Football: Reds Rising!!

[Mark Antony]

Chelsea haven't really lost a step whether it's Fabregas or Matic next to Kante. 

[BigFatCoward]

10 hours ago, Calibandar said:

I feel this thread did not spend enough time talking about how Man City got trampled by Everton, and what a highly problematic and overrated team this is. Even Pep can't help this club.

what makes you think Pep isn't the problem?  Bravo has apparently conceded on 8 of the last 14 shots he has faced, entirely Peps doing.

Maybe not having all the best players in the league has highlighted that he is one of the most over rated coaches in history.  

[Philokles]

You know what you are getting if you hire Pep Guardiola as manager. He isn't going to compromise over a high line and possession football. As an ex-Barca man Begiristain should know this better than most. He had half a year to prepare from the time it was publicly announced, more time before when the deal had not been disclosed, and years prior to that where Guardiola was their prime target. City have been building towards him as manager at least since Begiristain was appointed in 2012, which was a pretty clear statement of their ambitions.

Toure would be better classified with KDB, Silva and other attacking midfielders than Fernandinho and Gundogan. Trying to play him as a replacement for one of those two makes City excessively top heavy. De Bruyne's loss of form dates to around the time that Toure came back into the side, which makes sense as he is a domineering player in the attack who can disrupt the others' rhythm.

[baxus]

12 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Maybe not having all the best players in the league has highlighted that he is one of the most over rated coaches in history.  

I'm far from being a Pep's fan, but he's nowhere near as bad as some people are trying to make him out to be.

Switching from what was basically a two-horse race (at best) during his time in Spain and what was definitely a one-horse race during his time in Germany, only the most optimistic of City fans would expect him to continue with the same in the Premiership. There seems to be something in that old "on a windy Tuesday night in Stoke" saying, after all.  

[mormont]

Well, except that Guardiola actually won 4-1 away at Stoke.

[lacuna]

1 hour ago, mormont said:

Well, except that Guardiola actually won 4-1 away at Stoke.

Ah, but was it windy on the day in question?

[mormont]

It wasn't a Tuesday, to be fair. So that question is still open.

[baxus]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

Well, except that Guardiola actually won 4-1 away at Stoke.

Should we pretend that's funny or what?

[Calibandar]

15 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

what makes you think Pep isn't the problem?  Bravo has apparently conceded on 8 of the last 14 shots he has faced, entirely Peps doing.

Maybe not having all the best players in the league has highlighted that he is one of the most over rated coaches in history.  

I just don't think he's overrated. He's been very succesful with Bayern and Barca, and while it is certainly true that in those cases he was given tremendous squads that overpowered most of the opposition, it's also true that under Guardiola's management, Barca played better than it has of late under Luis Enrique. At the same time he was a little less succesful than Heynckes at Bayern, but still, the team played very well.

So his time at City is the first period in which he faces adversity, similar to Mancini and Pellegrini. It's normal to face adversity at City, the club embodies it.

[mormont]

1 hour ago, baxus said:

Should we pretend that's funny or what?

Oh, 'funny' might be overstating it. Wry, perhaps.

Of course one could also look at it as a way of gently pointing out that most of the sides Man City have struggled against this season don't play in the traditional, direct, blood-and-thunder English style that the 'wet and windy Tuesday in Stoke' blather is supposed to sum up*, but instead play an evolved version of the style Guardiola himself has championed his entire career, with the emphasis on fast counters rather than dominating possession but the basics of quick passing, movement and high pressing still intact. But go with 'pretend it's funny' if you prefer.

 

*in fact, in fairness, Stoke themselves don't really play this way either under Mark Hughes.

[baxus]

22 minutes ago, mormont said:

Oh, 'funny' might be overstating it. Wry, perhaps.

Of course one could also look at it as a way of gently pointing out that most of the sides Man City have struggled against this season don't play in the traditional, direct, blood-and-thunder English style that the 'wet and windy Tuesday in Stoke' blather is supposed to sum up*, but instead play an evolved version of the style Guardiola himself has championed his entire career, with the emphasis on fast counters rather than dominating possession but the basics of quick passing, movement and high pressing still intact. But go with 'pretend it's funny' if you prefer.

 

*in fact, in fairness, Stoke themselves don't really play this way either under Mark Hughes.

I always thought that saying pointed out that non-top teams tend to roll over for the big teams a lot less often in Premiership than in Primera and/or Bundesliga.

If you want to turn a (at one time) funny phrase, over analyze it and add hidden meanings and layers to it, you have fun.

[Mexal]

55 minutes ago, Calibandar said:

I just don't think he's overrated. He's been very succesful with Bayern and Barca, and while it is certainly true that in those cases he was given tremendous squads that overpowered most of the opposition, it's also true that under Guardiola's management, Barca played better than it has of late under Luis Enrique. At the same time he was a little less succesful than Heynckes at Bayern, but still, the team played very well.

So his time at City is the first period in which he faces adversity, similar to Mancini and Pellegrini. It's normal to face adversity at City, the club embodies it.

I agree with this though the only caveat I'll add is that Pep almost always has unlimited budgets. It's not like he's coaching an Everton with a 20m summer budget.

But I do agree that him facing adversary at City in his first year doesn't mean much.

[mormont]

36 minutes ago, baxus said:

I always thought that saying pointed out that non-top teams tend to roll over for the big teams a lot less often in Premiership than in Primera and/or Bundesliga.

No, it never meant that, I'm afraid.

36 minutes ago, baxus said:

If you want to turn a (at one time) funny phrase, over analyze it and add hidden meanings and layers to it, you have fun.

Well, I didn't. I just threw it out there as an aside. If you hadn't tried to be snarky about it, I wouldn't have had to add the explanation.

[MisterOJ]

Klopp clearly doesn't give a damn about the FA Cup with this lineup.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Looks like a reasonable line up against a lower classed opponent.

Giving his squad players and from an injury recovering Coutinho some needed match practice. And the youngsters on his squad need some experience from competitive matches, too. 

[Consigliere]

16 minutes ago, MisterOJ said:

Klopp clearly doesn't give a damn about the FA Cup with this lineup.

Disagree.

Since coming in Klopp has shown great faith in the youngsters and Liverpool have a number of good prospects there. I'm quite certain that Klopp absolutely believes that this lineup can beat Plymouth. In the first game, Liverpool's youngest ever starting XI completely dominated Plymouth without scoring. With a bit more experience in this lineup plus the class of Coutinho, Liverpool are overwhelming favourites to win this one.

[Iskaral Pust]

That's pretty much the line-up I wanted.  I'm not too bothered if we progress but I want to see our squad players get some games and be more prepared to step into the first team.  Plus we needed to rest the other players, we've looked exhausted these past few weeks.

Probably a good thing that Can is getting a rest.  He's in terrible form lately.  The last game against Plymouth was a chance for him to play is way back into form and it bombed.

[Iskaral Pust]

The big disappointment is that Grujic has been injured just as these cup games would have given him a chance to play.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

Just now, Iskaral Pust said:

Probably a good thing that Can is getting a rest.  He's in terrible form lately.  The last game against Plymouth was a chance for him to play is way back into form and it bombed.

That's harsh. Can's job was to organize and "orchestrate" Liverpool's play. Given the possession numbers he did a reasonable job imo. To lay the full blame for the uninspiring delivery in the final third at his feet feels a bit unfair to me. Liverpool lacked any bite at the top front in that game. It was a bit better after Sturridge came on.

[Iskaral Pust]

23 minutes ago, Notone said:

That's harsh. Can's job was to organize and "orchestrate" Liverpool's play. Given the possession numbers he did a reasonable job imo. To lay the full blame for the uninspiring delivery in the final third at his feet feels a bit unfair to me. Liverpool lacked any bite at the top front in that game. It was a bit better after Sturridge came on.

Considering he has looked well below the level of the first team players in most league games and then looked no better than the level of the back-ups in the cup game, I think he missed a good chance to play his way back into form.  I don't know why he has dropped so much from last year but he needs some help to find his form again.