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Its clear that Loras went to an empty Dragon Stone


Jadakiss

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@free_riders    that is the main point. glad most are able to understand that. he chose aurane waters to relay the message for a reason, that is the huge giveaway

Nobody has yet to give any good legit reason as to why Loras would risk anything for useless dragon stone for a lady like Cersei who has no power at all. 

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17 hours ago, Jadakiss said:

@free_riders    that is the main point. glad most are able to understand that. he chose aurane waters to relay the message for a reason, that is the huge giveaway

Nobody has yet to give any good legit reason as to why Loras would risk anything for useless dragon stone for a lady like Cersei who has no power at all. 

How does Cersei have no power in that particular situation or time? Why are people begging her for permission to do things?

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On 2/2/2017 at 9:32 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

How does Cersei have no power in that particular situation or time? Why are people begging her for permission to do things?

She is being played.

The faith shortly after just had her walk through the city naked. She is not respected nor feared anymore. She holds no power where someone would feel they would have to do bidding for her. The armies are under Kevan. The Tyrells will fight for their home land over going on a death mission with no gain whatsoever 

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14 hours ago, Jadakiss said:

She is being played.

The faith shortly after just had her walk through the city naked. She is not respected nor feared anymore. She holds no power where someone would feel they would have to do bidding for her. The armies are under Kevan. The Tyrells will fight for their home land over going on a death mission with no gain whatsoever 

And what did they Faith have to do to arrest her? They had to get her in the most vulnerable place possible and prevent all her protection from accompanying her. Once they held her, they also had all the leverage because neither Kevan nor Mace wanted her dead.

Kevan is not in control of any of the armies. He doesn't have the power to take the regency or be hand without Cersei's permission. In fact she refuses him outright. The only forces he has under his control are 100 crossbowmen and 300 men-at-arms to escort Tywin back to the west. You know who does control the Lannister forces? Daven, the new Warden of the West, who was appointed by Cersei and obeys her command to besiege RR. He does eventually yield the command to Jaime, who was also ordered to RR by Cersei.

The Tyrells army is half in the reach and half besieging SE, once again on Cersei's order. The Redwynes are currently besieging DS with a force picked by Cersei and led by a man, Paxter Redwyne, who is following Cersei's orders to take DS and ferry over Lannister troops.

So where again does Cersei have no power? It must be because she is so nice and charming and competent that everyone does what she says. They don't recognize her power but she's always correct so it looks like they do!

Ok now I see what you're saying. Cersei is the most competent person in Westeros and gets no recognition. That's an insightful theory. 

 

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On 2/5/2017 at 4:57 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

And what did they Faith have to do to arrest her? They had to get her in the most vulnerable place possible and prevent all her protection from accompanying her. Once they held her, they also had all the leverage because neither Kevan nor Mace wanted her dead.

Kevan is not in control of any of the armies. He doesn't have the power to take the regency or be hand without Cersei's permission. In fact she refuses him outright. The only forces he has under his control are 100 crossbowmen and 300 men-at-arms to escort Tywin back to the west. You know who does control the Lannister forces? Daven, the new Warden of the West, who was appointed by Cersei and obeys her command to besiege RR. He does eventually yield the command to Jaime, who was also ordered to RR by Cersei.

The Tyrells army is half in the reach and half besieging SE, once again on Cersei's order. The Redwynes are currently besieging DS with a force picked by Cersei and led by a man, Paxter Redwyne, who is following Cersei's orders to take DS and ferry over Lannister troops.

So where again does Cersei have no power? It must be because she is so nice and charming and competent that everyone does what she says. They don't recognize her power but she's always correct so it looks like they do!

Ok now I see what you're saying. Cersei is the most competent person in Westeros and gets no recognition. That's an insightful theory. 

 

 

yea your right. Cersei has tons of pull and tons of power, not like she was in prison for a good minute and never had to walk the streets naked. people for sure fear her and would go on a death mission for her risking men for nothing

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Cersei doesn't do her walk of shame until after sending Loras to dragonstone. I really don't see any conclusive evidence that he didn't go. The fear that Margaery has seems real enough in text. Unless she was left in the dark about the whole thing, which I guess is a possibility. But nothing I read gives me any hint to Loras being anything but brash, young, and hungry for glory, a la Jaimie Lannister 2.0 

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15 hours ago, Jadakiss said:

 

yea your right. Cersei has tons of pull and tons of power, not like she was in prison for a good minute and never had to walk the streets naked. people for sure fear her and would go on a death mission for her risking men for nothing

She had all the power until she stripped herself of any protections and allowed herself to be arrested. Once that happened she had no power and the faith had all the leverage because Kevan wouldn't violently put them down. Cersei overplayed her hand. It's plain as day.

And once again, Loras wasn't going on a death mission. He could easily have not led the storming of the castle and let the Westermen Cersei appointed attack the castle and suffer the casualties. Then the Reachmen can sail home hale and hearty after DS is taken. Not exactly going on a death mission now is it?

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On 2/8/2017 at 3:38 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

She had all the power until she stripped herself of any protections and allowed herself to be arrested. Once that happened she had no power and the faith had all the leverage because Kevan wouldn't violently put them down. Cersei overplayed her hand. It's plain as day.

And once again, Loras wasn't going on a death mission. He could easily have not led the storming of the castle and let the Westermen Cersei appointed attack the castle and suffer the casualties. Then the Reachmen can sail home hale and hearty after DS is taken. Not exactly going on a death mission now is it?

 

Still is a mission where soldiers will die and the gain is nothing. The Tyrells do not need Cerseis permission to go defend their home land opposed to going to a worthless castle to them. Not super complicated

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4 hours ago, Jadakiss said:

Still is a mission where soldiers will die and the gain is nothing. The Tyrells do not need Cerseis permission to go defend their home land opposed to going to a worthless castle to them. Not super complicated

They do need her permission to get their navy home. That's why they ask for it and Redwyne obeys her commands. They don't need her permission for the armies to go home, but they still listen to her command to besiege SE.

Other than that, you're 100% right.

 

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On 2/15/2017 at 4:54 AM, Universal Sword Donor said:

They do need her permission to get their navy home. That's why they ask for it and Redwyne obeys her commands. They don't need her permission for the armies to go home, but they still listen to her command to besiege SE.

Other than that, you're 100% right.

 

Once they leave KL they dont need her permission for anything. Her fleet was stolen by aurane the liar waters. he is now the pirate king with her ships

so the other ships are under the tyrell/redwyne leadership. its insane to think they would go do a worthless mission and risk the time a siege would take or risk the men a castle storming would take while their homeland is being pillaged by iron born.

again mace used "sonS" as in plural. when talking about them getting the reach back. he has 3 and 1 is a cripple. Loras is not injured at all. If he was Mace would be somewhat troubled by the news

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1 minute ago, Jadakiss said:

Once they leave KL they dont need her permission for anything. Her fleet was stolen by aurane the liar waters. he is now the pirate king with her ships

so the other ships are under the tyrell/redwyne leadership. its insane to think they would go do a worthless mission and risk the time a siege would take or risk the men a castle storming would take while their homeland is being pillaged by iron born.

again mace used "sonS" as in plural. when talking about them getting the reach back. he has 3 and 1 is a cripple. Loras is not injured at all. If he was Mace would be somewhat troubled by the news

It's insane to think they would do exactly what they are doing? Paxter Redwyne is doing exactly that until Loras shows up to expedite the process, for reasons of which he was unaware to be sure. However POV characters see the Redwyne fleet ferrying westermen to DS for the siege. The Redwyne fleet doesn't round Dorne until the epilogue of ADWD. If they are indeed ignoring Cersei's order, they clearly aren't going anywhere and just twiddling their thumbs. 

If you can explain why they wouldn't bother leaving for the Reach ASAP once word reaches them about the IB, I'd love to hear it.

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  • 3 weeks later...

@Neds_head   pretty much one of my points. There is no benefit for the tyrells to go there. they dont needs cerseis permission. no way would risk any soldiers or time for a siege while their region is being pillaged

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 in the epilouge of dances with dragons when mace tyrell says they found no wealth at dragon stone dispite searching everywhere Kevan lannister pointed out (in his thought) that he doubted they searched top to bottom given his son was crippled (some word like that) and couldn't search and the only son that could be at dragonstone was loras. I doubt the tyrells could have kept it such a secret that kevan lannister could not have found it out for what was probably more then a month afterwards. Alot of people had to have seen it.

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1 hour ago, Jadakiss said:

@Neds_head   pretty much one of my points. There is no benefit for the tyrells to go there. they dont needs cerseis permission. no way would risk any soldiers or time for a siege while their region is being pillaged

This all makes sense if you disregard literally everything touching on the topic in the canon material, semi-canon material, and 99% of reader's minds and written word.

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