BigFatCoward Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I've been worried for a very long time that terrorists would work out how much damage you can do with a vehicle, which doesn 't get you flagged. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38373867 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I was at the Munich Christmas markets yesterday. The two cities are a long way away from each other, but it gave me pause. Thoughts are with the families of those affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 First things first: so far, there's no indication that it was a terrorist attack so can we please not stoop to the Daily Mail's level on this? I'm a little worried, coz a couple I know- who like Christmas markets- live somewhere near there I think, and I don't have any contact details to check in, so fingers crossed. Pretty shocked, just got back from Star Wars (on holiday at home) and got in to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tijgy Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 My thoughts and condolences are with the family. I hope all ranters living in Berlin or going there on a holiday are safe. - Eum, in the similar way to quatorze juilliet in Nice, a truck is being drove into a Christmas Market near a Church Memorial which is a symbol for peace and is reminder against the horrors of war. A lot of witnesses are saying the truck made no intention to stop. The manager and the wife of the chauffeur lost any contact with the (Polish) chauffeur since 4.00 p.m local time. He was found in the cabine after the incident - not behind the steering wheel. So why was he not behind the wheel? (Because his truck might have been highjacked?) And according to eye witnesses the chauffeur rode two times in the public. So personally I would think there are a lot of indications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Still too early but likelihood of this being s deliberate attack with Islamist background is growing. Man...I am speechless at the moment. A Christmas market... there couldn't be an attack on any other place with such an impact Everyone in Germany goes to Christmas markets, no matter nationality, creed or other stuff. It's a place of peace and joy where you go with your friends, family or work colleagues to have a good time, to laugh, to have fun, to feel good. man man man...this world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 It's very sad, I dont know much about the details of this tragedy, but my heart aches for all the victims and their loved ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Official statements and press reports are still guarded but there's no way this was an accident. I haven't seen any photos of Breitscheidtplatz itself yet but from the position of the lorry it must have run straight across the square. Apparently the original driver was mugged when the lorry was stolen from a construction site in Poland. The presumed perpetrator fled but was apprehended near Grosser Stern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 As of 09:00 am CET we can say that this was a terrorist attack. The attacker stole the truck Monday afternoon. Apparently he was a 23 year old asylum seeker from Pakistan or Afghanistan who entered Germany on 31.12.2015. He is alive. I don't give a shit about his childhood or if he was traumatized or whatever crap. Already saw some statements in this direction from the usual suspects...This person is a human lowlife on the same level as a child murderer. Our country gave its hand to help him and this is his "thank you". Human scum this is what he is. I am shocked, I am angry and I don't know what to say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkhangel Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Has the information about him being an asylum seeker from Afghanistan/Pakistan actually been confirmed by police? It's been being reported by a handful of (mostly Murdoch) English language media outlets for hours, but only based on unconfirmed German language media reports AFAIK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 25 minutes ago, Arkhangel said: Has the information about him being an asylum seeker from Afghanistan/Pakistan actually been confirmed by police? It's been being reported by a handful of (mostly Murdoch) English language media outlets for hours, but only based on unconfirmed German language media reports AFAIK. According to ARD (German BBC) the attacker is presumably a Pakistan or Afghan national, born 01.01.1993 and entered Germany as asylum seeker on 31.12.2015. It is not 100% confirmed yet but this is what responsible media here is saying. EDIT: the SEK (German SWAT) is storming refugee center at the old Berlin Tempelhof airport. Ongoing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 An official press conference is planned for 13:00(Berlin) afaik. At least Spiegel Online has a source which claims that the alleged perpetrator used two slightly different names(edit:removed name 23 Pakistani ) but he could have used forged documents. According to them he entered Germany in February. So far one thing is clear the alleged perpetrator is a young male. No surprise there I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 5 minutes ago, Wolfgang I said: An official press conference is planned for 13:00(Berlin) afaik. At least Spiegel Online has a source which claims that the alleged perpetrator used two slightly different names(Naved. B/Navid. B 23 Pakistani ) but he could have used forged documents. According to them he entered Germany in February. So far one thing is clear the alleged perpetrator is a young male. No surprise there I guess... I guess he is Pashtun (thus Pakistani or Afghan national), but we will see. So this year we had: - terrorist attack in a train by a refuge with axe (Würzburg) - suicide bomber (also refugee) at music festival (Ansbach) - and now this (again refugee) honestly fuck the AFD and their rethorics but I am sick to be told by a specific branch of politicians that there is no pattern and I should move on. And anyway German security is in many cases a joke. Everywhere in Germany people were speaking that when something "big" is going to happen, it will probably be a Christmas market. Maximum carnage and media exposure with minimal effort. After Paris and Nice that was clear... yes you cannot prevent everything but I just have to look at the Christmas markets I visited this year (Munich, Augsburg, Ingolstadt, Neuburg/Donau, Salzburg) and you see how easy we are making it. No hindsight. As I said, many Germans "expected" that if a terror attack happen, it will happen at a Christmas market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Apparently, the original driver of the truck, a polish national, was shot dead by the attacker to steal the truck. First, a gun in Germany? Quite expensive and difficult to acquire illegally. You need contacts to organized crime. Conclusion: this was not a spontaneous deed by a psycho but planned long-term. Second, man I feel for that Polish guy . Works his ass off to feed his family and then comes such an fucking sick asshole and murders him . Man this is so sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 29 minutes ago, Arakan said: I guess he is Pashtun (thus Pakistani or Afghan national), but we will see. So this year we had: - terrorist attack in a train by a refuge with axe (Würzburg) - suicide bomber (also refugee) at music festival (Ansbach) - and now this (again refugee) honestly fuck the AFD and their rethorics but I am sick to be told by a specific branch of politicians that there is no pattern and I should move on. And anyway German security is in many cases a joke. Everywhere in Germany people were speaking that when something "big" is going to happen, it will probably be a Christmas market. Maximum carnage and media exposure with minimal effort. After Paris and Nice that was clear... yes you cannot prevent everything but I just have to look at the Christmas markets I visited this year (Munich, Augsburg, Ingolstadt, Neuburg/Donau, Salzburg) and you see how easy we are making it. No hindsight. As I said, many Germans "expected" that if a terror attack happen, it will happen at a Christmas market. I guess it has always been a joke unless the perpetrators belonged to the left(hell here in Austria they used 1000 police against 40 punks who peacefully occupied a building a few years ago). Imagine what the response would be if this was native left wing terroristm? I guess we should be glad that they are not completely ignoreing it like they prefer to do with right wing terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Right now it looks like they might have arrested the wrong person and it's likely that the real perpetrator is still at large... The german police should just stop releasing information early and close all of their twitter accounts. Each time they do release information early they prove their incompetence(at least on the PR side of things). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loge Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 The guy they arrested had been chased from Breitscheidplatz to Grosser Stern by a bystander who claimed it was the driver of the truck. Maybe that turns out to be wrong but should they have dismissed his report out of hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 12 minutes ago, Loge said: The guy they arrested had been chased from Breitscheidplatz to Grosser Stern by a bystander who claimed it was the driver of the truck. Maybe that turns out to be wrong but should they have dismissed his report out of hand? Of course not. It's not even certain that the arrested man is not the perpetrator. I just think that the police should not release information that is not relevant to public safety unless they are 100% certain. The Phantom of Heilbronn, the NSU murders and to a lesser extent the Munich shooting(that story told changed quite a bit on that sad day) come to mind. On the other hand they should have released the information that the arrested person denies the allegations the moment he did(even if he is lying) because that's information relevant to public safety because the perpetrator might still be at large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyelesbarrow Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I had been frequenting the Xmas market in Breitscheidplatz for lunch/merienda the last few days and I was planning to go to there today because a Pinoy-German acquaintance of mine had a food stall there selling crispy pork belly and other goodies. His stall was right on the side of the platz where the truck crashed. Fortunately, he and his wife were unscathed. Ku'damm is kinda back to normal except for the platz, which is still closed, understandably. There are already some facebook groups now encouraging Berliners to go and visit other Christmas markets to show that terrorism will not dictate the life this city. I might go to the one in Schloss C'burg because I have not been there yet and it should be pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 4 minutes ago, Eyelesbarrow said: I had been frequenting the Xmas market in Breitscheidplatz for lunch/merienda the last few days and I was planning to go to there today because a Pinoy-German acquaintance of mine had a food stall there selling crispy pork belly and other goodies. His stall was right on the side of the platz where the truck crashed. Fortunately, he and his wife were unscathed. Ku'damm is kinda back to normal except for the platz, which is still closed, understandably. There are already some facebook groups now encouraging Berliners to go and visit other Christmas markets to show that terrorism will not dictate the life this city. I might go to the one in Schloss C'burg because I have not been there yet and it should be pretty. Glad to hear that you acquaintance and his wife were not harmed. Stay safe and enjoy yourself at the Christmas market! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 This European notion of showing how terrorism will not impact their lives, by public displays of "normality" boggles the mind. Basically, it just takes pressure off the government, who can then rely on public pressure on citizens to show how "resilient" they are by essentially pretending that terrorism does not touch them. In the end it just costs more lives as more terror attacks can be expected due to government inaction. If instead people reacted with outrage, with mass protests to declare that this shit is not normal and is totally unacceptable in Europe, maybe the government will be forced to tighten up, lock their borders and generally grow a spine to deal with the issue forcefully and mercillessly. Until European citizens cross that Rubicon, their proud displays of polite bravery will just invite more of the same down the line. Tolerance and good wishes ain't gonna make this problem go away folks. An iron fist is what's needed instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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