(Poll) Do you think ocean water will nullify White Walker's magic?

[HighAndMightyBrightness]

Although White Walkers are probably made out of water (ice), it seems heavily foreshadowed that the oceans are not a part of their realm in terms of magic. Do you guys agree that the wights from the White Walkers cannot swim or move under water like the Pirates of the Caribbean? Here is the Morgana Lannister's post that best sums up our agreements.

Here is the poll:

A.) I agree that the wights from the White Walkers cannot traverse through the ocean in any fashion.

B.) Maybe the White Walkers can create icebergs for their wights through expenditure of their energy. After all, the White Walkers might have attacked from the Grey Waste in Essos; above Grey Wastes is the Shivering Sea with its icebergs. Wights can attack any shorelines where icebergs do not melt.

C.) The wights can walk under water like that scene from Pirates of the Caribbean movie, and can attack from any shorelines.

D.) Other (please explain)

[cgrav]

Sounds like a job for the Drowned God and Nagga. 

There must be some supernatural force that prevents this. The cold they exude should be sufficient to freeze the sea and allow foot passage, so it would be a major plot hole to leave this unexplained. 

I would assume that the Others' historical presence in Essos was enabled by a naturally occurring ice sheet during the Long Night. I actually wonder if the Dothraki end times myth of Ghost Grass isn't actually referring to deep snow.

 

so I guess my answer is A.

[velo-knight]

My answer is C and D. I can accept the wights moving, but not the Walkers, otherwise the wall would be totally pointless.

[The Mountain that Cries]

I have waited to see this question. My answer is D. I think They cant pass through any deep water simple because they bring the cold. If they travel through deep water they would simple freeze into a big ice cube. I do think they can send small troops like scouts or control dead sea creatures(dead things in the water). 

[Maester of Valyria]

I believe that the Wall's magics prevent the Others from passing south of it.

 

Also, on a related note, why does everyone assume that Others live/have lived in the Grey Waste in Essos? There seems to be no evidence for that whatsoever.

[Morgana Lannister]

2 hours ago, HighAndMightyBrightness said:

Although White Walkers are probably made out of water (ice), it seems heavily foreshadowed that the oceans are not a part of their realm in terms of magic. Do you guys agree that the wights from the White Walkers cannot swim or move under water like the Pirates of the Caribbean? Here is the Morgana Lannister's post that best sums up our agreements.

Here is the poll:

A.) I agree that the wights from the White Walkers cannot traverse through the ocean in any fashion.

B.) Maybe the White Walkers can create icebergs for their wights through expenditure of their energy. After all, the White Walkers might have attacked from the Grey Waste in Essos; above Grey Wastes is the Shivering Sea with its icebergs. Wights can attack any shorelines where icebergs do not melt.

C.) The wights can walk under water like that scene from Pirates of the Caribbean movie, and can attack from any shorelines.

D.) Other (please explain)

Wow, first of all, I feel very honoured that you have quoted me *blushes* I am trying hard to think where all this "water negates magic" steams from in fantasy lore but there is certainly a ton of it.  I will get back to you when I can pin it down lol but basically I have read a fair deal of fantasy and, generally, water strips the power out of the magical being, or make it very difficult to operate with.  Off the top of my head, in Jim Butcher's series "The Dresden Files" a character who is incidentally Winter Court and a very good wizard struggles over a battle on Lake Michigan (modern fantasy) over water... This is off the top of my head but I am sure nearly every fantasy I have read involving magic makes water hard work for the wizard.   Of course there has to be some real "folk" basis for this concept to be so wide-spread and as soon as I figure it out, will let you know lol.

Okay in medieval Europe, if charged with "witchcraft" the accused would be immersed in water, if he/she survived that would be dabbed as "magic" so got the chop if not, well the subject was dead.  Maybe this is the basis for this extremely all over the place in magic worlds conception...

Anyway, regardless of my sources indeed the Wall would be redundant without this protection, so I take this as a given.

Now, the intriguing thing in this series is the "ice" (frozen water) and also the "salt water" (Salt Throne blah...).  Inclined to think that George has given these variations specific "jobs" but then there is the LSH situation with "ordinary river water."  Not sure what to think, for sure, but like your point  however icebergs do melt, so what you are proposing here, I think (correct me if wrong) is that if the WWs managed to get the icebergs to stay cold for a long time they could pass.  Possible I guess but Dany or "Fire" (whether figuratively or otherwise, could mayhaps bypass that).  Maybe that is the essence of the battle to come.  We know she has fire and dragons for that matter lol but ice has to do something! to counter-act because I see this tale as very Seelie/Unseelie Court (Summer -v- Winter Courts in Celtic mythology)

I primarily agree with your premises just struggling with the conundrum that ice is made of water lol but I guess George likes to tease us a bit and it will be explained for sure but more insight into this would be awesome.

[Morgana Lannister]

1 hour ago, The Mountain that Cries said:

I have waited to see this question. My answer is D. I think They cant pass through any deep water simple because they bring the cold. If they travel through deep water they would simple freeze into a big ice cube. I do think they can send small troops like scouts or control dead sea creatures(dead things in the water). 

trouble with this is that if they are colder than the water (and unless whole/lake ocean frozen) that would not be the case, they would not further freeze; unless some magic applies, in fact they would make the water cooler and the warmer water in turn would make them less cold.  However, this could make sense, contact with less cold water by comparison might make them unable to operate as "too warm to be WWs..." Now, maybe that is what happens to them South of the Wall, with Wall or without it, still too easy to defeat and it has to be hard for our (what I call "Team Living")

[Mage of Hornets]

I vote C, on the theory that the "dead things in the water" mentioned by Cotter Pyke are probably wights (either human or kraken).

[chrisdaw]

The ocean floor is not necessarily traversable, assuming Others/Wights can exist under water.

 

But maybe relevant to where I think you're leading with this, the Black Gate's water drop is warm and salty.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

I don't think the white walkers would be bothered by water unless the water is warm. 

[John Suburbs]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2016 at 5:46 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

Wow, first of all, I feel very honoured that you have quoted me *blushes* I am trying hard to think where all this "water negates magic" steams from in fantasy lore but there is certainly a ton of it.  I will get back to you when I can pin it down lol but basically I have read a fair deal of fantasy and, generally, water strips the power out of the magical being, or make it very difficult to operate with.  Off the top of my head, in Jim Butcher's series "The Dresden Files" a character who is incidentally Winter Court and a very good wizard struggles over a battle on Lake Michigan (modern fantasy) over water... This is off the top of my head but I am sure nearly every fantasy I have read involving magic makes water hard work for the wizard.   Of course there has to be some real "folk" basis for this concept to be so wide-spread and as soon as I figure it out, will let you know lol.

Okay in medieval Europe, if charged with "witchcraft" the accused would be immersed in water, if he/she survived that would be dabbed as "magic" so got the chop if not, well the subject was dead.  Maybe this is the basis for this extremely all over the place in magic worlds conception...

Anyway, regardless of my sources indeed the Wall would be redundant without this protection, so I take this as a given.

Now, the intriguing thing in this series is the "ice" (frozen water) and also the "salt water" (Salt Throne blah...).  Inclined to think that George has given these variations specific "jobs" but then there is the LSH situation with "ordinary river water."  Not sure what to think, for sure, but like your point  however icebergs do melt, so what you are proposing here, I think (correct me if wrong) is that if the WWs managed to get the icebergs to stay cold for a long time they could pass.  Possible I guess but Dany or "Fire" (whether figuratively or otherwise, could mayhaps bypass that).  Maybe that is the essence of the battle to come.  We know she has fire and dragons for that matter lol but ice has to do something! to counter-act because I see this tale as very Seelie/Unseelie Court (Summer -v- Winter Courts in Celtic mythology)

I primarily agree with your premises just struggling with the conundrum that ice is made of water lol but I guess George likes to tease us a bit and it will be explained for sure but more insight into this would be awesome.

lol, let's also not forget the Wicked Witch of the West, one of the most powerful figures in Oz and her weakness is water.

[Roose on the Loose]

C. And the Others can build ice canoes.  

The ocean did however stop the Mongol Empire.  They never even took Taiwan.  GOT Academy theorizes that Dany's Dothraki will all die in shipwrecks, because that's what happened to the Mongols who tried to conquer Japan.

[Clegane'sPup]

Let’s suppose the sea water is salty.

If salt melts ice and if the Others are frozen water held together by magic then hell yeah they are gonna melt in the salty sea.

BUT if it gets cold enough to freeze the salty sea water all dem Others need to do is hop, skip and jump from one berg to another like a polar bear.

Others seem to like walking in the winter wonderland especially when it’s dark outside and the sugar gum fairies follow them around.

I can see Ser Puddle’s brother prancing around with his Santa hat on his head while the rest of him shimmers in the pale moonlight. If Puddle’s brother hadn’t worn the hat I never woulda seen him coming.

Luckily I had my bow and my trusty dusty dragonglass tipped arrows handy.

A joyous holiday season to all.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Let’s suppose the sea water is salty.

If salt melts ice and if the Others are frozen water held together by magic then hell yeah they are gonna melt in the salty sea.

...tee hee hee...

A joyous holiday season to all.

So, the Others are the slugs of the far north? Sprinkle a little salt on them and they curl up and die? Well, they certainly move at the speed of slug.

To the OP: It seems to be gettin' pretty cold up north, and it gets even colder when the Others show up. I wonder of they just can't Ice Man themselves a walking path if they need it.

Though, the salt element is interesting... because the wall is salty water... which is weird because the water supposedly came from lakes and lakes are usually fresh water???  So I guess there were salt water lakes in the north?

[Clegane'sPup]

8 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

snip

Why you wanna mess with me on the eve of the eve? It's not nice to insert stuff in other people quotes. Humbug.

[Clegane'sPup]

11 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

So, the Others are the slugs of the far north? Sprinkle a little salt on them and they curl up and die? Well, they certainly move at the speed of slug.

To the OP: It seems to be gettin' pretty cold up north, and it gets even colder when the Others show up. I wonder of they just can't Ice Man themselves a walking path if they need it.

Though, the salt element is interesting... because the wall is salty water... which is weird because the water supposedly came from lakes and lakes are usually fresh water???  So I guess there were salt water lakes in the north?

You failed to notice that I got Puddle's brother while he was prancing around wearing Santa's hat.

 

1 hour ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I can see Ser Puddle’s brother prancing around with his Santa hat on his head while the rest of him shimmers in the pale moonlight. If Puddle’s brother hadn’t worn the hat I never woulda seen him coming.

Luckily I had my bow and my trusty dusty dragonglass tipped arrows handy.

A joyous holiday season to all.

 

[The Fattest Leech]

7 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

You failed to notice that I got Puddle's brother while he was prancing around wearing Santa's hat.

 

 

I did notice. I am full of whiskey at the moment and have been acting this out while wrapping presents. It was great!

[Clegane'sPup]

15 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I did notice. I am full of whiskey at the moment and have been acting this out while wrapping presents. It was great!

I joke probably only you and I understand. Here goes. Never drink LM's booze.

[Mat92]

On 22/12/2016 at 4:13 AM, HighAndMightyBrightness said:

B.) Maybe the White Walkers can create icebergs for their wights through expenditure of their energy. 

It seems to me that rules of magic in this universe are similar to the rules of energy, in such that energy cannot be created/destroyed but rather it needs to come from somewhere/go somewhere else. We see this with Mirri Maz Duur and Dondarrion/LSH (only death can pay for life).

It seems likely based on this rule that if the White Walkers are able to use magic as a weapon or tool of sorts, there is a cost to them and their strength. Perhaps this is a factor as to why it's taken them so long to gather and start moving again. I also subscribe to the theory that they are sacrificing Crasters/wildling babies (death pays for life) to help them gather strength over the years. 

So, I guess I agree with A and the first line in B.