How has word of Dany not reached Stannis?

[Lord Varys]

8 hours ago, Maxxine said:

Yeah I recognize that Varys' "reports" were part of the problem. I thought they got some more concrete information before the Dance epilogue but maybe not. But even in that epilogue they still give the dragons their proper due IMO. Dany & the dragons were more of a side note to the Aegon conversation. Of course Aegon is the more pressing issue since he's already in Westeros but the dragons are the biggest threat and they almost brush it off.

They would only be the biggest threat if Daenerys Targaryen actually intended to go to and conquer Westeros. Conquering Slaver's Bay is a strong sign that she has no such intentions - at least not at the moment. Mace Tyrell is pretty right there. And at that point they have more pressing matters that concern them. There is a deep and immediate mistrust between the Lannisters and the Tyrells and they have to deal with pretenders and rebels in Westeros (Stannis, Euron, and now also Aegon). Some potential threat thousands of leagues away isn't going to concern them all that much.

And the dragons in itself aren't so big a threat as weapons, either. It is their symbolic meaning that's dangerous. The Targaryens united the Realm and are the true kings of Westeros. Everybody knows that. If a Targaryen with dragons ever showed up in Westeros the likes of Tommen/Myrcella or Stannis could never hope to prevail.

It is basically the same as to assume that Elizabeth II's 'great charisma' could keep her on the British throne if King Arthur ever returned to England to reclaim his rightful throne.

We can guess at the effect a living dragon can have as powerful dynastic/political symbol by reading TMK. Daemon II Blackfyre's followers believe that a living dragon in their hands would quickly enough mean the end of the line of Daeron Falseborn. And it is quite likely that they were right in that regard.

8 hours ago, Maxxine said:

in regards to Tywin I'm not sure how he would've reacted to the dragons. I'd like to think he would recognized to true threat. He wouldn't panic but definitely putting an end to Dany & the dragons before they could become a actual threat would be top of the priority list. But with Dany alone I don't think he would've been too worried underestimating her bc she's a woman. He might send someone to kill her just to tie up the loose end but idk if it's a priority. Does he ever mention Dany once he gets to KL?

Tywin would have seen the symbolic power of the dragons and he would have done everything in his power to destroy them before they and Dany had reached Westeros.

[Maxxine]

6 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

They would only be the biggest threat if Daenerys Targaryen actually intended to go to and conquer Westeros. Conquering Slaver's Bay is a strong sign that she has no such intentions - at least not at the moment. Mace Tyrell is pretty right there. And at that point they have more pressing matters that concern them. There is a deep and immediate mistrust between the Lannisters and the Tyrells and they have to deal with pretenders and rebels in Westeros (Stannis, Euron, and now also Aegon). Some potential threat thousands of leagues away isn't going to concern them all that much.

And the dragons in itself aren't so big a threat as weapons, either. It is their symbolic meaning that's dangerous. The Targaryens united the Realm and are the true kings of Westeros. Everybody knows that. If a Targaryen with dragons ever showed up in Westeros the likes of Tommen/Myrcella or Stannis could never hope to prevail.

It is basically the same as to assume that Elizabeth II's 'great charisma' could keep her on the British throne if King Arthur ever returned to England to reclaim his rightful throne.

We can guess at the effect a living dragon can have as powerful dynastic/political symbol by reading TMK. Daemon II Blackfyre's followers believe that a living dragon in their hands would quickly enough mean the end of the line of Daeron Falseborn. And it is quite likely that they were right in that regard.

Tywin would have seen the symbolic power of the dragons and he would have done everything in his power to destroy them before they and Dany had reached Westeros.

You're right about the symbolic strength of the dragons but I think you're underestimating the literal strength of the dragons at least from pov of the people of in the small council. We as readers know that the dragons are not of the standard of Aegon's dragons bc of their size. But the small council doesn't know that. For all they know these are full grown deadly dragons just like Aegon. Yeah Aegon is a symbol of unity in westeros that people may rally around but he doesn't become that symbol without dragons. Dragons were the reason for Harrenhal & the field of fire. So brushing them off is weird to me bc you know full well what dragons can do when used in war.

I get there are more present issues especially since Dany is in Meereen. But you can't ignore the biggest threat just bc you have more immediate threats. Even if you defeat Aegon, Euron, Stannis etc if the dragons come it's not going to matter. Going with well she conquered Meereen so she's not going to come here just lacking critical thinking. I understand they have no way of knowing her intentions the way we do but they really think the daughter of the king you overthrew arguably by treachery who has dragons & unsullied (do they know about the unsullied) is going to be content with staying in Meereen forever and is never coming to Westeros. It's not a leap in logic  to think she's going to come eventually and its something need to address as a priority even though there are other immediate issues. 

[rotting sea cow]

1 hour ago, Maxxine said:

You're right about the symbolic strength of the dragons but I think you're underestimating the literal strength of the dragons at least from pov of the people of in the small council. We as readers know that the dragons are not of the standard of Aegon's dragons bc of their size. But the small council doesn't know that. For all they know these are full grown deadly dragons just like Aegon. Yeah Aegon is a symbol of unity in westeros that people may rally around but he doesn't become that symbol without dragons. Dragons were the reason for Harrenhal & the field of fire. So brushing them off is weird to me bc you know full well what dragons can do when used in war.

I get there are more present issues especially since Dany is in Meereen. But you can't ignore the biggest threat just bc you have more immediate threats. Even if you defeat Aegon, Euron, Stannis etc if the dragons come it's not going to matter. Going with well she conquered Meereen so she's not going to come here just lacking critical thinking. I understand they have no way of knowing her intentions the way we do but they really think the daughter of the king you overthrew arguably by treachery who has dragons & unsullied (do they know about the unsullied) is going to be content with staying in Meereen forever and is never coming to Westeros. It's not a leap in logic  to think she's going to come eventually and its something need to address as a priority even though there are other immediate issues. 

Well, Robert kind of recognized the threat of living Targaryens and sent assassins accordingly. They failed and soon after Dany dissapeared from the radar and Robert got killed. After, the Lannisters were fully committed to war, they were losing in the Riverlands and Blackwater was a close call. After Tywin was occupied with the peace arrangements and soon was killed only to be replaced by Cersei and an dismal council.

During all this time, the rumors of dragons were at best, 'sailor drunken tales', with no mention of Dany at all and often mixed with non-sense. How can you make policy under these conditions? The official recognition of this threat became only in Kevan epilogue in ADWD and now things are going to explode in Westeros. The Iron Throne are nearly powerless to do anything about Dany.

[Protagoras]

If I were a lord in Westeros I would care very little too. Rumors are rumors and there are wars to fight at this moment against very real armies. The discussion around Daenerys seems to be centered at harbors and especially in the more intellectual places like Oldtown, with a more "bohemian atmosphere". Stannis is most certainly not going to care unless he gets credible reports that she is in Westeros with an army, making a claim.

Even if Varys was truthful, what exactly is the news? Daenerys Targaryen has hatched living dragons and are at this moment going havoc on Essos, especially slavers bay, and wants to end slavery. She have said to be interested in conquering Westeros, but might not do so anyway. And her dragons are only a couple of years old. That´s the kind of news that you want your spymaster to watch closely, but not interfere (unless you are Robert and hate Targaryens) with at this moment. You put your people into good, strong positions around her and wait. Then, when she do a move, you trigger most of your hidden spies and assassins and, if they fail, you make sure that the rest figures out where her landing take place.

 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

There's really no point in discussing what  tywin would have done bc even if it meant leaving KL, Dany can't take the rock by dragon. He would hide the royals there and it would be civil war? Or he stays in KL and they get massacred and there's a civil war. Everyone opposing dragons more or less react the same (run for the best "cover") try to shoot eyes and scorpions and crossbows (if in range) 

Tywin would have recognized the value of CR against dragons 

[Lord Lannister]

Stannis has more immediate concerns much closer to home than to brood on incredible rumors from a world away. While we, the readers, know it's a legitimate threat, expecting Stannis to do anything about Dany is asking a bit much when he's barely holding his own claim to the Throne together against immediate opposition from both the elements and his enemies. It's not as if Stannis reacting to Dany would give us anything we don't already know as readers anyways. He can't do anything about it one way or the other.

[ThePrinceThatKnewNothing]

I think Mel's visions are for her to take her north. Visions of Dany would take her across the narrow sea. So maybe that's why Dany doesn't come up in her visions but comes up Moqorros instead 

[Bael's Bastard]

Not sure about Stannis, but Mel's lack of awareness or mention of Dany has always perplexed me. Is she intentionally steering clear of having any discussion about Dany, or is she actually ignorant about her last year or two of actions in Essos?

[rotting sea cow]

1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said:

Not sure about Stannis, but Mel's lack of awareness or mention of Dany has always perplexed me. Is she intentionally steering clear of having any discussion about Dany, or is she actually ignorant about her last year or two of actions in Essos?

See the previous page. She has seen the dragons but not clearly. Whatever is the metaphysical force behind her visions has a purpose for her and it is not related to Dany and her dragons. She doesn't control her visions.

But this raises a question about when Melisandre joined team Stannis. At the middle of tGoT a shadowbinder from Assai is mentioned, but somehow it seemed to me that Selyse converted earlier.