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Berlin terror attack


BigFatCoward

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1 minute ago, Arakan said:

Yes it did. Want to continue with one liners?

 

Look I understand that English is presumably not your first language but, especially for someone who evidently uses it pretty well, you owe it to yourself, your co-debaters and the discussion as a whole to make sure that what you're responding to is what was actually said. Nothing Week or Dr. Pepper said implied in any way that the people of Berlin had it coming.

I understand you're upset. I'm upset. I live in Berlin, I'm not there righgt now but I obviously have friends there, some of whom I might not find out for sure weren't hurt for a while. So I'm worried too.

But getting aggressive with everyone, especially over things that weren't actually said, isn't helping anyone.

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1 hour ago, Savannah said:

Isn't the perpetrator still unknown? 

To answer your question: we don't know. 

As of know we know that the original Polish driver has been shot dead and was still in the truck, and that the suspect in custody fled from the crime scene. But he denies everything. So we don't know. 

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The simple fact is that whilst most people on this forum can see that Germany has certainly stayed out of getting involved in the middle east and definitely didn't have it coming, those who perpetrate these hideous acts don't see it that way.

They are brainwashed to see "West" as pretty much any 1st world country which is friends with those that have any involvement in their geographical/religious homeland. These idiots aren't trained to distinguish between the various countries of the western world. They care not, we are all their enemies. I mean the attack in Niece was in a city with a huge Muslim population, they probably killed as many of their "own people" as they did of their enemies. Did it deter them though, no.

So sadly although Germany doesn't get involved and actually actively helps refugees from these countries it is still seen as the enemy by those brainwashed idiots that the likes of IS or Boko Haram are funding/training/radicalizing.

It might even be the fact that these sorts of attacks are targeted specifically to pull more countries into the region to create a bigger enemy for the radicals to fight against.

 

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15 minutes ago, Lordsteve666 said:

The simple fact is that whilst most people on this forum can see that Germany has certainly stayed out of getting involved in the middle east and definitely didn't have it coming, those who perpetrate these hideous acts don't see it that way.

They are brainwashed to see "West" as pretty much any 1st world country which is friends with those that have any involvement in their geographical/religious homeland. These idiots aren't trained to distinguish between the various countries of the western world. They care not, we are all their enemies. I mean the attack in Niece was in a city with a huge Muslim population, they probably killed as many of their "own people" as they did of their enemies. Did it deter them though, no.

So sadly although Germany doesn't get involved and actually actively helps refugees from these countries it is still seen as the enemy by those brainwashed idiots that the likes of IS or Boko Haram are funding/training/radicalizing.

It might even be the fact that these sorts of attacks are targeted specifically to pull more countries into the region to create a bigger enemy for the radicals to fight against.

 

You put that very well and I agree. For those jihadists we are all kaffir and that's it. In the twisted minds of those lunatics fine differences doesn't matter at all. There was even a very sophisticated and high quality article of IS with regard to that. Link below. I think it's a must read in understanding the jihadi mind: 

http://m.clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf#page30

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5 minutes ago, Arakan said:

You put that very well and I agree. For those jihadists we are all kaffir and that's it. In the twisted mind of those lunatics fine differences doesn't matter at all. There was even a very sophisticated and high quality article of IS with regard to that. Link below. I think it's a must read in understand the jihadi mind: 

http://m.clarionproject.org/factsheets-files/islamic-state-magazine-dabiq-fifteen-breaking-the-cross.pdf#page30

I'm glad you understood my point. I think that is where a few other posters were coming from upthread but they didn't explain initially what they meant very well, leading to some aggro.

The mindset of these people who do these attacks is nothing like ours on this forum, or even your average western civilian. They cannot and will not distinguish between countries, or political parties or economies because they see it all as part of one all-reaching evil targeting their existence. And they also believe they have God on their side, making literally anything they do justifiable in their eyes. Simply trying to understand them is a mind-boggling challenge.

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The original suspect has been released due to lack of hard enough evidence. This would imply that the attacker is still free, and armed. 

Oh well, this is not good...

@Wolfgang I mate it seems you were right regarding the BERLIN police...

Basically the real attacker can be anywhere now...might be that they never get him. Jesus...

It seems the eye witness who was chasing after the man fleeing from the truck lost him and BASED on the rough description of that man, the police arrested the original suspect ca. 2 km away from the crime scene. Wow. That doesn't look well for the Berlin police, not at all. 

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8 hours ago, Arakan said:

Apparently, the original driver of the truck, a polish national, was shot dead by the attacker to steal the truck. 

First, a gun in Germany? Quite expensive and difficult to acquire illegally. You need contacts to organized crime. Conclusion: this was not a spontaneous deed by a psycho but planned long-term. 

Second, man I feel for that Polish guy :(. Works his ass off to feed his family and then comes such an fucking sick asshole and murders him :(. Man this is so sad

Yeah. It is really horrible. I also feel for his family that he might have been considered to be responsible for the incident :(

---

I actually do want to say something about the whole earlier discussion. 

Some months ago we also had a discussion after the attacks on Brussels. It didn't take too long for people also started to justify/understand why people did this, referring to the interventions in the Middle-East, racism, ... Sorry to say this, but as someone who lives in Belgium, I actually also had some problems how people were discussing this topic when not more than 24 hours passed since the attack. 

Those attacks touch a lot of people, of course first the dead, the injured, their families and friends but also the people who live near the area, work there and who live in the same country. And they are not to blame for what their government is doing and I hope people remember Germany did more for the refugees than any other Western (and also more than some other muslim countries). 

And hope some people also don' forget the attacker did not only attack the people from Berlin and the tourists visiting the capital of Germany, but also a Christmas Market. Christmas Markets are something typical of the German Culture, refer to Christianity and Christmas which has been used as a moment to cease fire. And even more, the attack found place near a Memorial Church which is in Berlin also a symbol of peace and wants to warn people against the horrors of war.

What the person did, was horrible. The victims are in no way responsible for this, nor are the German people, and nor can this attack been justified. 

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6 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Yeah. It is really horrible. I also feel for his family that he might have been considered to be responsible for the incident :(

---

I actually do want to say something about the whole earlier discussion. 

Some months ago we also had a discussion after the attacks on Brussels. It didn't take too long for people also started to justify/understand why people did this, referring to the interventions in the Middle-East, racism, ... Sorry to say this, but as someone who lives in Belgium, I actually also had some problems how people were discussing this topic when not more than 24 hours passed since the attack. 

Those attacks touch a lot of people, of course first the dead, the injured, their families and friends but also the people who live near the area, work there and who live in the same country. And they are not to blame for what their government is doing and I hope people remember Germany did more for the refugees than any other Western (and also more than some other muslim countries). 

And hope some people also don' forget the attacker did not only attack the people from Berlin and the tourists visiting the capital of Germany, but also a Christmas Market. Christmas Markets are something typical of the German Culture, refer to Christianity and Christmas which has been used as a moment to cease fire. And even more, the attack found place near a Memorial Church which is in Berlin also a symbol of peace and wants to warn people against the horrors of war.

What the person did, was horrible. The victims are in no way responsible for this, nor are the German people, and nor can this attack been justified. 

Thanks mate for those words, exactly my feelings. 

Regarding the symbolism, you are spot on. I guess many non-Germans do not understand how much this hits emotionally especially because it was a Christmas market. As you said the "Adventszeit" and Christmas market culture is deeply ingrained in German culture and mindset. It's a place you go with your friends, family or colleagues from work to have a joyful and yes, peaceful time. Doesn't matter the nationality, ethnicity or religion. Everyone goes. And often it's really like a therapy for the mind to find rest of the stress of everyday life. It's nothing like for example Oktoberfest or such festivals in general. 

To attack a Christmas market in Germany is like a knife in our hearts, a knife in the collective emotional mind of the people. To hit the German emotion the most, there's no other place. No airport, train station, shopping center, museum.

I don't ask from an American to "get it" but at least don't immediately start with some simplistic political discussions. The deads are not even burried, so to speak. 

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35 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Yeah. It is really horrible. I also feel for his family that he might have been considered to be responsible for the incident :(

From what our media report, the original driver was badly beaten and then (probably) shot dead. They presume he was attacked by at least two or three aggressors, as he apparently put up a fight and he wasn't a weakling himself (180 cm and 120 kg). So there's little chance the attacker was only one.

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6 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

From what our media report, the original driver was badly beaten and then (probably) shot dead. They presume he was attacked by at least two or three aggressors, as he apparently put up a fight and he wasn't a weakling himself (180 cm and 120 kg). So there's little chance the attacker was only one.

That's interesting because regarding the Polish driver the Berlin police gives almost no information due to the ongoing investigations as they said. Then you have the SEK razzia at former Berlin Tempelhof airport (now refuge "camp"). Also no further information. It might be, and I am speculating, that the police suspects a terror cell in the background (which might also help to explain from where the attacker got a gun which is reallly difficult in Germany) and that the attacker was just their "fall guy" but when it came to the "suicide part" he got cold feet and run away rather than go down "guns blazing". 

I do not believe in a simple amok run. Those guys virtually go all down "guns blazing". 

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2 hours ago, Arakan said:

Yes it did. Want to continue with one liners? 

@mormont said it well. So I will leave it. 

There's a significant difference between saying that A's actions are motivated by legit grievance and saying that the victims of said actions 'had it coming'. The latter is a kindof ad-hom line blurring either coming out of being (understandably) upset in the moment or wanting to blur the lines for desired effect. Here, example:

1) the actions of the I.R.A. were motivated by a real and ongoing systematic abuse by the British Government, ex. Bloody Sunday.

2) so you're saying that the Guilford pub victims had it coming!?!

1) Er, no, I'm not. 

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5 hours ago, Eyelesbarrow said:

I had been frequenting the Xmas market in Breitscheidplatz for lunch/merienda the last few days and I was planning to go to there today because a Pinoy-German acquaintance of mine had a food stall there selling crispy pork belly and other goodies. His stall was right on the side of the platz where the truck crashed. Fortunately, he and his wife were unscathed. Ku'damm is kinda back to normal except for the platz, which is still closed, understandably.

Glad to hear that you're OK, and the people you know there are uninjured. I can't imagine how it must feel for the people who were there at the time, even if they weren't injured themselves.

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The (new) suspect is a 24 old Tunisian guy called Anis Amri. He is currently on the run and a European wide search is ongoing. The tragic thing is that he was a suspected jihadist since March this year...

He came to Germany in 2015 but his request for asylum was rejected. If it turns out that he is the lunatic then this will have widespread implications. 

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To describe the moot right now in Germany...on the one hand you have the right populists and their supporters who "call for the head" of Merkel (refugees, open arms and all that). On the other side you have conspiracy theorists, mostly leftists and Muslims from Bosnian/Turkish origin, who speak of false flag operation and blame BND/Mossad/CIA. Their reason: police found documents of the suspect in the truck. 

Well both sides are really idiots and there are "battles" between those two groups on social media like crazy. 

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Wider than those Bavarian clowns ((Voll-)Horst Seehofer, (wannabe Doctor) (Be)Scheuer)) poluting the news with their nonsense?

There should be an upper limit. For the amount of interviews Bavarian politicians are allowed to give. 3 to 5 per year sounds reasonable.

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1 minute ago, Notone said:

Wider than those Bavarian clowns ((Voll-)Horst Seehofer, (wannabe Doctor) (Be)Scheuer)) poluting the news with their nonsense?

There should be an upper limit. For the amount of interviews Bavarian politicians are allowed to give. 3 to 5 per year sounds reasonable.

It's worse than that...apparently intelligent people (like for example my best friend) go nuts...

He is one of those who suspects a false flag operation. Oh well the political climate in Germany until election will be something we haven't seen in this country since 1967/68...

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1 hour ago, Arakan said:

He came to Germany in 2015 but his request for asylum was rejected. If it turns out that he is the lunatic then this will have widespread implications. 

Correct, but sadly I don't think it will be for the best, both in the short and long term. 

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