Most Gothic Character in ASOIAF?

[MaybeINeverSawACamel]

On December 23, 2016 at 1:16 AM, Orphalesion said:

 

Ah! Very true! The show with all the Mediterranean sunshine and lavender shrubs has kinda ruined the Red Keep as a "foreboding" structure for me :-P 

I wouldn't call "I want to save my sister from a crazy torture rapist" an "obsession", plus Jon hasn't met his "demise" yet ;-)

What? Ramsay is just a guys's guy who likes hunting and craves his father's approval. 

[Batbob45]

Shireen and Patchface(Westeros' Addams family)-Shireen is the disfigured kid that doesn't fit in with Westero's     society, She also lived in a gloomy castle with gargoyles as statue(Gargoyles is a big gothic trope).She had dreams about dragons and Patchface is like her Lurch.She lived in a castlewith her fire obsessed mom and   a fire loving witch.Patchface is a creepy Fool(even Mel is scare of him) who can predict events. He also got reborn underwater.

[ShadowCat Rivers]

31 minutes ago, Batbob45 said:

Shireen and Patchface(Westeros' Addams family)-Shireen is the disfigured kid that doesn't fit in with Westero's     society, She also lived in a gloomy castle with gargoyles as statue(Gargoyles is a big gothic trope).She had dreams about dragons and Patchface is like her Lurch.She lived in a castlewith her fire obsessed mom and   a fire loving witch.Patchface is a creepy Fool(even Mel is scare of him) who can predict events. He also got reborn underwater.

Shireen and Patchface give a Tim Burton characters' feeling. Quite gothic indeed.

[dsug]

On 12/23/2016 at 2:16 AM, Orphalesion said:

 

Ah! Very true! The show with all the Mediterranean sunshine and lavender shrubs has kinda ruined the Red Keep as a "foreboding" structure for me :-P 

I wouldn't call "I want to save my sister from a crazy torture rapist" an "obsession", plus Jon hasn't met his "demise" yet ;-)

I think the show was aiming for a juxtaposition between the pretty landscapes and the horror that takes place within them. Either way, I agree that the giant spiky throne and the cellars filled with dragon skulls are gothic indeed. 

[Seams]

On 12/21/2016 at 2:25 AM, Orphalesion said:

This makes me wonder whether you have even read Wuthering Heights and what definition of "Gothic" you are working of....

A "Gothic" character, in the literary sense, has nothing to do with being depressed, wearing black or the modern "Goth" subculture in its various forms or permutations.

Plus Heathcliff imho, isn't as much "depressed" as "obsessed"  (he only really gets mopey at the very end, when it turns out his lifelong scheme of revenge was all for naught) which IS a trait of a Gothic character. However Jon and Heathcliff have nothing in common. The character who is most alike to Heathcliff in ASoIaF  is actually Littlefinger.

Both pretty low on the social hierarchy, both in love with a daughter of the family they grew up with, both eventually scorned and disappear from the lives of the girls they claim to love, only to reappear years later with fabulous wealth,  their love turned to obsession and with some mad scheme to take destructive revenge on....pretty much everything and everyone. Some details might be different, but they are remarkably similar. Littlefinger definitely does have a "darkly sexual" presence. Like with Heathcliff the acquisition of his wealth, along with his ability to manipulate people and his cunning, can be counted as supernatural traits. And if we believe the prophecy of the maiden defeating the giant of snow, he might also already be doomed.

I'd argue that Lysa also very well represents the themes of madness and insanity that permeate Gothic literature....

Yes. All of this comment and analysis of the Littlefinger / Catelyn / Lysa story fits my thinking about Gothic literary conventions.

My immediate thought on seeing the title of this thread was, "Catelyn / Lady Stoneheart" as the most Gothic character. Then the discussion got into the stuff about heroes and high-born origins and I realized we had different ideas about what Gothic means.

The story line with Littlefinger as a parallel to Wuthering Heights came to my mind, but Catelyn's arranged, sudden marriage to the Quiet Wolf could also be compared to Jane Eyre going off to be governess at the strange and creepy Thornfield Hall, and subsequently falling in love with the Lord of the castle, Ned / Mr. Rochester. Hmm - there are Reeds, Pooles and Masons in Jane Eyre. (Mason = House :: Cassel = Castle?)

Then again, Jane Eyre puts out a fire burning Mr. Rochester in a way similar to Jon Snow saving LC Mormont from the wight. In Catelyn's arc, Ned's unknown lover - the supposed mother of Jon Snow - could be the mysterious other woman in Mr. Rochester's life. If Lysa is the insane wife of Mr. Rochester, though, that would also put Sansa in the Jane Eyre role. Maybe there is more than a little basis for comparison between the Bronte novel and the GRRM books?

(I had just started to put more serious thought into the Jeyne-Jenny and Willow motif of linked characters. Maybe Jane Eyre was an inspiration for GRRM's thinking about these heroines? This could be getting interesting.)

The tragic deaths (and believed-to-be deaths) of Catelyn's children, the supernatural rebirth as Lady Stoneheart (Quasimodo: "Why was I not made of stone - like thee?") as well as the parallels to Alyssa's tears (another statue) also struck me as Gothic elements. Lord Beric Dondarrion seems to me to be the closest thing to the Victorian hero - true to his noble mission and sacrificing his life to "save" the woman who was wronged.

To the OP, though: Catelyn and Cersei were the two characters I immediately linked in my mind on my first reading of the books. They are both mothers of kings, both lose children, both try to direct Sansa, both seek retribution for the deaths of their children. So it's not a surprise that they would share elements of Gothic literary traditions.