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Dany as Lightbringer


Amris

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I got to think about this in the 'Why Rhaegar might be the Prince that was Promised' thread and decided it might be worth its own topic. I have partly copied my post over from there - apologies for that - and expanded it some.

The premise is that Lightbringer the sword is not actually a sword but a metaphor for a person. That of course could be wrong. But it has been discussed as a possibility before and rightly so IMO. Yes, it is just a theory - but a theory worth thinking about.

Now IF the Lightbringer really was a person then Dany would be the leading candidate. Let me explain:

 

Darkness lay over the world and a hero, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over.

The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered.

The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.

Dany as Lightbringer

1) According to the legend above three tries were needed to forge Lightbringer. So if we play with the idea that the sword is a metaphor and Lightbringer is a person than it stands to reason that the Lightbringer person would be the third of three children (the older two being the failed tries).

Dany has two older siblings who could be the 'failed tries'. Rhaegar and Viserys. And of course in the HotU Dany is referred to as 'Child of Three'. This would fit.

2) The three forgings took progressively longer

According to legend the forging of the first sword took 30 days and nights, the second forging 50 days and nights, the third forging a whooping 100 days and nights. Do we have a similarity in the 'forging' of the three children of Aerys and Rhaella? Well - we know that after Rhaegar's birth it got progressively harder for Aerys and Rhaella to produce more kids (that survived long that is). So this is a similarity. Although picturing making kids as Azor Ahai's 'labor' would be rather ironic.

3) The first sword burst when it was being tempered in water

Aerys' and Rhaella's firstborn - Rhaegar - actually died in water (in the Ruby Ford). It checks.

4) The second sword brust when being thrust through the heart of a captured lion

As we know Aerys' and Rhaella's second child - Viserys - also died. I admit I find it somewhat hard to connect Viserys' death to being plunged into a Lion's heart. However we do have at least a little to work on:

During the time of Viserys' conception and birth Aerys seemed to have had an affair with Joanna Lannister (Joanna as lion pierced through the heart by Aerys?) and Aerys was continually busy killing his former friendship with his Hand Tywin (metaphorically piercing Tywin through the heart?). I would wish for a better lion fit but it's something.

5) The final sword being plunged into the living heart of Nissa Nissa

Finally we have Dany - Aerys' and Rhaella's third child - who as we know not only survives but actually thrives and is the most closely linked to fire character in the whole series. If any person can be metaphorically equalled with a fiery sword it would be Dany IMO. Much more so than Jon at any rate. AND of course Dany's mother Rhaella died during Dany's birth after being 'pierced' by her husband (Nissa Nissa sacrifice)

Consequences:

This would give us the Mad King Aerys as an Azor Ahai precursor and as the person who actually forged Lightbringer. That would be supremely ironic (did I mention that already?).

Unfortunately it would make it necessary for us to assume that the Azor Ahai who forges the 'sword' (Aerys) and the Azor Ahai who wields the 'sword' (Jon) aren't the same person. I admit that's a drawback. But I don't think it rules the theory out.

Despite Benero's claim and the various signs pointing to Dany she would actually NOT be Azor Ahai. Jon would be. Granted: This is a disadvantage insofar as Dany is prime Azor Ahai material. By the same token it has the advantage that we wouldn't be stuck with two Azor Ahais at the same time. And Jon also is an excellent candidate, especially since we definitely know that the fires did show him to Melisandre when she asked for a glimpse of Azor Ahai. So this is not just some claim or invention for political or other reasons or some of Mel's wishful thinking: No, Melisandre got shown Jon even though she did not even want Jon to be Azor Ahai at that point. Also Jon - as has been pointed out many times - is literally a 'Promised Prince' since we all know what Lyanna said to Ned. That would fit nicely with him in the Azor Ahai role.

Dany's and Jon's functions in the story would work well together:

Jon and Dany would be complementary pieces in the story. Only together would they be the weapon that prevails in the end - he as the 'wielder', she as the 'fiery sword'. To me that has story potential and would make sense - more sense than having two Azor Ahais.

All of that being said of course this is only a theory and may be completely off. Or maybe not. Anyway it is fun thinking through.

***

BTW: Even though I used the search function and did not find a thread exactly like this I can hardly believe this topic has not been discussed before. It probably has and likely several times. So if you find a prior thread please give me a link so I can add it and give earlier posters their due.

 

 

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As I haven't been long here I don't know if this has been posted before.

 

I quite enjoyed reading this theory, maybe the Viserys part is a bit weak admittedly, but I love theories who are not as literal as the prophecy.

Other than that i can't really add much, so many people "seem" to fit somewhat Azor Ahai or Lightbringer. I just prefer when it is something unexpected and not so literal (like Lightbringer being a sword on fire again, though that would prove pretty useful against the wights and some other believers of R'hllor can already make fire swords).

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12 hours ago, Lifestream said:

As I haven't been long here I don't know if this has been posted before.

 

I quite enjoyed reading this theory, maybe the Viserys part is a bit weak admittedly, but I love theories who are not as literal as the prophecy.

Other than that i can't really add much, so many people "seem" to fit somewhat Azor Ahai or Lightbringer. I just prefer when it is something unexpected and not so literal (like Lightbringer being a sword on fire again, though that would prove pretty useful against the wights and some other believers of R'hllor can already make fire swords).

Thank you - I appreciate it and am glad you enjoyed it!

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Daenerys is the only person who fulfills all of the requirements for Azor Ahai, including the signature sign, "wake dragons from stone."  Which she fulfilled.  To me, Dany is Azor Ahai reborn and Drogo is her Nissa Nissa.

I don't think Aerys is AA but for entertainment let's consider him.  I would rework your theory like this:

1)  Plunging his sword is another term for plunging the penis.  In other words, Azor Ahai impaled his women with his penis. 

2)  Rhaegar was the first sword but died in the water.  Good catch there.  Notice though that Rhaella didn't die.  The sword died, or shattered.

3)  Tyrion is the second sword.  Joanna Lannister, the lion, died.  The sword is still alive.  I believe Tyrion is a Targaryen bastard.  Her death paid for Tyrion's life.

4)  Daenerys is the third sword.  The third child.  Rhaella's death paid for Dany's life.  Daenerys lived and she brought back the dragons.

 

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There is no particular Lightbringer or no particular AA, but Dany will fit the bill somewhat for both, they're loose guidelines on what is going to happen.

Drogon will lose his fire, his innards will turn to stone. To try and return his fire Dany will try to have a child which she can sacrifice. The more Valyrian/Targaryen the blood of the father the better, as it will be the child's blood of a kraken father that will extinguish Drogon's flame, Euron's. This is where the AA story kicks in.

Quote

Darkness lay over the world and a hero, Azor Ahai, was chosen to fight against it. To fight the darkness, Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword. He labored for thirty days and thirty nights until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. He was not one to give up easily, so he started over.

The forging of the sword represent Dany's attempt to return her dragon to a proper fire breathing dragon that will prove an appropriate weapon against the Others. The sword forging is Dany attempting to become pregnant. The labouring represents sex and literal childbearing labour. The Water represents the first father she will choose, Aurane Waters, chosen for his Valyrian bloodline. The sword breaking is symbolic of Dany miscarrying.

So, Dany will choose Aurane Waters to impregnate her for the purpose of sacrificing the child in the belief it will return Drogon's fire, but the she will miscarriage and it will be a failure.

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The second time he took fifty days and fifty nights to make the sword, even better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered.

Same thing again but with Tyrion. Tyrion will ride Viserion and so she'll believe him to be of Targaryen blood. Same result, she'll carry the child longer but she will again miscarry. Note the lion's heart, Dany is going to break Tyrion's heart.

Now, the third part won't play out as per the AA story, though that will be her intentions.

Quote

The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, he worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.

Jon is your Nissa Nissa, prime Targaryen blood. Dany falls pregnant by Jon (through trickery, that is the treason for love, Jon commits treason against her king, Jon, by using his love to trick him into it). It works and she carries the child to term, the sacred fiery temple is her womb and Jon's seed survives it, fire consumes, cold preserves.

However she does not get to sacrifice the child, probably Jon prevents it, and then Dany's going to die.

Now Dany becomes Nissa Nissa. What she thought she needed a child to do, she doesn't. She's a true Targaryen, the last dragon, and she has already sacrificed a Targ child to allow passage into the fiery heart of the dragon, Rhaego. So when Dany dies she will awaken in the second life inside Drogon, cast out the Euron Kraken/Salt Water/Stone influence and return the dragon's fire. She becomes Lightbringer.

Hence the PWP prophesy. Dany will believe to wake Drogon from stone she will need to sacrifice a child and king, king's blood, two kings to wake the dragon, etc, that's what she was trying to do.

It is why in Dany's waking the dragon dream her Targaryen blood melts away the stone.
 

Quote

 

"You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?"

She was walking down a long hall beneath high stone arches. She could not look behind her, must not look behind her. There was a door ahead of her, tiny with distance, but even from afar, she saw that it was painted red. She walked faster, and her bare feet left bloody footprints on the stone.

....

Ghosts lined the hallway, dressed in the faded raiment of kings. In their hands were swords of pale fire. They had hair of silver and hair of gold and hair of platinum white, and their eyes were opal and amethyst, tourmaline and jade. "Faster," they cried, "faster, faster." She raced, her feet melting the stone wherever they touched. "Faster!" the ghosts cried as one, and she screamed and threw herself forward. A great knife of pain ripped down her back, and she felt her skin tear open and smelled the stench of burning blood and saw the shadow of wings. And Daenerys Targaryen flew.

 

She melts away the stone, becomes a dragon. Targs who have come before her, those who have second lifed dragons are spurring her on to do the same. This is what fire and blood means, this is how dragons were ever ridden, is why Valyrians called themselves kin to the dragons they rode.

It is her red door, the door between her current existence and second lifing a dragon, the red door is her death and rebirth. The shadow she must path beneath, death, to touch the light, reigniting Drogon's flame in the second life. 

It's why the dragons must have three heads. Dany will think it means Drogo, Euron and then the last who she is trying to find. But really the three heads are Drogo, Rhaego and herself. Drogo and Rhaego are already inside Drogon, providing his fire, Euron will join them and extinguish that fire, then Dany will join inside Drogon and remove Euron and bring her own fire. Thus Drogo, Rhaego and herself are the three heads, the three living second lives within the dragon (think what the show used as the HOTU vision.) Hence why Drogo will return to her, as he was, but only after she has had a living child.

It's why we get this little nugget.

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"Sweet?" Qavo laughed. "If even half the stories coming back from Slaver's Bay are true, this child is a monster. They say that she is bloodthirsty, that those who speak against her are impaled on spikes to die lingering deaths. They say she is a sorceress who feeds her dragons on the flesh of newborn babes, an oathbreaker who mocks the gods, breaks truces, threatens envoys, and turns on those who have served her loyally. They say her lust cannot be sated, that she mates with men, women, eunuchs, even dogs and children, and woe betide the lover who fails to satisfy her. She gives her body to men to take their souls in thrall."

Which is what Dany will do to Aurane and Tyrion, and attempt to do to Jon. She will bed them because she needs their souls.

And it's why the burning obsidian candles (put a hilt on these things and you got Lightbringer, a burning blade) is conflated with a dragon's fire.
 

Quote

 

"Call it dragonglass." Archmaester Marwyn glanced at the candle for a moment. "It burns but is not consumed."

"What feeds the flame?" asked Sam.

"What feeds a dragon's fire?" Marwyn seated himself upon a stool. "All Valyrian sorcery was rooted in blood or fire. The sorcerers of the Freehold could see across mountains, seas, and deserts with one of these glass candles. They could enter a man's dreams and give him visions, and speak to one another half a world apart, seated before their candles. Do you think that might be useful, Slayer?"

 

Blood feeds the dragon's fire, feeds the obsidian, feeds Lightbringer, Valyrian sorcery through blood sacrifice.

And so on and so on, the answer for basically every prophesy and mystery goes back to dragons can, have been and will be again second lifed. Euron's horn, PTWP, AA, Sphinxes, Lightbringer, MMD's stuff, her dragon dreams.

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10 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

Daenerys is the only person who fulfills all of the requirements for Azor Ahai, including the signature sign, "wake dragons from stone."  Which she fulfilled.  To me, Dany is Azor Ahai reborn and Drogo is her Nissa Nissa.

I don't think Aerys is AA but for entertainment let's consider him.  I would rework your theory like this:

1)  Plunging his sword is another term for plunging the penis.  In other words, Azor Ahai impaled his women with his penis. 

2)  Rhaegar was the first sword but died in the water.  Good catch there.  Notice though that Rhaella didn't die.  The sword died, or shattered.

3)  Tyrion is the second sword.  Joanna Lannister, the lion, died.  The sword is still alive.  I believe Tyrion is a Targaryen bastard.  Her death paid for Tyrion's life.

4)  Daenerys is the third sword.  The third child.  Rhaella's death paid for Dany's life.  Daenerys lived and she brought back the dragons.

 

T

 

Tyrion I have thought about also since Joanna would make an excellent 'lion pierced through the heart'. The problem we have then though is with Viserys we would have 4 'forged swords', not 3.

Just ignoring Viserys to make the numbers fit the prophecy is unsatisfying. That's a bit of 'if a clue does not fit just pretend it does not exist'. 

That's why I rather go with Viserys as the 2nd forged sword. Tyrion as a half-Targ is just speculation after all.

Unless of course it turns out Viserys is not in fact Aerys' child. But I have never seen any clue pointing in that direction.

 

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2 hours ago, Amris said:

Tyrion I have thought about also since Joanna would make an excellent 'lion pierced through the heart'. The problem we have then though is with Viserys we would have 4 'forged swords', not 3.

Just ignoring Viserys to make the numbers fit the prophecy is unsatisfying. That's a bit of 'if a clue does not fit just pretend it does not exist'

That's why I rather go with Viserys as the 2nd forged sword. Tyrion as a half-Targ is just speculation after all.

Unless of course it turns out Viserys is not in fact Aerys' child. But I have never seen any clue pointing in that direction.

I will agree with that. Pretending that Viserys did not exist is kind of sloppy. However, Jorah does say that, "Viserys is less than the shadow of a snake."

If one interprets what Benerro says to Tyrion, "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of it all." as Tyrion is a dragon too, then you can discount Viserys from the total. However I do not buy the theory that Tyrion is Aerys' son.

 

I do not think that anyone will dispute that Viserys was Aerys' son. there are too many similarities in their behavior to say otherwise.

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