Dorian's blood oranges

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

 Why does he wince every time a blood orange drops and pops on the ground?  Is he thinking of oberyn vs Gregor?  Sorry I'm terrible with symbolism to be honest 

[rotting sea cow]

4 minutes ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

 Why does he wince every time a blood orange drops and pops on the ground?  Is he thinking of oberyn vs Gregor?  Sorry I'm terrible with symbolism to be honest 

The blood oranges means revenge, it's pretty plain. Probably, he's picturing his enemies.

[Ser Walter of AShwood]

It could refer to the 'blood' of innocent people being drawn into the 'game of thrones'.
The orange trees are in the watergardens, a place where all children of Dorne can gather and play and be equals, a place where Doran explains to Arianne that these innocent children are her task to protect. Young, innocent and sweet.

The sweet blood oranges falling to the ground could therefore also imply the victims of the impending war, however 'sweet' revenge (especially since the blood oranges are overripe) is also a very good explanation.

[aryagonnakill#2]

My personal impression is that it shows how Doran played too long a game.  The overripe blood oranges fall to the ground because they were not picked in time, and he missed his opportunity.

He could have provided Viserys and Danaerys more support so they at least knew of the marriage contract, he could've provided Quentyn more support on his journey, he could've joined Renly, he could've joined Stannis, etc. etc.

Had his forces attack Stannis at Storms End Renly would not have been there to die, had his forces invaded the Reach when Stannis marched on Kings Landing it would've been a much more interesting battle outside the city and even a victory for the Lannisters likely would have been phyric resulting in Robb coming down on them.

Every one of those blood oranges is an opportunity he missed.  Now Tywin is dead, Gregor is dead, Lorch is dead, but Doran had no part in any of it.

[Clegane'sPup]

Doran had received word that Oberyn had been killed in KL. He knew that Oberyn’s children would want blood for Oberyn’s death and shortly after that Obara shows up demanding retribution.

Maybe he took the overripe oranges falling from the tree as a sign that it is past time for him take action.  I don’t remember all the details but later in the story it is revealed there had been a marriage pact arranged a long ago.

Or, I can’t help myself, I gotta say it;  he just didn’t like the idea of those oranges staining his marble floor.

Ser Walter ^ and arya#2  made some good points.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

foreshadowing of the great tragedy that will be Dorne entering the war for Aegon.

 

i think Dany will destroy the water gardens, Dorans favorite place and the constant reminder of his duty to protect the children.

[Seams]

The falling fruit in Dorne should be examined in the context of other fruit in the books.

The blood orange made an important appearance at the last Stark family meal in King's Landing, when Arya threw a blood orange at Sansa. I think the blood orange was foreshadowing the beheading of Ned Stark, which really does fall on Sansa because she is the one who told Joffrey and Cersei that her father was planning to secretly flee the city. If Sansa had followed Ned's orders and kept their departure a secret, he and the girls might have gotten away safely and a number of tragedies could have been prevented. The stain that the orange causes on Sansa's dress requires her to dye the dress black, and she continues to wear the black dress as a sign of mourning for the dead king Robert. So the symbolism of the dead father and the king are carried forward from the orange to the stained dress to the black dress of mourning.

Later, Sansa is humiliated before the court with a ripe melon that is bashed over her head, causing melon juice to go all over her hair and face and the dress that she specifically chose because Joffrey liked the color. This time, she doesn't mind the fruit juice: it is intended to divert Joffrey's attention from his desire for revenge on Robb Stark, who defeated the Lannister forces in battle. The melon doesn't work as intended however, and Joffrey has Sansa stripped and beaten. But the melon may, again, foreshadow the death of a king as Robb will soon be beheaded and Joffrey's number will be up not long after that. (Although the fruit that represents Joffrey's death may be the fake beheading / melon head that is part of the mummer-dwarf jousting act at Joffrey's wedding feast.)

So it's possible that the blood oranges in Dorne represent the royal Martells who died in King's Landing. Prince Doran was unable to save his sister and her children, sort of like he is unable to get up from his chair and harvest the fruit before it splats on the ground. (The books frequently remind us that the baby presumed to be Prince Aegon has his brains dashed against a wall. I fear that this may foreshadow the eventual fate of the young man known as Young Griff.)

Interestingly, though, Prince Doran's painful, swollen joints are described in terms of over-ripe pieces of fruit. I think this is where the revenge symbolism comes in. The Martell family is nursing its anger, plotting revenge. Prince Doran literally feels it in his bones every second of every day; it is a part of him. Which monarch is represented by the "overripe fruit" ready to be plucked from Prince Doran's pain?

If you know the William Blake poem, A Poison Tree, it is probably an inspiration for some of the symbolism GRRM is using here.

For what it's worth, I see parallels between Prince Doran, who appears to be sitting around doing nothing (but who is secretly orchestrating a complex plan with many moving parts) and Bloodraven, who appears to be sitting in a cave (but who is secretly spying on the entire world and sending out ravens and other communications to manipulate things behind the scenes). I don't know if there is an equivalent of blood oranges in Bloodraven's cave, but he is probably upset about the same coup and murders that are on Prince Doran's mind, and he may be focused on the same enemies.

[Jon Fossoway]

49 minutes ago, Seams said:

when Arya threw a blood orange at Sansa. I think the blood orange was foreshadowing the beheading of Ned Stark, which really does fall on Sansa because she is the one who told Joffrey and Cersei that her father was planning to secretly flee the city.

This sounds almost absurd. There are far more not-that-symbolic explanations for that (if there is any), as aryagonnakill's ones. 

 

 

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

2 hours ago, Seams said:

The falling fruit in Dorne should be examined in the context of other fruit in the books.

The blood orange made an important appearance at the last Stark family meal in King's Landing, when Arya threw a blood orange at Sansa. I think the blood orange was foreshadowing the beheading of Ned Stark, which really does fall on Sansa because she is the one who told Joffrey and Cersei that her father was planning to secretly flee the city. If Sansa had followed Ned's orders and kept their departure a secret, he and the girls might have gotten away safely and a number of tragedies could have been prevented. The stain that the orange causes on Sansa's dress requires her to dye the dress black, and she continues to wear the black dress as a sign of mourning for the dead king Robert. So the symbolism of the dead father and the king are carried forward from the orange to the stained dress to the black dress of mourning.

Later, Sansa is humiliated before the court with a ripe melon that is bashed over her head, causing melon juice to go all over her hair and face and the dress that she specifically chose because Joffrey liked the color. This time, she doesn't mind the fruit juice: it is intended to divert Joffrey's attention from his desire for revenge on Robb Stark, who defeated the Lannister forces in battle. The melon doesn't work as intended however, and Joffrey has Sansa stripped and beaten. But the melon may, again, foreshadow the death of a king as Robb will soon be beheaded and Joffrey's number will be up not long after that. (Although the fruit that represents Joffrey's death may be the fake beheading / melon head that is part of the mummer-dwarf jousting act at Joffrey's wedding feast.)

So it's possible that the blood oranges in Dorne represent the royal Martells who died in King's Landing. Prince Doran was unable to save his sister and her children, sort of like he is unable to get up from his chair and harvest the fruit before it splats on the ground. (The books frequently remind us that the baby presumed to be Prince Aegon has his brains dashed against a wall. I fear that this may foreshadow the eventual fate of the young man known as Young Griff.)

Interestingly, though, Prince Doran's painful, swollen joints are described in terms of over-ripe pieces of fruit. I think this is where the revenge symbolism comes in. The Martell family is nursing its anger, plotting revenge. Prince Doran literally feels it in his bones every second of every day; it is a part of him. Which monarch is represented by the "overripe fruit" ready to be plucked from Prince Doran's pain?

If you know the William Blake poem, A Poison Tree, it is probably an inspiration for some of the symbolism GRRM is using here.

For what it's worth, I see parallels between Prince Doran, who appears to be sitting around doing nothing (but who is secretly orchestrating a complex plan with many moving parts) and Bloodraven, who appears to be sitting in a cave (but who is secretly spying on the entire world and sending out ravens and other communications to manipulate things behind the scenes). I don't know if there is an equivalent of blood oranges in Bloodraven's cave, but he is probably upset about the same coup and murders that are on Prince Doran's mind, and he may be focused on the same enemies.

I think you missed the most important blood orange symbolism.  There is a scene where LF is trying to keep his fingers clean while eating a blood orange, but fails.  Sansa uses a spoon.  Symbolizing that she will surpass him in skill, and will in fact keep her hands clean not making enemies the way he did.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

1 minute ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I think you missed the most important blood orange symbolism.  There is a scene where LF is trying to keep his fingers clean while eating a blood orange, but fails.  Sansa uses a spoon.  Symbolizing that she will surpass him in skill, and will in fact keep her hands clean not making enemies the way he did.

Wow! Nice catch. 

[Seams]

4 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I think you missed the most important blood orange symbolism.  There is a scene where LF is trying to keep his fingers clean while eating a blood orange, but fails.  Sansa uses a spoon.  Symbolizing that she will surpass him in skill, and will in fact keep her hands clean not making enemies the way he did.

I wasn't trying to provide an exhaustive examination of all blood oranges and fruits, just an example or two. But that is a significant moment, and it may underscore the connection between royal deaths and the appearance of blood oranges in the narrative: Sansa and Littlefinger are discussing who poisoned Joffrey while they eat.

[John Suburbs]

12 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

My personal impression is that it shows how Doran played too long a game.  The overripe blood oranges fall to the ground because they were not picked in time, and he missed his opportunity.

He could have provided Viserys and Danaerys more support so they at least knew of the marriage contract, he could've provided Quentyn more support on his journey, he could've joined Renly, he could've joined Stannis, etc. etc.

Had his forces attack Stannis at Storms End Renly would not have been there to die, had his forces invaded the Reach when Stannis marched on Kings Landing it would've been a much more interesting battle outside the city and even a victory for the Lannisters likely would have been phyric resulting in Robb coming down on them.

Every one of those blood oranges is an opportunity he missed.  Now Tywin is dead, Gregor is dead, Lorch is dead, but Doran had no part in any of it.

 

7 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I think you missed the most important blood orange symbolism.  There is a scene where LF is trying to keep his fingers clean while eating a blood orange, but fails.  Sansa uses a spoon.  Symbolizing that she will surpass him in skill, and will in fact keep her hands clean not making enemies the way he did.

I think you nailed it, both times.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

15 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I think you missed the most important blood orange symbolism.  There is a scene where LF is trying to keep his fingers clean while eating a blood orange, but fails.  Sansa uses a spoon.  Symbolizing that she will surpass him in skill, and will in fact keep her hands clean not making enemies the way he did.

Ohhhh shhhhhh. Nice!!!

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

19 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

My personal impression is that it shows how Doran played too long a game.  The overripe blood oranges fall to the ground because they were not picked in time, and he missed his opportunity.

He could have provided Viserys and Danaerys more support so they at least knew of the marriage contract, he could've provided Quentyn more support on his journey, he could've joined Renly, he could've joined Stannis, etc. etc.

Had his forces attack Stannis at Storms End Renly would not have been there to die, had his forces invaded the Reach when Stannis marched on Kings Landing it would've been a much more interesting battle outside the city and even a victory for the Lannisters likely would have been phyric resulting in Robb coming down on them.

Every one of those blood oranges is an opportunity he missed.  Now Tywin is dead, Gregor is dead, Lorch is dead, but Doran had no part in any of it.

I like this answer the best the bold is too true 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

11 hours ago, Seams said:

I wasn't trying to provide an exhaustive examination of all blood oranges and fruits, just an example or two. But that is a significant moment, and it may underscore the connection between royal deaths and the appearance of blood oranges in the narrative: Sansa and Littlefinger are discussing who poisoned Joffrey while they eat.

I see that you've pondered this yourself and thank you for the reply. It's very odd how many connections there are to fruit and nobility dying 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

18 hours ago, LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse said:

foreshadowing of the great tragedy that will be Dorne entering the war for Aegon.

 

i think Dany will destroy the water gardens, Dorans favorite place and the constant reminder of his duty to protect the children.

That would break him. Those kids extremely important to Doran.

[White Ravens]

Splat!  Overipe plans for revenge.  Splat! Splat!

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

On December 19, 2016 at 2:26 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I think you missed the most important blood orange symbolism.  There is a scene where LF is trying to keep his fingers clean while eating a blood orange, but fails.  Sansa uses a spoon.  Symbolizing that she will surpass him in skill, and will in fact keep her hands clean not making enemies the way he did.

Wow I like that.

[talvikorppi]

I think the overripe blood oranges were a comment on Prince Doran. Nurse a grievance, make a grand conspiracy, but it might be too late. By "late", I mean "notimmediate"

 

[cyberdirectorfreedom]

For a less symbolic reason, it's entirely possible that he tensed and jumped at the sudden sound, and with his rather severe gout that'd likely be quite painful.