Survivor 34: "Game Changers" | RIP Dan Kay, Survivor: Gabon

[dbunting]

22 minutes ago, Winterfella said:

Glad Sandra is gone too, but I nearly got out of my chair and bowed down to her if she had pulled off talking everyone into voting for Tai and then him going home with two idols in his pocket.  That was either a great editing job or a great acting job by that alliance, because it looked to me like that's exactly what was going to happen.

I don't mind Tai always finding idols.  They've set the precedent of always having them out there, and he's perfected the art of finding them.  It also helps him if he uses them strategically to help others in his alliance (whatever alliance he's momentarily in, that is).  Since he currently has two, it got me thinking, was there ever a tribal council where two idols were used at the same time?

Right now I'm thinking Zeke is in a very good position to win it all.

There were two idols used recently, I don't remember exactly who but it definitely happened.

As to the idol hunters, there have been a few people who were just damn good at finding them. To me that is as good of a trait to have as being good at challenges and social game.

[SpaceChampion]

Malcolm used two idols in his second game at the same tribal.

[Gertrude]

Parvati also used two idols on Sandra and Jerri in Heroes v Villains. I think those two, she used two for sure.

I knew Sandra had a huge target on her back, but still sad to see her go. i get why they showcased her - she's good TV and she's the Queen. Gotta give her respect. I liked that she got applause at the end. An interesting thing she said in her exit interview is that Culpepper was working with her. So JT really stepped in it in multiple ways.

The Cochrane thing was really annoying. It wasn't exciting to watch, it took up a huge chunk of time and to top it off, it's going to do Debbie no good because she can't see beyond herself. I did like that exile was more like the Sugar Shack than Earl's Island. That was a nice surprise.

That tribal was wild. We didn't see the whole picture there, obviously, but I was hoping against hope that Sandra could pull it off. I'm actually surprised that there were two idols that could be found with the same clue. Each idol has been different - why was this the same?

[dbunting]

3 hours ago, Gertrude said:

Parvati also used two idols on Sandra and Jerri in Heroes v Villains. I think those two, she used two for sure.

I knew Sandra had a huge target on her back, but still sad to see her go. i get why they showcased her - she's good TV and she's the Queen. Gotta give her respect. I liked that she got applause at the end. An interesting thing she said in her exit interview is that Culpepper was working with her. So JT really stepped in it in multiple ways.

The Cochrane thing was really annoying. It wasn't exciting to watch, it took up a huge chunk of time and to top it off, it's going to do Debbie no good because she can't see beyond herself. I did like that exile was more like the Sugar Shack than Earl's Island. That was a nice surprise.

That tribal was wild. We didn't see the whole picture there, obviously, but I was hoping against hope that Sandra could pull it off. I'm actually surprised that there were two idols that could be found with the same clue. Each idol has been different - why was this the same?

Its not the first time that multiple idols were hidden in the same way. Even this season the X marks the spot idols were the same. A few seasons ago when the idols were hidden up in the tree and you had to use a tool to get them down was also the same. My memory sometimes sucks so there may be more examples.

Yeah I didn't like Cochrane being there either. I mean this season is supposed to be game changers, so does a game changer really need to hear from him, I mean imagine if it was Sandra there instead of Debbie. Sandra would be the one teaching him lessons.

[Gertrude]

I didn't remember that the X marks the spot was used twice. Troyzan's was at a challenge, JT'w was the X .. I guess I don't remember how Tai found his first one. I'm guessing that's the one you're talking about. I guess I thought all the idols would be unique in the way they were found. By the way, does this seem like too many idols to anyone else? Pre-merge and we've already seen 5?

[Ded As Ned]

It's not been that uncommon for idols to be hidden in similar fashion for each of the tribes.  Tai was lucky in that he had found the first idol, and then changed tribes, and was able to find the second hidden in the same way at the other tribe's location.  

Ballsy that he didn't play one of them, especially with all the chatter around camp.  Of course we don't see everything, so maybe he was more comfortable than the edit made it look... but worked out for him.  I really thought it was a mistake before the vote, but turned out he made the right play.

(Late to the thread... my 8 year old is now a fan, so I record the Wed. airing but we can't watch it together until the weekend... so I avoid spoilers until after we're caught up). 

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, Ded As Ned said:

It's not been that uncommon for idols to be hidden in similar fashion for each of the tribes.  Tai was lucky in that he had found the first idol, and then changed tribes, and was able to find the second hidden in the same way at the other tribe's location.  

Ballsy that he didn't play one of them, especially with all the chatter around camp.  Of course we don't see everything, so maybe he was more comfortable than the edit made it look... but worked out for him.  I really thought it was a mistake before the vote, but turned out he made the right play.

(Late to the thread... my 8 year old is now a fan, so I record the Wed. airing but we can't watch it together until the weekend... so I avoid spoilers until after we're caught up). 

Yeah, the editing of tribal council made it look like he was a fool, but then everyone voted exactly as planned, including him.

[Gertrude]

7 hours ago, Ded As Ned said:

It's not been that uncommon for idols to be hidden in similar fashion for each of the tribes.

I know that's been the case in the past, but what I'm getting at (badly) is that this season I didn't think they'd be doing that. It's based on this quote from Jeff -

Quote

“Given that it is Game Changers, we’re going to change the game constantly. So when it comes to idols, there will be no consistency,” says the host. “Usually there’s a theme. You have to find them in a certain way or work a certain amount of effort to get it. Not this time.”

That's why I was very surprised when Tai found two idols with one clue. That's all.

[Gertrude]

Oh Varner, what did you do? Wow, that was so wrong. I know he knows it, regrets it and was desperate, but ... just no.

Zeke handled that so well and seeing the tribe rise up to support him was beautiful. I feel bad for all involved. I like Varner, but he made a huge mistake that Zeke had every right to not forgive. Zeke handled it with maturity and love and it was a pleasure to watch how that unfolded for him.

It was interesting to hear Sarah's take on it. She's from the same hometown as me, but I have to wonder where her head has been. It's true that Iowa is not very diverse and if you're looking for racial minorities, you won't find many. I feel that LGTBQ is a pretty universal thing though, and I have known and loved many LGBTQ people.

[Scrambled Aegon]

Well, that's almost certainly the worst thing anyone's ever done on Survivor. jfc.

[Raja]

Jesus christ you guys, I liked Varner. What..why..ugh, I'm so disappointed. 'deception on a level you don't even know' - what a piece of shit. 

Reading this piece by Zeke on THR makes it all the more painful

 

[dbunting]

Yeah, I have to say that last nights tribal was the most painful and emotional I have ever seen. When they cut to tribal I noticed there was still 20 min left of time and thought, shit something is going down! Thinking a tie, rocks or something, not this nuclear bomb.

It was really nice to see most of the tribe come right to Zeke's defense without hesitation. It's not something you see everyday in the world. I still don't know what Varner was thinking. I know what his excuse was but it was just so dumb. It was like a bully trying to go after what he saw as a weak target only to realize the weak target was stronger than and more well liked than him and it back fired.

One question or thought on the end of the episode, and this is probably just me. At the very end they showed a little clip of the challenge where Varner and Zeke were building the ladder. Zeke has his shirt off and now that I have learned this I noticed what appears to scars on his chest. I wonder if they chose that clip on purpose to show that or if it's just me looking for things now that I have learned this?

[The Wedge]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

Jesus christ you guys, I liked Varner. What..why..ugh, I'm so disappointed. 'deception on a level you don't even know' - what a piece of shit. 

Reading this piece by Zeke on THR makes it all the more painful

 

I have tears in my eyes after reading Zeke's incredible words in that piece. Thanks for posting it here.

That was an agonizing tribal.  I can only imagine what it must have been like in real time, which unedited can be hours long, right?

What the hell, Varner?  The immediate outrage from the rest of the tribe was comforting, though as Probst said, the bell couldn't be unrung. Varner knew it, too. He is lucky Zeke threw him a rope to stop the fall into complete madness, but that climb up the rope is going to be a rough one for Varner.

Wow.

[Dr. Pepper]

I was only watching this season to see if Sandra made it.  When she left I was pretty much done but then told this was a must see episode.  

One of the most horrifying things I've seen on tv.  I felt so sick.  

10 hours ago, dbunting said:

One question or thought on the end of the episode, and this is probably just me. At the very end they showed a little clip of the challenge where Varner and Zeke were building the ladder. Zeke has his shirt off and now that I have learned this I noticed what appears to scars on his chest. I wonder if they chose that clip on purpose to show that or if it's just me looking for things now that I have learned this?

I didn't watch last season but there was a lot of talk in the queer world about a trans man being on Survivor with people assuming due to his top surgery scars.  It's probably that you now know and so are noticing these things.  Which sucks for Zeke because the reason he wanted to keep quiet about it is because he didn't want it to become all about him being trans as that will be what people see when they look at him.  This isn't an attack on you, just pointing out that so often trans people only get to be "that trans person" rather than just "that man Zeke" or "that woman LaVerne".  

[dbunting]

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 7:23 PM, Dr. Pepper said:

I was only watching this season to see if Sandra made it.  When she left I was pretty much done but then told this was a must see episode.  

One of the most horrifying things I've seen on tv.  I felt so sick.  

I didn't watch last season but there was a lot of talk in the queer world about a trans man being on Survivor with people assuming due to his top surgery scars.  It's probably that you now know and so are noticing these things.  Which sucks for Zeke because the reason he wanted to keep quiet about it is because he didn't want it to become all about him being trans as that will be what people see when they look at him.  This isn't an attack on you, just pointing out that so often trans people only get to be "that trans person" rather than just "that man Zeke" or "that woman LaVerne".  

Right, I understand why he just wanted to be him. Watching last year I had no clue and don't ever remember seeing any scars. It's unfortunate how now I do notice them. Got to wonder if I will watch him differently now?  Also, I really wonder if anyone on the tribe will tell the other tribe about it once they merge.

[Gertrude]

From the way they each reacted, I'd be surprised if they did. They were all pretty upset that Varner chose to reveal that and not let Zeke do it on his own terms. I'd be more horrified at any one of those remaining people telling Zeke's secret after condemning Varner for it.

[Kyoshi]

You know, the strange thing for me is that I always knew Zeke is trans. Last year when he had the confessional about coming out to his dad at 15 (IIRC), I immediately assumed it was about being trans. So I also always assumed that everyone else knew, especially the cast. The one thing that pisses me off more than anything with regards to Varner is that he presented the whole thing as though Zeke owed everyone an explanation/or just something in general. As a cis person, I don't go around introducing myself as such, and to place the burden of "absolute honesty" on trans people is especially bigoted when you consider that people actually get killed (and "correctively" raped) and rejected for being/coming out as/living openly as trans. Even without the extreme implications of coming out, I just hate that Zeke's choice in the matter was completely removed. And somehow, I also blame the show because I feel like they also outed him for ratings.

[dbunting]

2 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

You know, the strange thing for me is that I always knew Zeke is trans. Last year when he had the confessional about coming out to his dad at 15 (IIRC), I immediately assumed it was about being trans. So I also always assumed that everyone else knew, especially the cast. The one thing that pisses me off more than anything with regards to Varner is that he presented the whole thing as though Zeke owed everyone an explanation/or just something in general. As a cis person, I don't go around introducing myself as such, and to place the burden of "absolute honesty" on trans people is especially bigoted when you consider that people actually get killed (and "correctively" raped) and rejected for being/coming out as/living openly as trans. Even without the extreme implications of coming out, I just hate that Zeke's choice in the matter was completely removed. And somehow, I also blame the show because I feel like they also outed him for ratings.

You can't blame the show for that. Zeke knew what he was in for when he signed up, said himself that he knew this could happen. If the show didn't air that I would think it was wrong.

 

10 hours ago, Gertrude said:

From the way they each reacted, I'd be surprised if they did. They were all pretty upset that Varner chose to reveal that and not let Zeke do it on his own terms. I'd be more horrified at any one of those remaining people telling Zeke's secret after condemning Varner for it.

IDK, I guess they can just say that Varner was odd man out. It will be interesting to see this play out.

[Gertrude]

Yeah, I can see it coming out to explain the vote or just because people are bored and aren't thinking or it slips, but I think it would reflect even more poorly on anyone who did that than it did on Varner if it came up again. Zeke might tackle it head on and render that whole thing null, but I'm guessing that if he does, it's not before he feels more comfortable in the merge.

[Kyoshi]

6 hours ago, dbunting said:

You can't blame the show for that. Zeke knew what he was in for when he signed up, said himself that he knew this could happen. If the show didn't air that I would think it was wrong.

IDK, I guess they can just say that Varner was odd man out. It will be interesting to see this play out.

The thing is before tribal, Varner says in one of his confessionals, that he knows something about Zeke he's going to reveal. I bet a producer asked what that thing was and Varner probably answered. I know that for me personally, that was the confessional in which I suspected that maybe everyone didn't know Zeke was trans. If the producers are any good, they at least suspected what was about to happen and they did nothing to discourage it. I know these people sign up for all kinds of crap, but I don't think anyone signs up to have their humanity questioned so callously. That's why I blame the show; they could have stopped all that and allowed a vote to happen, that way they wouldn't need to go/edit around the open vote.

I don't know, maybe I'm just naive enough to believe there's a certain line you don't cross, even with reality TV. The show, in that instance, should have prioritised Zeke's choice in coming out to his peers and a million other people who watch the show. But guess what, they've just now done the thing Zeke was trying to avoid, because my guess is no one is going to remember Zeke without remembering that tribal council.