Rothfuss XII: The Doors of Twitch

[Myshkin]

It's as good a reason as any. 

[Darth Richard II]

Whoa, whoa, WHOA. Are you saying Rothfuss doesn't personally read every single post?

[baxus]

14 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Does the need to bash Rothfuss have to be the primary purpose to what was, originally, the thread for discussing Rothfuss' novels?

I'm pretty sure everyone would prefer discussing Doors of Stone. Alas, until that happens...

[Ninefingers]

On 3/19/2017 at 9:48 AM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I'm not contradicting you.  I'm saying your comment serves no purpose beyond, maybe, catharsis.

If serving a purpose is the litmus test, they might as well shut down the board and save the money they're spending on servers.

[Darth Richard II]

Pfft, you'd think GRRM personally thanked a bunch of people here in the ADOD dedication or something.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, Darth Richard II said:

Pfft, you'd think GRRM personally thanked a bunch of people here in the ADOD dedication or something.

I'm not among them.

[Darth Richard II]

Neither am I. Stupid restraining order!

(I'm kidding)

 

Really though, i love to shit on Rothfuss but even I think this is getting a bit ridiculous. At least wait for his next useless life is so hard update.

[unJon]

This thread got very meta. 

[Kyll.Ing.]

I'm starting to think that Kvothe's song to Felurian might have been metaphorical for the books themselves.

Start out brilliantly to get attention, let the quality fall somewhat over time, then insist you need to get more time, and to see the world, before the work can be finished. The promise of a satisfying conclusion after a strong build-up is a stronger driver for attention in the long run than the conclusion itself could ever be. Rothfuss has made an amazing set-up, and hinted at several awesome story moments and plot threads that tie the young, talented, confident Kvothe of the past to the broken barkeep hiding from a world at war in the present. The reader asks "where does it all go?" and "how does it get there?", just like Felurian being entranced by the beautiful opening to the song. But then it becomes... less stellar, the author excuses himself, and promises that the work will be delivered in time, if only the pressure to finish it quickly is taken away. Cue a bewildered audience entertaining itself with the possibilities of the conclusion, which is more entrancing than any definite conclusion would be by itself.

Put another way: We couldn't entertain ourselves with theory threads if every answer lay spelled out already. Rothfuss can almost be suspected to realize this, and to be playing off the effect, to make his books more entertaining to read and re-read. Letting the reader fill in the blanks, since that is more fun than serving a conclusive answer. Or put another way: Why ruin the possibilities opened for by a good set-up, by serving a definite answer to it all?

[Ninefingers]

I think Rothfuss is ultra aware of expectations created by his excellent start, which is leading to his anxiety, leading to re-writes attempting to meet those expectations, leading to delays, leading to more anxiety. Rinse, repeat.

[Myshkin]

I think Rothfuss is too close to his story to make an objective assessment of it, and I think his editors have failed him utterly by not doing their jobs and reining in his revisionist tendencies.

[Lord of Rhinos]

Rothfuss's editors really have no say over what he writes.  If he was a mid-list writer that'd have influence but at this point any publisher in the world would be happy to have Doors of Stone.  Rothfuss will only be edited as much as he wants to be edited.

[Darth Richard II]

Yeah that's not how publishing contracts work.

Edit: that's directed at LoR

[Myshkin]

1 hour ago, Lord of Rhinos said:

Rothfuss's editors really have no say over what he writes.  If he was a mid-list writer that'd have influence but at this point any publisher in the world would be happy to have Doors of Stone.  Rothfuss will only be edited as much as he wants to be edited.

Rothfuss ultimately chooses what he does or doesn't write, but his editors should have taken a much firmer hand with him earlier on. They did him a huge disservice by seemingly opting for a hands off approach instead.

[The Marquis de Leech]

39 minutes ago, Myshkin said:

Rothfuss ultimately chooses what he does or doesn't write, but his editors should have taken a much firmer hand with him earlier on. They did him a huge disservice by seemingly opting for a hands off approach instead.

Yep. There is a real problem when authors become Too Big to Edit.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

10 hours ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said:

Yep. There is a real problem when authors become Too Big to Edit.

No author should ever be "too big to edit" or marry their editor  

[kuenjato]

On 3/22/2017 at 5:44 AM, Kyll.Ing. said:

I'm starting to think that Kvothe's song to Felurian might have been metaphorical for the books themselves.

Start out brilliantly to get attention, let the quality fall somewhat over time, then insist you need to get more time, and to see the world, before the work can be finished. The promise of a satisfying conclusion after a strong build-up is a stronger driver for attention in the long run than the conclusion itself could ever be. Rothfuss has made an amazing set-up, and hinted at several awesome story moments and plot threads that tie the young, talented, confident Kvothe of the past to the broken barkeep hiding from a world at war in the present. The reader asks "where does it all go?" and "how does it get there?", just like Felurian being entranced by the beautiful opening to the song. But then it becomes... less stellar, the author excuses himself, and promises that the work will be delivered in time, if only the pressure to finish it quickly is taken away. Cue a bewildered audience entertaining itself with the possibilities of the conclusion, which is more entrancing than any definite conclusion would be by itself.

Put another way: We couldn't entertain ourselves with theory threads if every answer lay spelled out already. Rothfuss can almost be suspected to realize this, and to be playing off the effect, to make his books more entertaining to read and re-read. Letting the reader fill in the blanks, since that is more fun than serving a conclusive answer. Or put another way: Why ruin the possibilities opened for by a good set-up, by serving a definite answer to it all?

Pretty apt.

The first book has flaws a-plenty, but overall is one of those lightning-in-a-bottle texts delivered right when Potter was finishing and the audience was left adrift, still hardwired to magic schools and plucky protagonists. The possibilities presented by TNotW were intriguing, even for those less enchanted by some of the more obviously-amateurish elements of the first book; but much of that intrigue was spoiled or soiled with the release of TWMF. At this point it feels like resolution, the desire to complete something begun, is driving many of those beyond the fringe of the hardcore fan community. Alas, it is unlikely that many of the core mysteries or themes will be resolved with TDoS, given that there is another series projected and Rothfuss's tendency to keep his cards not just to his chest, but buried down somewhere in the pants.

[Lord of Rhinos]

On 3/22/2017 at 5:57 PM, Myshkin said:

Rothfuss ultimately chooses what he does or doesn't write, but his editors should have taken a much firmer hand with him earlier on. They did him a huge disservice by seemingly opting for a hands off approach instead.

If you've read interviews with him, he talks a lot about the changes he made to TNoTW due to requests from his agent and editors.  It isn't until the second book that he's able to start doing things his way.

[Myshkin]

And doing "things his way" has created the situation he now finds himself in. WMF was a significantly weaker book than NotW, precisely because he lacks either the will or ability to self edit. If his editors had pushed him harder not only would that book have been done sooner, it would in all likelihood have been a much stronger novel. Instead they let him do "things his way" and we all waited four years for a book that turned out to be grossly overwritten.

[Darth Richard II]

Whoa hey now, you saying 400 pages of ninja sex is too long?