight with a Wolf of the Pack, ye must fight him alone and afar,
Lest others take part in the quarrel, and the Pack be diminished by war.

The Lair of the Wolf is his refuge, and where he has made him his home,
Not even the Head Wolf may enter, not even the Council may come.

The Lair of the Wolf is his refuge, but where he has digged it too plain,
The Council shall send him a message, and so he shall change it again.

If ye kill before midnight, be silent, and wake not the woods with your bay,
Lest ye frighten the deer from the crop, and your brothers go empty away.

Ye may kill for yourselves, and your mates, and your cubs as they need, and ye can;
But kill not for pleasure of killing, and seven times never kill Man!

If ye plunder his Kill from a weaker, devour not all in thy pride;
Pack-Right is the right of the meanest; so leave him the head and the hide.

The Kill of the Pack is the meat of the Pack. Ye must eat where it lies;
And no one may carry away of that meat to his lair, or he dies.

The Kill of the Wolf is the meat of the Wolf. He may do what he will;
But, till he has given permission, the Pack may not eat of that Kill.

Cub-Right is the right of the Yearling. From all of his Pack he may claim
Full-gorge when the killer has eaten; and none may refuse him the same.

Lair-Right is the right of the Mother. From all of her year she may claim
One haunch of each kill for her litter, and none may deny her the same.

Cave-Right is the right of the Father — to hunt by himself for his own:
He is freed of all calls to the Pack; he is judged by the Council alone.

Because of his age and his cunning, because of his gripe and his paw,
In all that the Law leaveth open, the word of your Head Wolf is Law.

Now these are the Laws of the Jungle, and many and mighty are they;
But the head and the hoof of the Law and the haunch and the hump is — Obey!

 

Rudyard Kipling (1865–1936)

 

 

Indeed, GRRM appears to have a great appreciation for poetry!  @Wizz-The-Smith also recently brought to my attention that GRRM frequently references Matthew Arnold's poem, 'Dover Beach,' in 'A Song for Lya' (we've been discussing the correlations to ASOIAF, with particular reference to the weirnet hivemind vs. individual ego dynamic GRRM is exploring):  

 

Spoiler

 

I slept.

Long darkness then, but finally a dream, and finally I remembered. I was back on the plain again, the infinite darkling plain with its starless sky and black shapes in the distance, the plain Lya had spoken of so often. It was from one of her favorite poems. I was alone, forever alone,and I knew it. That was the nature of things. I was the only reality in the universe, and I was cold and hungry and frightened, and the shapes were moving toward me, inhuman and inexorable. And there was no one to call to, no one to turn to, no one to hear my cries. There never had been anyone. There never would be anyone.

Then Lya came to me.She floated down from the starless sky, pale and thin and fragile, and stood beside me on the plain. She brushed her hair back with her hand, and looked at me with glowing wide eyes, and smiled. And I knew it was no dream. She was with me, somehow. We talked.

Hi, Robb.

Lya? Hi, Lya. Where are you? You left me.

I'm sorry. I had to. You understand, Robb. You have to. I didn't want to be here anymore, ever, in this place, this awful place. I would have been, Robb. Men are always here, but for brief moments.

 A touch and a voice?

Yes, Robb. Then darkness again, and a silence. And the darkling plain.

You're mixing two poems, Lya. But it's OK. You know them better than I do. But aren't you leaving out something? The earlier part. "Ah love, let us be true…"

Oh, Robb.

Where are you?

I'm—everywhere. But mostly in a cave. I was ready, Robb. I was already more open than the rest. I could skip the Gathering, and the Joining. My Talent made me used to sharing. It took me.

...<snip>...

 

And then she was gone. I was alone on the plain again. A wind was blowing from somewhere,and it whipped her fading words away from me, out into the cold vastness of infinity.

 

In the cheerless morning, the outer door was unlocked. I ascended the tower and found Valcarenghi alone in his office. "Do you believe in God?" I asked him.

 

He looked up, smiled. "Sure." Said lightly. I was reading him. It was a subject he'd never thought about.

 

"I don't," I said. "Neither did Lya. Most Talents are atheists, you know. There was an experiment tried back on Old Earth fifty years ago. It was organized by a major Talent named Linnel, who was also devoutly religious. He thought that by using drugs, and linking together the minds of the world's most potent Talents, he could reach something he called the Universal Yes-I-Live. Also known as God. The experiment was a dismal failure, but something happened. Linnel went mad, and the others came away with only a vision of a vast, dark, uncaring nothingness, a void without reason or form or meaning. Other Talents have felt the same way,and Normals too. Centuries ago there was a poet named Arnold, who wrote of a darkling plain.The poem's in one of the old languages, but it's worth reading. It shows—fear, I think. Something basic in man, some dread of being alone in the cosmos. Maybe it's just fear of death, maybe it's more. I don't know. But it's primal. All men are forever alone, but they don't want to be.

 

They're always searching, trying to make contact, trying to reach others across the void. Some people never succeed, some break through occasionally. Lya and I were lucky. But it's never permanent. In the end you're alone again, back on the darkling plain. You see, Dino? Do you see?"

 

He smiled an amused little smile. Not derisive—that wasn't his style—just surprised and disbelieving. "No," he said. "Look again, then. Always people are reaching for something, for someone, searching. Talk,Talent, love, sex, it's all part of the same thing, the same search. And gods, too. Man invents gods because he's afraid of being alone, scared of an empty universe, scared of the darkling plain. That's why your men are converting, Dino, that's why people are going over. They've found God, or as much of a God as they're ever likely to find. The Union is a mass-mind, an immortal mass-mind, many in one, all love. The Shkeen don't die, dammit. No wonder they don't have the concept of an afterlife. They know there's a God.

 

Maybe it didn't create the universe, but it's love, pure love, and they say that God is love, don't they? Or maybe what we call love is a tiny piece of God. I don't care, whatever it is, the Union is it. The end of the search for the Shkeen, and for Man too. We're alike after all, we're so alike it hurts.

 

"Valcarenghi gave his exaggerated sigh. "Robb, you're overwrought. You sound like one of the Joined."

 

"Maybe that's just what I should be. Lya is. She's part of the Union now."  He blinked. "How do you know that?"

 

"She came to me last night in a dream." "Oh. A dream."

 

"It was true, dammit. It's all true."

 

Valcarenghi stood, and smiled. "I believe you," he said. "That is, I believe that the Greeshka uses a psi-lure, a love lure if you will, to draw in its prey, something so powerful that it convinces men—even you—that it's God. Dangerous, of course. I'll have to think about this before taking action. We could guard the caves to keep humans out, but there are too many caves. And sealing off the Greeshka wouldn't help our relations with the Shkeen. But now it's my problem. You've done your job."

 

I waited until he was through. "You're wrong, Dino. This is real, no trick, no illusion. I felt it, and Lya too. The Greeshka hasn't even a yes-I-live, let alone a psi-lure strong enough to bring in Shkeen and men."

 

"You expect me to believe that God is an animal who lives in the caves of Shkea?" "Yes."

 

 

The line about 'Men are always here, but for brief moments' reminds me of Mya Stone's speech:

 

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A Feast for Crows - Alayne II

"Almost, I said. I saw you. Weren't you afraid?"

Mya shook her head. "I remember a man throwing me in the air when I was very little. He stands as tall as the sky, and he throws me up so high it feels as though I'm flying. We're both laughing, laughing so much that I can hardly catch a breath, and finally I laugh so hard I wet myself, but that only makes him laugh the louder. I was never afraid when he was throwing me. I knew that he would always be there to catch me." She pushed her hair back. "Then one day he wasn't. Men come and go. They lie, or die, or leave you. A mountain is not a man, though, and a stone is a mountain's daughter. I trust my father, and I trust my mules. I won't fall." She put her hand on a jagged spur of rock, and got to her feet. "Best finish. We have a long way yet to go, and I can smell a storm."

 

 

P.S.  @Wizz-The-Smith also cleverly pointed out that 'Dino' is an anagram of 'Odin' (for all  'anagram-skeptics' out there -- yes, @LmL, I'm looking at you, my dear!   -- and others who might have reservations as to the extent of GRRM's wordplay...).

 

 

When Robb refers to 'mixing up the two poems' with one another, he's referencing Arnold's 'Dover Beach' and Longfellow's 'The Theologian's Tale: Elizabeth', as follows:

 

Ships that pass in the night, and speak each other in passing,
Only a signal shown and a distant voice in the darkness;
So on the ocean of life we pass and speak one another,
Only a look and a voice, then darkness again and a silence.

 

HENRY WADSWORTH LONGFELLOW

From:  The Theologian's Tale; Elizabeth

 

 

     Dover Beach

 

The sea is calm tonight. 

The tide is full, the moon lies fair 

Upon the straits; on the French coast the light 

Gleams and is gone; the cliffs of England stand, 

Glimmering and vast, out in the tranquil bay. 

Come to the window, sweet is the night-air! 

Only, from the long line of spray 

Where the sea meets the moon-blanched land, 

Listen! you hear the grating roar 

Of pebbles which the waves draw back, and fling, 

At their return, up the high strand, 

Begin, and cease, and then again begin, 

With tremulous cadence slow, and bring 

The eternal note of sadness in. 

 

Sophocles long ago 

Heard it on the Ægean, and it brought 

Into his mind the turbid ebb and flow 

Of human misery; we 

Find also in the sound a thought, 

Hearing it by this distant northern sea. 

 

The Sea of Faith 

Was once, too, at the full, and round earth’s shore 

Lay like the folds of a bright girdle furled. 

But now I only hear 

Its melancholy, long, withdrawing roar, 

Retreating, to the breath 

Of the night-wind, down the vast edges drear 

And naked shingles of the world. 

 

Ah, love, let us be true 

To one another! for the world, which seems 

To lie before us like a land of dreams, 

So various, so beautiful, so new, 

Hath really neither joy, nor love, nor light, 

Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain; 

And we are here as on a darkling plain 

Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, 

Where ignorant armies clash by night.

 

MATTHEW ARNOLD

 

 

Spoiler

It's safe to say, GRRM was obviously very heartbroken over the end of his relationship at the time of writing 'A Song for Lya', in which the woman in question left him for his best friend, abandoning him on the 'darkling plain,' with not even a cup of 'bittersweet' chocolate to keep him company...

 

 

[Weirwood Ghost]

Tanfastic topic!! I find quotes and ideas that form part of Martin's world all the time. The main story I've found direct quotes and ideas from, that I suspect he has borrowed, is Marion Zimmer-Bradley's Mists of Avalon:

Lyonnesse (the name of lost lands) = Lyonnesse (the name of Sir Jorah's wife that left him)

The Fairie-folk being slaughtered by magic-fearing, God-believing men  = The Children being slaughtered by the First Men

Romans cutting down the Druids "sacred groves" using made up lies of Druids committing "human sacrifice" = rumours of blood sacrifice to the trees used as an excuse to cut down the weirwood trees

"Then a great shooting star flamed along the sky, paling the form of the red dragon..." = comet viewed in the sky heralding the coming or going of a person

"Excalibur, which meant cut steel. Swords of meteorite iron were rare and precious; this one might well be the price of a kingdom" = The sword "Dawn" forged by a fallen meteorite

"You know nothing...your words are like the wind, without meaning" = You know nothing Jon Snow. Words are wind.

 

[ravenous reader]

9 hours ago, Weirwood Ghost said:

Tanfastic topic!! I find quotes and ideas that form part of Martin's world all the time. The main story I've found direct quotes and ideas from, that I suspect he has borrowed, is Marion Zimmer-Bradley's Mists of Avalon:

Lyonnesse (the name of lost lands) = Lyonnesse (the name of Sir Jorah's wife that left him)

The Fairie-folk being slaughtered by magic-fearing, God-believing men  = The Children being slaughtered by the First Men

Romans cutting down the Druids "sacred groves" using made up lies of Druids committing "human sacrifice" = rumours of blood sacrifice to the trees used as an excuse to cut down the weirwood trees

"Then a great shooting star flamed along the sky, paling the form of the red dragon..." = comet viewed in the sky heralding the coming or going of a person

"Excalibur, which meant cut steel. Swords of meteorite iron were rare and precious; this one might well be the price of a kingdom" = The sword "Dawn" forged by a fallen meteorite

"You know nothing...your words are like the wind, without meaning" = You know nothing Jon Snow. Words are wind.

 

Hi @Weirwood Ghost, welcome to our poetry-etc. thread -- I'm glad you're enjoying it -- and thank you for your contribution!  

Those are all very relevant references.  Particularly, I'm intrigued by the last one.  In which context and by/to whom was 'You know nothing...your words are like wind' said in 'Mists of Avalon'?

[Unchained]

@ravenous reader

I really like all the comparisons to a song for Lya.  There's something there.  I had a thought a few days ago take a look at these quotes.  

 

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She had not slept, could not sleep, would not sleep. She had not even dared to close her eyes, for fear it would be morning when she opened them again. If only she had the power, she would have made their nights go on forever, but the best that she could do was stay awake to try and savor every last sweet moment before daybreak turned them into no more than fading memories.

 

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Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved

 

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Daario rolled toward her, his eyes open. "Daenerys." He smiled a lazy smile. That was another of his talents; he woke all at once, like a cat. "Is it dawn?" 

 

"Not yet. We have a while still."

 

Liar. I can see your eyes. Could I do that if it were the black of night?" Daario kicked loose of the coverlets and sat up. "The half-light. Day will be here soon." 

 

"I do not want this night to end."

 

 

 

 

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Marry me, and we can have all the nights forever

 

Dany wants night to last forever so she and Daario can be one for eternity.  When Dawn comes dreams end.  Catelyn is similar.

 

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As she slept amidst the rolling grasslands, Catelyn dreamt that Bran was whole again, that Arya and Sansa held hands, that Rickon was still a babe at her breast. Robb, crownless, played with a wooden sword, and when all were safe asleep, she found Ned in her bed, smiling.

 

Sweet it was, sweet and gone too soon. Dawn came cruel, a dagger of light. She woke aching and alone and weary; weary of riding, weary of hurting, weary of duty. I want to weep, she thought. I want to be comforted. I'm so tired of being strong. I want to be foolish and frightened for once. Just for a small while, that's all . . . a day . . . an hour . . .

 

 

Cat and Dany just want to dream of their loved ones, but Dawn takes that away.  Dreaming is done at night.  

 

What do you think of the Long Night being two lover's minds together as one?  They just want to be together, but the consequences for the living are terrible so they must be kept apart.  The Wall blocks skinchanging magic.  One mind is north of it trying to get south to reunite with its other half and when it succeeds in reaching its mate LN 2.0 begins.  

[ravenous reader]

8 hours ago, Unchained said:

I really like all the comparisons to a song for Lya.  There's something there.  I had a thought a few days ago take a look at these quotes.  

 

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She had not slept, could not sleep, would not sleep. She had not even dared to close her eyes, for fear it would be morning when she opened them again. If only she had the power, she would have made their nights go on forever, but the best that she could do was stay awake to try and savor every last sweet moment before daybreak turned them into no more than fading memories.

 

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Daario might whisper words of love when the two of them were as one, but she knew it was the dragon queen he loved

 

Quote

 

Daario rolled toward her, his eyes open. "Daenerys." He smiled a lazy smile. That was another of his talents; he woke all at once, like a cat. "Is it dawn?" 

 

"Not yet. We have a while still."

 

Liar. I can see your eyes. Could I do that if it were the black of night?" Daario kicked loose of the coverlets and sat up. "The half-light. Day will be here soon." 

 

"I do not want this night to end."

 

 

 

 

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Marry me, and we can have all the nights forever

 

Dany wants night to last forever so she and Daario can be one for eternity.  When Dawn comes dreams end.  Catelyn is similar.

 

Quote

 

As she slept amidst the rolling grasslands, Catelyn dreamt that Bran was whole again, that Arya and Sansa held hands, that Rickon was still a babe at her breast. Robb, crownless, played with a wooden sword, and when all were safe asleep, she found Ned in her bed, smiling.

 

Sweet it was, sweet and gone too soon. Dawn came cruel, a dagger of light. She woke aching and alone and weary; weary of riding, weary of hurting, weary of duty. I want to weep, she thought. I want to be comforted. I'm so tired of being strong. I want to be foolish and frightened for once. Just for a small while, that's all . . . a day . . . an hour . . .

 

 

Cat and Dany just want to dream of their loved ones, but Dawn takes that away.  Dreaming is done at night.  

 

What do you think of the Long Night being two lover's minds together as one?  They just want to be together, but the consequences for the living are terrible so they must be kept apart.  The Wall blocks skinchanging magic.  One mind is north of it trying to get south to reunite with its other half and when it succeeds in reaching its mate LN 2.0 begins.  

I love the idea, @Unchained !  The 'cruel dagger of light' extinguishes our illusions, fantasies, magic itself!  About the 'soul seeking out its other half' at 'night':

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A Clash of Kings - Bran V

Old Nan told scary stories of beastlings and shapechangers sometimes. In the stories they were always evil. "I'm not like that," Bran said. "I'm not. It's only dreams."

"The wolf dreams are no true dreams. You have your eye closed tight whenever you're awake, but as you drift off it flutters open and your soul seeks out its other half. The power is strong in you."

"I don't want it. I want to be a knight."

You introduce an interesting angle to the whole concept of the 'darkling plain' -- the tragic irony that one couple's fulfilment may be another person's or people's 'darkling plain' (this was indeed the case in 'real life' for our poor author left by his lover, who had chosen instead to join in blissful union with the Greeshka his best friend!  One (wo)man's treachery is another's salvation).

Who would you envision these two star-crossed lovers are, and where are they located (the heart of winter and summer, perhaps...)?  Ultimately, 'The Song of Ice and Fire' is a love story...well, of love interwoven with war, love frequently precipitating war:

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A Dance with Dragons - The Kingbreaker

"She will weep and tear her hair and curse the Yunkai'i. Not us. No blood on our hands. You can comfort her. Tell her some tale of the old days, she likes those. Poor Daario, her brave captain … she will never forget him, no … but better for all of us if he is dead, yes? Better for Daenerys too."

Better for Daenerys, and for Westeros. Daenerys Targaryen loved her captain, but that was the girl in her, not the queen. Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it. Daemon Blackfyre loved the first Daenerys, and rose in rebellion when denied her. Bittersteel and Bloodraven both loved Shiera Seastar, and the Seven Kingdoms bled. The Prince of Dragonflies loved Jenny of Oldstones so much he cast aside a crown, and Westeros paid the bride price in corpses. All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love, in defiance of their father's wishes. And because that unlikely monarch had himself followed his heart when he chose his queen, he allowed his sons to have their way, making bitter enemies where he might have had fast friends. Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire, and grief.

Her love for Daario is poison. A slower poison than the locusts, but in the end as deadly. 

Supporting your thesis, in this passage it is love that is responsible for bringing on the 'night'...'bitter[ness]...treason...turmoil...sorcery, fire and grief.'  'Westeros paid the bride price in corpses.'

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A Storm of Swords - Arya VIII

And so Lem woke Tom Sevenstrings beneath his furs, and brought him yawning to the fireside with his woodharp in hand. "The same song as before?" he asked.

"Oh, aye. My Jenny's song. Is there another?"

And so he sang, and the dwarf woman closed her eyes and rocked slowly back and forth, murmuring the words and crying. Thoros took Arya firmly by the hand and drew her aside. "Let her savor her song in peace," he said. "It is all she has left."

I take you a bet he's singing 'the song of ice and fire' (full of sound and fury, agony and ecstasy, and a good deal of mocking and counter-mocking to keep the whole thing moving along swimmingly...)!  

Two other pairs of famous star-crossed lovers which might provide some inspiration are Shakespeare's 'Romeo and Juliet' and the story of the 'Weaver Girl and the Cowherd' of Chinese mythology (courtesy  @Pain killer Jane for bringing the latter to my attention; perhaps PK can add some further insights):

 

Romeo and Juliet

 

ACT III, SCENE V. Capulet's orchard.

Enter ROMEO and JULIET above, at the window

JULIET

Wilt thou be gone? it is not yet near day:
It was the nightingale, and not the lark,
That pierced the fearful hollow of thine ear;
Nightly she sings on yon pomegranate-tree:
Believe me, love, it was the nightingale.

ROMEO

It was the lark, the herald of the morn,
No nightingale: look, love, what envious streaks
Do lace the severing clouds in yonder east:
Night's candles are burnt out, and jocund day
Stands tiptoe on the misty mountain tops.
I must be gone and live, or stay and die.

                      JULIET

                      Yon light is not day-light, I know it, I:
                      It is some meteor that the sun exhales,              
                      To be to thee this night a torch-bearer,
                      And light thee on thy way to Mantua:
                      Therefore stay yet; thou need'st not to be gone.
 

                                         [ @LmL tell me again that you hate Shakespeare...]

                      ROMEO

Let me be ta'en, let me be put to death;
I am content, so thou wilt have it so.
I'll say yon grey is not the morning's eye,
'Tis but the pale reflex of Cynthia's brow;
Nor that is not the lark, whose notes do beat
The vaulty heaven so high above our heads:
I have more care to stay than will to go:
Come, death, and welcome! Juliet wills it so.
How is't, my soul? let's talk; it is not day.

JULIET

It is, it is: hie hence, be gone, away!
It is the lark that sings so out of tune,
Straining harsh discords and unpleasing sharps.
Some say the lark makes sweet division;
This doth not so, for she divideth us:
Some say the lark and loathed toad change eyes,
O, now I would they had changed voices too!
Since arm from arm that voice doth us affray,
Hunting thee hence with hunt's-up to the day,
O, now be gone; more light and light it grows.

ROMEO

More light and light; more dark and dark our woes!

Enter Nurse, to the chamber

NURSE

Madam!

JULIET

Nurse?

NURSE

Your lady mother is coming to your chamber:
The day is broke; be wary, look about.

Exit

JULIET

Then, window, let day in, and let life out.

ROMEO

Farewell, farewell! one kiss, and I'll descend.

He goeth down

JULIET

Art thou gone so? love, lord, ay, husband, friend!
I must hear from thee every day in the hour,
For in a minute there are many days:
O, by this count I shall be much in years
Ere I again behold my Romeo!

ROMEO

Farewell!
I will omit no opportunity
That may convey my greetings, love, to thee.

JULIET

O think'st thou we shall ever meet again?

ROMEO

I doubt it not; and all these woes shall serve
For sweet discourses in our time to come.

JULIET

O God, I have an ill-divining soul!
Methinks I see thee, now thou art below,
As one dead in the bottom of a tomb:
Either my eyesight fails, or thou look'st pale.

ROMEO

And trust me, love, in my eye so do you:
Dry sorrow drinks our blood. Adieu, adieu!

Exit

JULIET

O fortune, fortune! all men call thee fickle:
If thou art fickle, what dost thou with him.
That is renown'd for faith? Be fickle, fortune;
For then, I hope, thou wilt not keep him long,
But send him back.

 

WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE

From:  Romeo and Juliet, Act 3, Scene 5

(See the following links for a modern language version and an annotated version)

 

 

Vega and Altair 

(the Weaver Girl and the Cowherd)

 

From wikipedia:

Quote

The Weaver Girl and the Cowherd is a Chinese folk tale.

The general tale is a love story between Zhinü (織女; the weaver girl, symbolizing the star Vega) and Niulang (牛郎; the cowherd, symbolizing the star Altair). Their love was not allowed, thus they were banished to opposite sides of the Silver River (symbolizing the Milky Way Galaxy). Once a year, on the 7th day of the 7th lunar month, a flock of magpies would form a bridge to reunite the lovers for one day. There are many variations of the story. The earliest-known reference to this famous myth dates back to over 2600 years ago, which was told in a poem from the Classic of Poetry.

 

Quote

The tale has been alluded to in many literary works. One of the most famous one was the poem by Qin Guan (1049-1100) during the Song dynasty:

“鵲橋仙

纖雲弄巧，飛星傳恨，銀漢迢迢暗渡。 金風玉露一相逢，便勝卻人間無數。 柔情似水，佳期如夢，忍顧鵲橋歸路。 兩情若是久長時，又豈在朝朝暮暮。

Meeting across the Milky way

Through the varying shapes of the delicate clouds, the sad message of the shooting stars, a silent journey across the Milky Way, one meeting of the Cowherd and Weaver amidst the golden autumn wind and jade-glistening dew, eclipses the countless meetings in the mundane world. The feelings soft as water, the ecstatic moment unreal as a dream, how can one have the heart to go back on the bridge made of magpies? If the two hearts are united forever, why do the two persons need to stay together—day after day, night after night? 

 

The Herd-Boy and the Weaver-Girl

This story, of which there are many versions, goes back to the sixth century BC and can be found in the first known book of Chinese poetry, The Book of Songs (Shijing 诗经).

A very long time ago, when the King of the Sky created the heavens, he decorated it with stars and asked his beautiful daughter to help him by weaving the clouds and mists. It was a long task and when the king noticed his daughter looking tired and drawn, he ordered her to take a break and go out to play among the stars. The princess headed down towards the Milky Way to bathe, whereupon she came across a handsome herd-boy grazing his water buffalo by the banks of the stream. Distracted by the boy the princess lost track of time and returned home to her work long after the curfew her father had set. The King, upon discovering the reason for her late return was very angry and forbade her to visit the boy again. In case she disobeyed him, the King poured thousands more stars into the Milky Way until it was no longer a stream but a flowing river that the princess and the herd-boy could not cross. Without a bridge, the two were stranded on opposite sides of the Milky Way forever more. The Princess, who had fallen in love with the herd-boy, was distraught, and cried until her father relented. The King and his daughter reached an agreement that he would allow her to spend one day of each year with her herd-boy if she worked hard all year round. To this day, on the seventh day of the seventh month of every year the King sends a flock of magpies over the Milky Way to form a bridge. The weather must be clear on this evening or the lovers cannot cross the celestial river to meet each other. If it rains the pair must wait another year. On a clear night you can see their two bright stars together in the sky. If it rains it is said that the drops falling to earth are the tears of the Weaver-Girl Princess.

From:  Astronomy and Myth

 

Another version, in which 'skinchanging' seems to feature

 

[Unchained]

1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

I love the idea, @Unchained !  The 'cruel dagger of light' extinguishes our illusions, fantasies, magic itself!  About the 'soul seeking out its other half' at 'night':

You introduce an interesting angle to the whole concept of the 'darkling plain' -- the tragic irony that one couple's fulfilment may be another person's or people's 'darkling plain' (this was indeed the case in 'real life' for our poor author left by his lover, who had chosen instead to join in blissful union with the Greeshka his best friend!  One (wo)man's treachery is another's salvation).

Who would you envision these two star-crossed lovers are, and where are they located (the heart of winter and summer, perhaps...)?  Ultimately, 'The Song of Ice and Fire' is a love story...well, of love interwoven with war, love frequently precipitating war:

Supporting your thesis, in this passage love brings on the 'night'...'bitter[ness]...treason...turmoil...sorcery, fire and grief.'  'Westeros paid the bride price in corpses.'

I take you a bet he's singing 'the song of ice and fire' (full of sound and fury, agony and ecstasy, and a good deal of mocking and counter-mocking to keep the whole thing moving along swimmingly...)!  

Two other pairs of famous star-crossed lovers which might provide some inspiration are Shakespeare's 'Romeo and Juliet' and the story of the 'Weaver Girl and the Cowherd' of Chinese mythology (courtesy  @Pain killer Jane for bringing the latter to my attention; perhaps PK can add some further insights):

 

Romeo and Juliet

 

ACT III, SCENE V. Capulet's orchard.

Enter ROMEO and JULIET above, at the window

JULIET

Wilt thou be gone? it is not yet near day:
It was the nightingale, and not the lark,
That pierced the fearful hollow of thine ear;
Nightly she sings on yon pomegranate-tree:
Believe me, love, it was the nightingale.

ROMEO

It was the lark, the herald of the morn,
No nightingale: look, love, what envious streaks
Do lace the severing clouds in yonder east:
Night's candles are burnt out, and jocund day
Stands tiptoe on the misty mountain tops.
I must be gone and live, or stay and die.

JULIET

Yon light is not day-light, I know it, I:
It is some meteor that the sun exhales,          [ @LmL, tell me you hate             To be to thee this night a torch-bearer,            Shakespeare again...] 
And light thee on thy way to Mantua:
Therefore stay yet; thou need'st not to be gone.

ROMEO

Let me be ta'en, let me be put to death;
I am content, so thou wilt have it so.
I'll say yon grey is not the morning's eye,
'Tis but the pale reflex of Cynthia's brow;
Nor that is not the lark, whose notes do beat
The vaulty heaven so high above our heads:
I have more care to stay than will to go:
Come, death, and welcome! Juliet wills it so.
How is't, my soul? let's talk; it is not day.

JULIET

It is, it is: hie hence, be gone, away!
It is the lark that sings so out of tune,
Straining harsh discords and unpleasing sharps.
Some say the lark makes sweet division;
This doth not so, for she divideth us:
Some say the lark and loathed toad change eyes,
O, now I would they had changed voices too!
Since arm from arm that voice doth us affray,
Hunting thee hence with hunt's-up to the day,
O, now be gone; more light and light it grows.

ROMEO

More light and light; more dark and dark our woes!

Enter Nurse, to the chamber

NURSE

Madam!

JULIET

Nurse?

NURSE

Your lady mother is coming to your chamber:
The day is broke; be wary, look about.

Exit

JULIET

Then, window, let day in, and let life out.

ROMEO

Farewell, farewell! one kiss, and I'll descend.

He goeth down

JULIET

Art thou gone so? love, lord, ay, husband, friend!
I must hear from thee every day in the hour,
For in a minute there are many days:
O, by this count I shall be much in years
Ere I again behold my Romeo!

ROMEO

Farewell!
I will omit no opportunity
That may convey my greetings, love, to thee.

JULIET

O think'st thou we shall ever meet again?

ROMEO

I doubt it not; and all these woes shall serve
For sweet discourses in our time to come.

JULIET

O God, I have an ill-divining soul!
Methinks I see thee, now thou art below,
As one dead in the bottom of a tomb:
Either my eyesight fails, or thou look'st pale.

ROMEO

And trust me, love, in my eye so do you:
Dry sorrow drinks our blood. Adieu, adieu!

Exit

JULIET

O fortune, fortune! all men call thee fickle:
If thou art fickle, what dost thou with him.
That is renown'd for faith? Be fickle, fortune;
For then, I hope, thou wilt not keep him long,
But send him back.

 

WILLIAM SHAKESPEARE

From:  Romeo and Juliet, Act 3, Scene 5

(See the following links for a modern language version and an annotated version)

 

 

Vega and Altair (the Weaver Girl and the Cowherd)

 

From wikipedia:

 

“鵲橋仙

纖雲弄巧，飛星傳恨，銀漢迢迢暗渡。 金風玉露一相逢，便勝卻人間無數。 柔情似水，佳期如夢，忍顧鵲橋歸路。 兩情若是久長時，又豈在朝朝暮暮。

Meeting across the Milky way

Through the varying shapes of the delicate clouds, the sad message of the shooting stars, a silent journey across the Milky Way, one meeting of the Cowherd and Weaver amidst the golden autumn wind and jade-glistening dew, eclipses the countless meetings in the mundane world. The feelings soft as water, the ecstatic moment unreal as a dream, how can one have the heart to go back on the bridge made of magpies? If the two hearts are united forever, why do the two persons need to stay together—day after day, night after night? 

 

The Herd-Boy and the Weaver-Girl

This story, of which there are many versions, goes back to the sixth century BC and can be found in the first known book of Chinese poetry, The Book of Songs (Shijing 诗经).

A very long time ago, when the King of the Sky created the heavens, he decorated it with stars and asked his beautiful daughter to help him by weaving the clouds and mists. It was a long task and when the king noticed his daughter looking tired and drawn, he ordered her to take a break and go out to play among the stars. The princess headed down towards the Milky Way to bathe, whereupon she came across a handsome herd-boy grazing his water buffalo by the banks of the stream. Distracted by the boy the princess lost track of time and returned home to her work long after the curfew her father had set. The King, upon discovering the reason for her late return was very angry and forbade her to visit the boy again. In case she disobeyed him, the King poured thousands more stars into the Milky Way until it was no longer a stream but a flowing river that the princess and the herd-boy could not cross. Without a bridge, the two were stranded on opposite sides of the Milky Way forever more. The Princess, who had fallen in love with the herd-boy, was distraught, and cried until her father relented. The King and his daughter reached an agreement that he would allow her to spend one day of each year with her herd-boy if she worked hard all year round. To this day, on the seventh day of the seventh month of every year the King sends a flock of magpies over the Milky Way to form a bridge. The weather must be clear on this evening or the lovers cannot cross the celestial river to meet each other. If it rains the pair must wait another year. On a clear night you can see their two bright stars together in the sky. If it rains it is said that the drops falling to earth are the tears of the Weaver-Girl Princess.

From:  Astronomy and Myth

 

Another version, in which 'skinchanging' seems to feature

 

I knew you would do something impressive with my vague thought.  Them being "star-crossed lovers" occurred to me too.  AA literally crossed the stars to reach his moon woman.  Romeo and Juliet must be in the books somewhere everything else Shakespeare is.  But, I really love the Chinese lovers separated by the Milky Way.  I am going to take a closer look at that right away.   @LmL has compared Dawn to the milky way.  Instead of a white sword, Jon uses a white wolf to separate himself from Yggrite.  The wall itself seems to be playing the part of the Bifrost from Norse mythology which is thought to also be inspired by the Milky Way as well.  Except there seems to be an inversion as one is a bridge and the other a wall.  They both have magic to prevent the crossing of certain undesireables.  For any of this to make sense the wall has to be what is keeping them apart.  The milkwater river is a reference to the Milky Way, but I am not sure how it is being used.  

 

Quote

Renly's battles were already coming apart as the rumors spread from mouth to mouth. The nightfires had burned low, and as the east began to lighten the immense mass of Storm's End emerged like a dream of stone while wisps of pale mist raced across the field, flying from the sun on wings of wind. Morning ghosts, she had heard Old Nan call them once, spirits returning to their graves. And Renly one of them now, gone like his brother Robert, like her own dear Ned

.

 

If if I had to guess where they each are I would say that one is in the heart of winter and the other is in Winterfell.  Maybe the heart of summer is where one was last time I don't know.  

[The Fattest Leech]

On 6/25/2017 at 5:41 PM, ravenous reader said:

Hi Leech, thank you for your thoughtful and helpful responses, as always!  

In your opinion, why does he refuse the 'bittersweet chocolate'?  Does the refusal represent a greater acceptance or denial/avoidance of reality?

Trauma to the people around him that are only on this mission because he asked for them. He felt responsible when the shit started hitting the fan in the lounge. This is when the mother-ship was telepathically screwing with people and killing them. Let me see if I can find the exact quote...

The talks had broken up, and one by one the academicians had gone to bed. Even Karoly D'Branin had retired, his appetite for chocolate quelled by his memories of the lounge.

When before, as Bowen Marsh and Alliser Thorne the other crew mates start wondering who this Royd Eris (Jon) is and start assuming he is working against them... before they start planning a mutiny>>> sound familiar? Karoly D'Branin would sit around and sip it with ease as people often do with a scotch. I will say, of all the GRRM stories that I have read, many have characters drinking booze, beer, or wine. This is the only one with a drinking chocolate and it is bittersweet.

"... lots of us have been getting uneasy about Royd Eris. What do you know about this mystery man, anyway?"

"Know, my friend?" D'Branin refilled his cup with the thick bittersweet chocolate and sipped at it slowly, trying to give himself a moment to think. "What is there to know?"

On 6/25/2017 at 5:41 PM, ravenous reader said:

 

 Is it a bit like Robb abstaining from the Greeshka in 'A Song for Lya'...? (The outcome seems 'bittersweet', whichever way you look at it...regardless of what he chooses, he loses something...) .

Nope. Robb was having more of an eye opening experience, a personal existential revelation, compared to this one in Nightflyers. Karoly has a rather bittersweet ending on his own in this story as do the other two main characters who have a bittersweet ending "together".

 

[The Fattest Leech]

 

Quote

I wasn't aware of that one.  It's from a poem 'The Law for the Wolves'!  (are there any actual wolves in that story?) 

No, no wolves in Seven Times Never Kill Man.

However, if you want a story with a lot of 'wolf' everything, try Dying of the Light. Poem listed below is where the story title came from.

• A planet called Wolfheim, and note the 'heim' suffix which is the old Norse for world, or, home.
• Wolfmen, from Wolfheim, and one was an famous astronomer
• Crazy complicated character names that only certain people can use at certain times which include the proper name Wolf in them.
• Part of that crazy naming sequence comes with identity (you have to know your name is a big theme in this one), and at one point the main character goes in to detail about identifying more as a "Wolf" than "Iron Jade".
• The silver and white wolf air-car that a main character tries to steal and ends up hiding in to get away from the "bad guys". It has laser cannons mounted on its sides that are red lights. The character, Dirk, tries to get in to the air-car for protection and he notices that the wolf air-car still has full power. The air-car snaps shut on him and Dirk looks out of the "great eyes" with a "wry smile" on his face.

George has wolves in many of his stories, and some are human-wolf skinchange beings (as well as a woman who puts on a cloak to change into a large hunting bird). He also has the werewolf series The Skin Trade. And GRRM says his favorite monster shows as a kid were the werewolf stories. 

Do not go gentle into that good night

Dylan Thomas, 1914 - 1953

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

[LmL]

4 hours ago, Unchained said:

I knew you would do something impressive with my vague thought.  Them being "star-crossed lovers" occurred to me too.  AA literally crossed the stars to reach his moon woman.  Romeo and Juliet must be in the books somewhere everything else Shakespeare is.  But, I really love the Chinese lovers separated by the Milky Way.  I am going to take a closer look at that right away.   @LmL has compared Dawn to the milky way.  Instead of a white sword, Jon uses a white wolf to separate himself from Yggrite.  The wall itself seems to be playing the part of the Bifrost from Norse mythology which is thought to also be inspired by the Milky Way as well.  Except there seems to be an inversion as one is a bridge and the other a wall.  They both have magic to prevent the crossing of certain undesireables.  For any of this to make sense the wall has to be what is keeping them apart.  The milkwater river is a reference to the Milky Way, but I am not sure how it is being used.  

 

.

 

If if I had to guess where they each are I would say that one is in the heart of winter and the other is in Winterfell.  Maybe the heart of summer is where one was last time I don't know.  

It's the sun and moon, simple as that. I've been saying from the beginning that this thing is an alchemical wedding. When the sun marries the moon, it cracks from the heat and gives us lightbringer dragons... which turn out the lights, ironically. 

And RR, just because he said "meteor" doesn't change the impenetrability of the prose. I don't 'hate' Shakespeare, it's just way too tedious to figure out what the fuck he's actually talking about. I prefer the exact opposite of Shakespeare, which is George R.R. Martin. He uses very simple prose, really, repeating a lot of phrases and descriptions but hiding behind them all kinds of nine-dimensional chess and whatnot.  The prose and the narrative slips into your brain super easy-like, and then your subconscious can sniff out the symbolism and metaphor... that's how it works for me anyway. 

I know you know this.

As for the idea of the Wall somehow separating some kind of representation of these lovers, I would start with the potential correlation that I see with the ice moon and the heart of winter. The idea of the 2 moons theory is that the last one was 'fire associated' somehow, with the one remaining being tied to the Others and the north and ice magic, etc. I see this pattern represented by solar kings with 2 brides or lady loves - take Rhaegar and Elia and Lyanna. Elia of Dorne would be the fire associated moon, while Lyanna would be the ice moon. So, what needs to happen in the story, according to this line of thinking, is some kind of destructive event with the ice moon. If it parallels the original event, this ice moon will "wander too close to the sun," get scalded by the heat, and "then the dragons will return." But they will be ice dragons this time. 

So, translating to your idea, the Heart of Winter needs to get 'burned' (or impregnated) by some solar, fiery folk. That might be why people with dragon blood or fire associations keep heading to the Wall, with Dany soon to follow (and probably my man Tyrion Targaryen as well, lol). Perhaps if resurrected Jon reaches the heart of winter, he can seize some item of power (black meteor?) or have sex with the Night's Queen or some shit, who knows. 

Oh, there is the Isle of Faces. Perhaps the game is to keep the Others away from there at all costs. That's the only significantly magical place in the south that could be on par with the Heart of Winter, I think. 

[Pain killer Jane]

6 hours ago, LmL said:

So, translating to your idea, the Heart of Winter needs to get 'burned' (or impregnated) by some solar, fiery folk. That might be why people with dragon blood or fire associations keep heading to the Wall, with Dany soon to follow (and probably my man Tyrion Targaryen as well, lol). Perhaps if resurrected Jon reaches the heart of winter, he can seize some item of power (black meteor?) or have sex with the Night's Queen or some shit, who knows. 

You know I was thinking about the Heart of Winter being impregnated but I am thinking that  we will get that scene at the Eyrie. It, on several occasions been described as impregnable and in order to penetrate the Eyrie, one would have to smash through the Bloody Gate. Which the Bloody Gate is a euphemism for the hymen. 

@ravenous reader Thank you for mentioning the story. It is one of my favorites. That story for me relates quite alot to the series down from the elements to their very names as you know I tend to think that Veghar is cleverly hiding Vega.

 And @Unchained that is a good theory on the separation of two lovers or love being the cause of the long night. I did notice that the excess and obessive nature of love in the most general sense of the word is the cause of many downfalls and madness than good. 

Did you also consider the need to stay in a dream or better yet 'living the dream' element? The need to keep the dream alive can be considered a self-fulfilling prophecy as dreams in the novels can be prophecies while also being delusions that are being forced to be true. That could cause the Long Night as well.

[Unchained]

1 hour ago, Pain killer Jane said:

You know I was thinking about the Heart of Winter being impregnated but I am thinking that  we will get that scene at the Eyrie. It, on several occasions been described as impregnable and in order to penetrate the Eyrie, one would have to smash through the Bloody Gate. Which the Bloody Gate is a euphemism for the hymen. 

@ravenous reader Thank you for mentioning the story. It is one of my favorites. That story for me relates quite alot to the series down from the elements to their very names as you know I tend to think that Veghar is cleverly hiding Vega.

 And @Unchained that is a good theory on the separation of two lovers or love being the cause of the long night. I did notice that the excess and obessive nature of love in the most general sense of the word is the cause of many downfalls and madness than good. 

Did you also consider the need to stay in a dream or better yet 'living the dream' element? The need to keep the dream alive can be considered a self-fulfilling prophecy as dreams in the novels can be prophecies while also being delusions that are being forced to be true. That could cause the Long Night as well.

That myth fits really well and it explains why there are so many Milky Way symbols  around the wall, Dawn, and ghost being a white sword separating Jon and the woman trying to give him a fiery kiss.  So, you think Vhaegar is a play in Vega?  That makes a lot of sense too because that was the dragon ridden by Aegon's icy wife who would parallel with whatever may be trapped on the north side of the Milky Way wall.  The quotes I posted yesterday show Dany and Catelyn wanting to dream forever.  Anytime you find something those two do you probably need to look at Cersei next.  I can't remember any pleasant dream that she wakes from because of morning, but there might be one.  There is something regarding her that may be relevant though.  When she is talking to Ned after he discovers the twincest, she mentions that she was born first, and jaime came out holding her heel.  That is a reference to Jacob and Esau from the Bible who were born the same way.  Jacob and Jaime even sound alike.  Jacob puts on sheep skin to imitate Esau while his older twin is deer hunting just like King Robert is while they are having this talk.  Jacob's skinchanging trick works and he steals his older brother's blessing.  In that same talk Cersei says that she feels "whole" when Jaime is "inside" her.  That need to feel whole caused a lot of suffering.  Jaime is like AA usurping Garth (Bob) by skinchanging somehow like Lann seems to have done.  I think all the mistaken identities during sex themes and preferred fiery wife over the icy wife stuff of Aegon and Littlefinger with the Tullys is based on Jacob and his making a deal to marry Rachel to a large extent.  He is himself the victim of an identity switcheroo.    

 

Cersei also has has the most conspicuous  self fulfilling dream/prophecy.  

[LmL]

On 6/27/2017 at 10:14 AM, Unchained said:

That myth fits really well and it explains why there are so many Milky Way symbols  around the wall, Dawn, and ghost being a white sword separating Jon and the woman trying to give him a fiery kiss.  So, you think Vhaegar is a play in Vega?  That makes a lot of sense too because that was the dragon ridden by Aegon's icy wife who would parallel with whatever may be trapped on the north side of the Milky Way wall.  The quotes I posted yesterday show Dany and Catelyn wanting to dream forever.  Anytime you find something those two do you probably need to look at Cersei next.  

Indeed! Great call. Those three...

Quote

I can't remember any pleasant dream that she wakes from because of morning, but there might be one.  There is something regarding her that may be relevant though.  When she is talking to Ned after he discovers the twincest, she mentions that she was born first, and jaime came out holding her heel.  That is a reference to Jacob and Esau from the Bible who were born the same way.  Jacob and Jaime even sound alike.  Jacob puts on sheep skin to imitate Esau while his older twin is deer hunting just like King Robert is while they are having this talk.  Jacob's skinchanging trick works and he steals his older brother's blessing.  In that same talk Cersei says that she feels "whole" when Jaime is "inside" her.  That need to feel whole caused a lot of suffering.  Jaime is like AA usurping Garth (Bob) by skinchanging somehow like Lann seems to have done.  I think all the mistaken identities during sex themes and preferred fiery wife over the icy wife stuff of Aegon and Littlefinger with the Tullys is based on Jacob and his making a deal to marry Rachel to a large extent.  He is himself the victim of an identity switcheroo.    

 

Cersei also has has the most conspicuous  self fulfilling dream/prophecy.  

Very nice, Martin certainly knows his Bible (as I do), and this all seems to fit - the heel-grabbing seems like one of those little sign posts he plants to let us know he's using something. 

Great observations, as usual.

On 6/27/2017 at 7:48 AM, Pain killer Jane said:

You know I was thinking about the Heart of Winter being impregnated but I am thinking that  we will get that scene at the Eyrie. It, on several occasions been described as impregnable and in order to penetrate the Eyrie, one would have to smash through the Bloody Gate. Which the Bloody Gate is a euphemism for the hymen. 

In my experience, all of the places that are "fire moon" or "ice moon" have some version of the same symbolism. We will find some version of the black fire meteor inside the ice moon at the Eyrie AND North of the Wall, and, for example, at White Harbor - the Wolf's Den is black stone, and the oldest part of the castle, and holds a trapped AA figure in Davos. His jailor is named Garth. Ha! Same for the white sword tower, which is white everything, even the weirwood table... save for the black oak chair of the Lord Commander, underneath of which Jaime has hidden... Oathkeeper! Ta da!

I think the grey direwolf on a field of white might be the same thing, quite frankly. 

Also, Hey there PKJ! How ya been?

[Pain killer Jane]

On 6/28/2017 at 3:13 PM, LmL said:

Also, Hey there PKJ! How ya been?

Well enough. Its been a long month and excruciatingly hot for us up here; living in a valley sucks. Midday isn't so hot but come 4 or 5 pm, it is 110+. 

On 6/28/2017 at 3:13 PM, LmL said:

I think the grey direwolf on a field of white might be the same thing, quite frankly.

Hmmm..... now that is interesting. If that is the case then the running wolf is a gerbil in a snow globe exercise wheel. 

 

On 6/28/2017 at 3:13 PM, LmL said:

In my experience, all of the places that are "fire moon" or "ice moon" have some version of the same symbolism. We will find some version of the black fire meteor inside the ice moon at the Eyrie AND North of the Wall, and, for example, at White Harbor - the Wolf's Den is black stone, and the oldest part of the castle, and holds a trapped AA figure in Davos. His jailor is named Garth. Ha! Same for the white sword tower, which is white everything, even the weirwood table... save for the black oak chair of the Lord Commander, underneath of which Jaime has hidden... Oathkeeper! Ta da!

That makes sense. When you put it that way then Ned and Davos would be parallel to each other. Should we be paralleling Varys and Garth? 

Oooooooo......nice catch with Jaime, the chair and Oathkeeper. That makes Oathkeeper a hidden dagger and it was put in the hands of a person rife with Blue Falcon/betrayer imagery. 

[LmL]

On 6/30/2017 at 7:51 AM, Pain killer Jane said:

Well enough. Its been a long month and excruciatingly hot for us up here; living in a valley sucks. Midday isn't so hot but come 4 or 5 pm, it is 110+. 

Hmmm..... now that is interesting. If that is the case then the running wolf is a gerbil in a snow globe exercise wheel. 

I love that! Ice gerbil, confirmed. Now if we can just avoid anyone making randy gerbil jokes...

On 6/30/2017 at 7:51 AM, Pain killer Jane said:

That makes sense. When you put it that way then Ned and Davos would be parallel to each other. Should we be paralleling Varys and Garth? 

Yes, because the wwnet is like a web, and Varys sits at the center of a web. Same for Rohanne (Rowan) Webber, the Red Widow, who will be in my next essay.

On 6/30/2017 at 7:51 AM, Pain killer Jane said:

Oooooooo......nice catch with Jaime, the chair and Oathkeeper. That makes Oathkeeper a hidden dagger and it was put in the hands of a person rife with Blue Falcon/betrayer imagery. 

What's awesome is that Sansa Stone in the icy Eyrie is analogous to Oathkeeper in the white sword tower, and Brienne is given Oathkeeper to find Sansa. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

This always reminded me of Sansa during her time at KL.

Noble Dame by Manos Hadjidakis

She was a lady once of noble name, noble dame.
she has a silver ring from her king
give her a nickel, take her out to dine, give her wine.
comfort her if she sighs and then cries.

Look for her by the fountain on the road, say hello
don't be afraid to smile and then go
and if you see her talking to herself all alone,
leave her alone, her heart is at home.

She was a lady once without a care, golden hair.
she was the only friend of the king
maybe she'Il come and ask you for your name, noble Dame.
we'll give our love to her on her way.

Look for her by the fountain on the road, say hello
don't be afraid to smile and then go
and if you see her talking to herself all alone,
leave her alone, her heart is at home.

 

For Jon during his time as a Night Watch man.

Short Change Hero by The Heavy

I can't see where you're comin' from
but I know just what you're runnin' from
and what matters thinkin' who's baddest but the
ones who stop you falling from your ladder

When you feel like you're feeling now
and doin' things just to please your crowd
when I love you like the way I love you
and I suffer but I ain't gonna cut you 'cause

This ain't no place for no hero
this ain't no place for no better man
this ain't no place for no hero
to go home

This ain't no place for no hero
this ain't no place for no better man
this ain't no place for no hero
to go home

And every time I close my eyes
I think, I think about you inside
and your mother givin' up on asking why
why you lie and you cheat
and you try to make a fool out of she

I can't see where you're comin' from
but I know just what you're runnin' from
and what matters thinkin' who's baddest but the
ones who stop you falling from your ladder, cause

This ain't no place for no hero
this ain't no place for no better man
this ain't no place for no hero
to go home

This ain't no place for no hero
this ain't no place for no better man
this ain't no place for no hero
to go home

 

For the Starks:

Higher Than Hope by Nightwish 

Time it took the most of me
and left me with no key
to unlock the chest of remedy
mother, the pain ain't hurting me
but the love that I feel
when you hold me near 

The hopes were high
the choirs were vast
now my dreams are left to live through you

Red Sun rising
drown without inhaling
within, the dark holds hard

Passiontide 
an angel by my side
but no Christ to end this war
to deliver my soul from the sword.
Hope has shown me a scenery
paradise poetry
with first snow I'll be gone

The hopes were high
the choirs were vast
now my dreams are left to live through you

Red Sun rising
drown without inhaling
within, the dark holds hard
Red Sun rising
curtain falling
higher than hope my cure lies

I would just like to think that, it's not why it happened to me. But why was I saved? What else can I do now?.

Your death saved me

Being in the dark about something, I can't even tell you how scary it is. You don't know what's inside; you don't know what's going to happen to you. The best way to put somebody at ease is to inform them, even if it's the grim truth.

Red Sun rising
drown without inhaling
within, the dark holds hard
red Sun rising
curtain falling
higher than hope my cure lies

Red Sun rising
drown without inhaling
within, the dark holds hard
red Sun rising
curtain falling
higher than hope my cure lies

 
 

[ravenous reader]

On 7/1/2017 at 6:48 PM, The Doctor's Consort said:

This always reminded me of Sansa during her time at KL.

Noble Dame by Manos Hadjidakis

She was a lady once of noble name, noble dame.
she has a silver ring from her king
give her a nickel, take her out to dine, give her wine.
comfort her if she sighs and then cries.

Look for her by the fountain on the road, say hello
don't be afraid to smile and then go
and if you see her talking to herself all alone,
leave her alone, her heart is at home.

She was a lady once without a care, golden hair.
she was the only friend of the king
maybe she'Il come and ask you for your name, noble Dame.
we'll give our love to her on her way.

Look for her by the fountain on the road, say hello
don't be afraid to smile and then go
and if you see her talking to herself all alone,
leave her alone, her heart is at home.

 

For Jon during his time as a Night Watch man.

Short Change Hero by The Heavy

I can't see where you're comin' from
but I know just what you're runnin' from
and what matters thinkin' who's baddest but the
ones who stop you falling from your ladder

When you feel like you're feeling now
and doin' things just to please your crowd
when I love you like the way I love you
and I suffer but I ain't gonna cut you 'cause

This ain't no place for no hero
this ain't no place for no better man
this ain't no place for no hero
to go home

This ain't no place for no hero
this ain't no place for no better man
this ain't no place for no hero
to go home

And every time I close my eyes
I think, I think about you inside
and your mother givin' up on asking why
why you lie and you cheat
and you try to make a fool out of she

I can't see where you're comin' from
but I know just what you're runnin' from
and what matters thinkin' who's baddest but the
ones who stop you falling from your ladder, cause

This ain't no place for no hero
this ain't no place for no better man
this ain't no place for no hero
to go home

This ain't no place for no hero
this ain't no place for no better man
this ain't no place for no hero
to go home

 

For the Starks:

Higher Than Hope by Nightwish 

Time it took the most of me
and left me with no key
to unlock the chest of remedy
mother, the pain ain't hurting me
but the love that I feel
when you hold me near 

The hopes were high
the choirs were vast
now my dreams are left to live through you

Red Sun rising
drown without inhaling
within, the dark holds hard

Passiontide 
an angel by my side
but no Christ to end this war
to deliver my soul from the sword.
Hope has shown me a scenery
paradise poetry
with first snow I'll be gone

The hopes were high
the choirs were vast
now my dreams are left to live through you

Red Sun rising
drown without inhaling
within, the dark holds hard
Red Sun rising
curtain falling
higher than hope my cure lies

I would just like to think that, it's not why it happened to me. But why was I saved? What else can I do now?.

Your death saved me

Being in the dark about something, I can't even tell you how scary it is. You don't know what's inside; you don't know what's going to happen to you. The best way to put somebody at ease is to inform them, even if it's the grim truth.

Red Sun rising
drown without inhaling
within, the dark holds hard
red Sun rising
curtain falling
higher than hope my cure lies

Red Sun rising
drown without inhaling
within, the dark holds hard
red Sun rising
curtain falling
higher than hope my cure lies

 
 

Thanks for introducing me to those, @The Doctor's Consort!    (it's interesting that you associate the Starks with a 'red sun rising'..!)

 

This one reminds me of Bran and Dany...I think they're going to fly -- and die -- together... 

 

 

 

Secret Door
 

Turn out the lights
Feed the fire
'Til my soul breathes free
My heart is high
As the waves above me

Don't need to understand
Too lost to lose
Don't fight my tears
'Cause they feel so good

And I, I will remember how to fly
Unlock the heavens in my mind
Follow my love back
Through the same secret door

Look past the end
It's a dream
As it's always been
All life lives on
If we've ever loved it

And I, I will remember how to fly
Unlock the heavens in my mind
Follow my love back
Through the same secret door

I, I will remember how to fly
Unlock the heavens in my mind
Follow my love back
Through the same secret door

 

EVANESCENCE

 

[Cridefea]

Sorry I'm “a bit” late!

On 23/6/2017 at 6:13 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I shall be telling this with a sigh

Somewhere ages and ages hence:

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—

I took the one less traveled by,

And that has made all the difference.

I love it!!

On 23/6/2017 at 6:13 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

I found myself astray in a dark wood
where the straight road had been lost.

How hard it is to say what it was like
in the thick of thickets, in a wood so dense and gnarled
the very thought of it renews my panic

'Cause the night is dark and full of terrors

In the dark forest Dante meets 3 beasts: a Lonza a Lion and a She-wolf. There are different interpretations, some thinks that lonza (sort of a panther/leopard) is probably symbolic of fraud, the lion of violence and the she-wolf of incontinence.  Others believe they represent Lust, Pride and Greed. My book version gives the second option. I think they could fit the Lannister, but what about the Stark?

Lastly, when virgilio sees Dante's fear for the she-wolf he says:

« Molti son li animali a cui s'ammoglia

e più saranno ancora, infin che'l veltro
verrà, che la farà morir con doglia.

Questi non ciberà terra né peltro,
ma sapïenza, amore e virtute,
e sua nazion sarà tra feltro e feltro.

Di quella umile Italia fia salute
per cui morì la vergine Cammilla,
Eurialo e Turno e Niso di ferute.

Questi la caccerà per ogne villa
fin che l'avrà rimessa ne lo 'nferno
là ove 'nvidia prima dipartilla. »

 

"Many the animals with whom she weds,
And more they shall be still, until the Greyhound
Comes, who shall make her perish in her pain.

He shall not feed on either earth or pelf,
But upon wisdom, and on love and virtue;
'Twixt Feltro and Feltro shall his nation be;

Of that low Italy shall he be the saviour,
On whose account the maid Camilla died,
Euryalus, Turnus, Nisus, of their wounds;

Through every city shall he hunt her down,
Until he shall have driven her back to Hell,
There from whence envy first did let her loose."

 

This is the Greyhound Prophecy. It's still an enigma, some thinks that he was referring to the religion other to a new emperor. In any case, he's talking about a man who will save Italy (the reigns) A sort of AA?

 

On 23/6/2017 at 6:13 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

It is bitter almost as death itself is bitter.

I know it's not the original interpretation, but “bitter” in this sentence reminds me the poison. In italian we says “bitter like poison”

 

Yes, Martin uses “bitter” a lot. Also the cold is bitter

“The cold was so bitter that Sam felt naked”

“the days at Craster's Keep had been . . . well, not warm perhaps, but not so bitter cold.”

“those few who had survived the snow, the wights, and the bitter cold. ”

“It was the black of night outside, bitter cold and overcast ”

And talking about cold:

On 23/6/2017 at 6:13 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

Into eternal darkness, into fire, and into ice.

I love that Dante identify the Hell not only with fire but with ice too. And that the deepest part of Hell, where the worst sinners are, is the coldest one. Cocito is a frozen lake where Dante meets sinners guilty of treachery: traitors to their kindred, to their country,to their guests (Walder would be there XD) and to their Lords. I think there could be some parallelisms here, with Asoiaf. Oh and in the centre of Hell there is Lucifer with three heads.

 

[ravenous reader]

On 6/23/2017 at 0:13 PM, LiveFirstDieLater said:

"Have no hope of ever seeing heaven!

I come to take you to the other shore,

Into eternal darkness, into fire, and into ice.

 

Non isperate mai veder lo cielo:
i' vegno per menarvi a l'altra riva
ne le tenebre etterne, in caldo e 'n gelo.

 

DANTE

 

On 7/9/2017 at 9:39 AM, Cridefea said:

I love that Dante identify the Hell not only with fire but with ice too. And that the deepest part of Hell, where the worst sinners are, is the coldest one. Cocito is a frozen lake where Dante meets sinners guilty of treachery: traitors to their kindred, to their country,to their guests (Walder would be there XD) and to their Lords. I think there could be some parallelisms here, with Asoiaf. Oh and in the centre of Hell there is Lucifer with three heads.

Ciao Cridefea!  

Continuing with the Italian gelato ice-and-fire theme, some Petrarch:

 

‘Onde tolse Amor l’oro, et di qual vena...’

 

Onde tolse Amor l'oro, et di qual vena, per far due trecce bionde? e 'n quali spine colse le rose, e 'n qual piaggia le brine tenere et fresche, et die' lor polso et lena? onde le perle, in ch'ei frange et affrena dolci parole, honeste et pellegrine? onde tante bellezze, et sí divine, di quella fronte, piú che 'l ciel serena? Da quali angeli mosse, et di qual spera, quel celeste cantar che mi disface sí che m'avanza omai da disfar poco? Di qual sol nacque l'alma luce altera di que' belli occhi ond'io ò guerra et pace, che mi cuocono il cor in ghiaccio e 'n fuoco?

Where, and from what vein, did Love derive the gold for her blonde hair? From what thorn did he pluck the rose, from what fields the fresh and tender frost, and give them force and power? From where, those pearls to part and restrain her sweet words in their chaste wandering? And so much heavenly beauty on her brow, more so than in the calmest skies? From what angels, and with what hopes, came that celestial singing that disarmed me, so that I've never been anything but disarmed? From what sun was that high kindly light born of lovely eyes, from which came war and peace, that seared my heart with ice and fire?

 

FRANCESCO PETRARCA ('PETRARCH')

Translation:  A.S. KLINE

Sonnet 220 from 'Il Canzoniere'

 

 

[ravenous reader]

Usually, I try to stick to the book version of our story in presenting poems, but yesterday I was put in mind of a few poems after watching Series 7 Episode 2, particularly... 

Spoiler

...the sequence -- my favourite of the episode, thanks to Maisie Williams' superb acting -- beginning with Arya turning around her horse at the Crossroads, against the flow, in order to make her way north ‘home’ to Winterfell, followed by the poignant reunion in the woods with Nymeria, which was at once a heartbreaking separation and rejection, though not maliciously intended (just as Arya's rejection of Nymeria in series 1, also in the woods in the Riverlands, symbolically a watershed, was a 'lie told not without honor' and not ill-willed); concluding with Arya's self-reflective note of recognition, with the wistful half-smile and enigmatic phrase 'that isn't you,' a callback to Arya's own 'that isn't me' to her father in Series 1, as well as echoing Arya's overarching theme of identity, as reflected in the question addressed to her repeatedly in the House of Black and White, 'Who are you?' 

Who is Arya then? Where is home for her, really? Can one ever hope to retrace ones steps and return to what has been lost?  Even if she makes her way back to Winterfell physically, will she be able to reconnect with it any more than Nymeria would feel at home there at this juncture? On a less pessimistic note, Nymeria is no longer a lone wolf; she has found her pack -- will Arya likewise find hers?

In spite of the disappointment at finding and then losing Nymeria all over again, it was heartening, prohibitive CGI costs notwithstanding, that Arya was granted this moment of reconnection, reconciliation even, however brief. When Arya puts down Needle kneeling before the wolf and her pack, in a pure moment of reverence and uncharacteristic vulnerability, I was brought to tears (yes, despite or perhaps because of my 'ravenous' reputation, I am very sentimental, especially when it comes to wolves…)   .

All three of these poems are about finding our way in the wilderness -- and by that I don't mean the one out there, but the one in our own inscrutable souls.  Each in its own way nicely captures that sense of being torn at a crossroads, like Arya, between on the one hand, the past tugging one back towards the familiarity of well-worn pathways, though these no longer be visible on the outside, or if visible, so transformed and overgrown to be almost unrecognizable -- as Hot Pie asks Arya 'What happened to you?' -- and on the other hand, the future impelling one forward into the unknown. Frost's poem especially takes on quite a menacing shade when applied to Arya, with the nameless, faceless narrator pausing to watch someone or something from a vantage point unseen in the woods, the last few lines affirming the ‘promises to keep’ perhaps evoking her death wishlist, and the repetition like a mantra of the ‘miles to go before I sleep’ her untiring determination to fulfill those 'promises,' even unto death itself!

Inferno Canto I


In the middle of the journey of our life

I found myself astray in a dark wood

where the straight road had been lost sight of.

How hard it is to say what it was like

in the thick of thickets, in a wood so dense

and gnarled

the very thought of it renews my panic.

It is bitter almost as death itself is bitter.

But to rehearse the good it also brought me

I will speak about the other things I saw there.

How I got into it I cannot clearly say

for I was moving like a sleepwalker

the moment I stepped out of the right way,

But when I came to the bottom of a hill

standing off at the far end of that valley

where a great terror had disheartened me

I looked up, and saw how its shoulders glowed

already in the rays of the planet

which leads and keeps men straight on every road.

Then I sensed a quiet influence settling

into those depths in me that had been rocked

and pitifully troubled all night long

And as a survivor gasping on the sand

turns his head back to study in a daze

the dangerous combers, so my mind

Turned back, although it was reeling forward,

back to inspect a pass that had proved fatal

heretofore to everyone who entered.


DANTE ALIGHIERI

Translation:  SEAMUS HEANEY


From "Dante's Inferno: Translations by 20 Contemporary Poets" edited by Daniel Halpern). In this new translation, some of our finest contemporary poets, Amy Clampitt, Carolyn Forche, Robert Haas, Seamus Heaney, Galway Kinnell, W.S. Merwin, Robert Pinsky and Mark Strand to name a few, join forces in an effort to put, as Halpern says, "one of our 'sacred' texts back into the hands of the keepers of the language." 1993 by the Ecco Press.



The Way Through the Woods 


THEY shut the road through the woods 

Seventy years ago. 

Weather and rain have undone it again, 

And now you would never know 

There was once a road through the woods 

Before they planted the trees. 

It is underneath the coppice and heath, 

And the thin anemones. 

Only the keeper sees 

That, where the ring-dove broods, 

And the badgers roll at ease, 

There was once a road through the woods. 


Yet, if you enter the woods 

Of a summer evening late, 

When the night-air cools on the trout-ringed pools 

Where the otter whistles his mate, 

(They fear not men in the woods, 

Because they see so few.) 

You will hear the beat of a horse's feet, 

And the swish of a skirt in the dew, 

Steadily cantering through 

The misty solitudes, 

As though they perfectly knew 

The old lost road through the woods. 

But there is no road through the woods. 


RUDYARD KIPLING



Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening 


Whose woods these are I think I know. 

His house is in the village though; 

He will not see me stopping here 

To watch his woods fill up with snow. 


My little horse must think it queer 

To stop without a farmhouse near 

Between the woods and frozen lake 

The darkest evening of the year. 


He gives his harness bells a shake 

To ask if there is some mistake. 

The only other sound’s the sweep 

Of easy wind and downy flake. 


The woods are lovely, dark and deep, 

But I have promises to keep, 

And miles to go before I sleep, 

And miles to go before I sleep. 


ROBERT FROST

 

[Cridefea]

On 21/7/2017 at 11:02 PM, ravenous reader said:

 

Ciao Cridefea!  

Continuing with the Italian gelato ice-and-fire theme, some Petrarch:

 

‘Onde tolse Amor l’oro, et di qual vena...’

 

Onde tolse Amor l'oro, et di qual vena, per far due trecce bionde? e 'n quali spine colse le rose, e 'n qual piaggia le brine tenere et fresche, et die' lor polso et lena? onde le perle, in ch'ei frange et affrena dolci parole, honeste et pellegrine? onde tante bellezze, et sí divine, di quella fronte, piú che 'l ciel serena? Da quali angeli mosse, et di qual spera, quel celeste cantar che mi disface sí che m'avanza omai da disfar poco? Di qual sol nacque l'alma luce altera di que' belli occhi ond'io ò guerra et pace, che mi cuocono il cor in ghiaccio e 'n fuoco?

Where, and from what vein, did Love derive the gold for her blonde hair? From what thorn did he pluck the rose, from what fields the fresh and tender frost, and give them force and power? From where, those pearls to part and restrain her sweet words in their chaste wandering? And so much heavenly beauty on her brow, more so than in the calmest skies? From what angels, and with what hopes, came that celestial singing that disarmed me, so that I've never been anything but disarmed? From what sun was that high kindly light born of lovely eyes, from which came war and peace, that seared my heart with ice and fire?

 

FRANCESCO PETRARCA ('PETRARCH')

Translation:  A.S. KLINE

Sonnet 220 from 'Il Canzoniere'

 

 

I didn't know that sonetto. Thanks. Great metaphor, Ice and Fire! Petrarca uses it to describe his emotions, so strong  that feels like a contrast. Who does in Asoiaf feel that way?

 

18 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Usually, I try to stick to the book version of our story in presenting poems, but yesterday I was put in mind of a few poems after watching Series 7 Episode 2, particularly... 

  Hide contents

...the sequence -- my favourite of the episode, thanks to Maisie Williams' superb acting -- beginning with Arya turning around her horse at the Crossroads, against the flow, in order to make her way north ‘home’ to Winterfell, followed by the poignant reunion in the woods with Nymeria, which was at once a heartbreaking separation and rejection, though not maliciously intended (just as Arya's rejection of Nymeria in series 1, also in the woods in the Riverlands, symbolically a watershed, was a 'lie told not without honor' and not ill-willed); concluding with Arya's self-reflective note of recognition, with the wistful half-smile and enigmatic phrase 'that isn't you,' a callback to Arya's own 'that isn't me' to her father in Series 1, as well as echoing Arya's overarching theme of identity, as reflected in the question addressed to her repeatedly in the House of Black and White, 'Who are you?' 

Who is Arya then? Where is home for her, really? Can one ever hope to retrace ones steps and return to what has been lost?  Even if she makes her way back to Winterfell physically, will she be able to reconnect with it any more than Nymeria would feel at home there at this juncture? On a less pessimistic note, Nymeria is no longer a lone wolf; she has found her pack -- will Arya likewise find hers?

In spite of the disappointment at finding and then losing Nymeria all over again, it was heartening, prohibitive CGI costs notwithstanding, that Arya was granted this moment of reconnection, reconciliation even, however brief. When Arya puts down Needle kneeling before the wolf and her pack, in a pure moment of reverence and uncharacteristic vulnerability, I was brought to tears (yes, despite or perhaps because of my 'ravenous' reputation, I am very sentimental, especially when it comes to wolves…)   .

All three of these poems are about finding our way in the wilderness -- and by that I don't mean the one out there, but the one in our own inscrutable souls.  Each in its own way nicely captures that sense of being torn at a crossroads, like Arya, between on the one hand, the past tugging one back towards the familiarity of well-worn pathways, though these no longer be visible on the outside, or if visible, so transformed and overgrown to be almost unrecognizable -- as Hot Pie asks Arya 'What happened to you?' -- and on the other hand, the future impelling one forward into the unknown. Frost's poem especially takes on quite a menacing shade when applied to Arya, with the nameless, faceless narrator pausing to watch someone or something from a vantage point unseen in the woods, the last few lines affirming the ‘promises to keep’ perhaps evoking her death wishlist, and the repetition like a mantra of the ‘miles to go before I sleep’ her untiring determination to fulfill those 'promises,' even unto death itself!

Inferno Canto I


In the middle of the journey of our life

I found myself astray in a dark wood

where the straight road had been lost sight of.

How hard it is to say what it was like

in the thick of thickets, in a wood so dense

and gnarled

the very thought of it renews my panic.

It is bitter almost as death itself is bitter.

But to rehearse the good it also brought me

I will speak about the other things I saw there.

How I got into it I cannot clearly say

for I was moving like a sleepwalker

the moment I stepped out of the right way,

But when I came to the bottom of a hill

standing off at the far end of that valley

where a great terror had disheartened me

I looked up, and saw how its shoulders glowed

already in the rays of the planet

which leads and keeps men straight on every road.

Then I sensed a quiet influence settling

into those depths in me that had been rocked

and pitifully troubled all night long

And as a survivor gasping on the sand

turns his head back to study in a daze

the dangerous combers, so my mind

Turned back, although it was reeling forward,

back to inspect a pass that had proved fatal

heretofore to everyone who entered.


DANTE ALIGHIERI

Translation:  SEAMUS HEANEY


From "Dante's Inferno: Translations by 20 Contemporary Poets" edited by Daniel Halpern). In this new translation, some of our finest contemporary poets, Amy Clampitt, Carolyn Forche, Robert Haas, Seamus Heaney, Galway Kinnell, W.S. Merwin, Robert Pinsky and Mark Strand to name a few, join forces in an effort to put, as Halpern says, "one of our 'sacred' texts back into the hands of the keepers of the language." 1993 by the Ecco Press.



The Way Through the Woods 


THEY shut the road through the woods 

Seventy years ago. 

Weather and rain have undone it again, 

And now you would never know 

There was once a road through the woods 

Before they planted the trees. 

It is underneath the coppice and heath, 

And the thin anemones. 

Only the keeper sees 

That, where the ring-dove broods, 

And the badgers roll at ease, 

There was once a road through the woods. 


Yet, if you enter the woods 

Of a summer evening late, 

When the night-air cools on the trout-ringed pools 

Where the otter whistles his mate, 

(They fear not men in the woods, 

Because they see so few.) 

You will hear the beat of a horse's feet, 

And the swish of a skirt in the dew, 

Steadily cantering through 

The misty solitudes, 

As though they perfectly knew 

The old lost road through the woods. 

But there is no road through the woods. 


RUDYARD KIPLING



Stopping by Woods on a Snowy Evening 


Whose woods these are I think I know. 

His house is in the village though; 

He will not see me stopping here 

To watch his woods fill up with snow. 


My little horse must think it queer 

To stop without a farmhouse near 

Between the woods and frozen lake 

The darkest evening of the year. 


He gives his harness bells a shake 

To ask if there is some mistake. 

The only other sound’s the sweep 

Of easy wind and downy flake. 


The woods are lovely, dark and deep, 

But I have promises to keep, 

And miles to go before I sleep, 

And miles to go before I sleep. 


ROBERT FROST

 

I think Arya is one of the most loved character because of her inner identity conflict: who am I?  Am I what my family wanted for me? Does my family reflect who I am? Am I autonomous or dipendent? Can I live without  bonds? Can I live without an identity, without my past? and so on ... These are questions everyone ask to him/herself. And the wood, the travel, the different roads to take,  are perfect icons of this inner fight. I love all the authors that use these symbolisms.