Stannis and Danerys <3

[Lady Blizzardborn]

12 hours ago, PCK said:

With the appearance of Aegon and the supposed word that a second dance of dragons will occur, what role does Stannis have left in the story? It sounds like some page space needs to be set aside for the other things I mentioned. 

He has Targaryen blood, so in theory he's got a shot at riding a dragon...if he gets the opportunity.  

That aside, if Stannis decides to support any Targaryen it will be huge for said Targ!  Stannis who claims to be the only rightful king--and even used magic to kill his own brother--giving up the claim in favor of a member of a deposed family who he feels has a better/stronger claim would be front-page news so to speak. There are enough people like Davos around who trust Stannis' judgment more than Stannis himself does, that it could make a difference among the ground troops in the Dance 2.0. The smallfolk probably wouldn't care either way, but the smallfolk don't do the fighting either. If the non-Dany side gets a dragon, it may be the ground troops who decide the winner.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

13 hours ago, PCK said:

With the appearance of Aegon and the supposed word that a second dance of dragons will occur, what role does Stannis have left in the story? It sounds like some page space needs to be set aside for the other things I mentioned. 

Another Blackfyre war you mean

[Coolbeard the Exile]

11 hours ago, Maxxine said:

Manderly has what 20 something ships. Would that be enough against the IB and Volantis ships. I don't think so. Maybe Stannis' prowess as a general helps but it's nowhere near enough to make Dany think she has to marry him to avoid a naval battle where her fleet would most likely grossly outnumber his. 

Also, I'm not convinced the battle of the gullet somehow proves that naval warfare if the best way to defeat dragons. True two dragons died. But one was young and was trying to retreat and seemingly didn't attack at all. The other was described as flying too low which indicates rider error as opposed to how great ships are against dragons. 

Davos saw 23 war galleys but Manderly said there were many more hidden up the White Knife. It will also take some time for Danerys to get over to Westeros so they can build more and the stolen Royal Fleet will probably join him and that would but him up to around 100 ships. Also the Iron Bank will pay for more ships.

Well the 3 dragons only have 1 rider so they probably arent to smart in battle without a smart human so control them.

War galleys are known to have scorpions and catapults and Stannis also specifically mentioned that he wanted archers from Justin Massey which will be useful against dragons.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

10 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I would guess as Maxxine wrote above, that Danaerys will have have the Iron Fleet and probably a signifigant number of Volentene ship, and considering she frees slaves, maybe some Bravosi support as well. Her fleet will bigger than his, her army will be bigger than his, her popularity in Westeros will probably even be greater than his, and she hates his guts, AND she has the greater claim,...AANNNDDD she has dragons. This will make absolutely no sense for her to marry Stannis. None. Aegon, perhaps, Willas Tyrell, perhaps, Jon Targaryen, perhaps...Stannis, no. 

Exactly, she has a far greater claim to the throne than him.

It does if he chooses to wed her. If he had the power to like force her to wed him, it would improve his claik I suppose, but he doesn't. He would have to woo her, and so therefore admit her claim was greater than his. Let's not forget, most of Westeros thinks Tommen is Robert's heir. Stannis' claim is weak at best even without Danaerys there.

Her army and fleet will be bigger than Stannis but as i said Danerys troops arent suited for naval warfare and Stannis is the best commander in Westeros.

Stannis was Master of Ships for a long time and he fought many battles and rebuilt the Royal Fleet completely and retrained it's crews. The Manderly fleet's crew is noted as being bad but i bet you Stannis will shape it up.

Stannis would have 10 huge dromonds and the rest war galleys. Im not sure but i bet you Stannis ships are better than the Volanteene ships. He would probably have some smart plan like at the battle of Fair Isle.

She dosnt have a better claim her house was conquered.

Stannis claim is the best and it seems kind of wide known and speculated that Tommen is incest.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

9 hours ago, Protagoras said:

If we ignore the practical problems here (and they are many), the only reason I can see for Daenerys to giving up her personal claim and become a queen consort for Stannis is if her claim isn´t passed over, but reinforced. That is - the important thing is not necessary Daenerys ass on the throne, but the restoration of the Targaryens. And there can be no possible peace (to not speak of an alliance) with a side that believes that Baratheons, due to Roberts illegal usurping, are the rightful monarchs. But an enlightened, mature Daenerys might see a value beyond her own ambition.

Hence, in order for this to work means that Stannis (and all of his blood after him) will forsake the name Baratheon, declare house Baratheon as usurpers and crown himself under the name of King Stannis Targaryen, first of his name. Only then can I possibly (in a very, very far-fetched theory) see Daenerys accepting this. And make no mistake, this is what´s on the negotiation table - regardless of how "righteous" some Baratheon fans think Robers Usurping is. You really can´t eat the cookie and still have it here. Daenerys must recieve something important, something so important that she is willing to not only make peace, but ally and marry the brother of the man that killed her brother and usurped the crown. And "maybe a tough battle", return to Westeros and "maturity" doesn´t cut it.

Tbh, I doubt the OP really understand this. He seems to see this from a Stannis-pespecitive and see it as obvious with a Baratheon on the throne. So no wonder that Stannis gets basically everything in this scenario - the crown, more soldiers, access to dragons, the hot babe, the help he needs to take him from a poor position. And Daenerys gets? Return to Westeros and what more? A loveless marriage, a role as queen consort and the destruction of house Targaryen the same way House Durrendon was destroyed. And Daenerys should somehow just suck it up? Because she has matured? Please - maturity isn´t capitualition and submissiveness. In fact, to surrender so fully is more like the ways of a child, too dependant of his parents and without the will to think and act for himself. And to be mature is more to place something else (a long-term goal) in front of yourself (like "freedom of speech" or in her case - house Targaryens survival), not to simply follow the stream just because opposition "might be" difficult.

It also feels like several books too late. Daenerys did forsake much of her ideas about peace in the last book - she found it too hollow and too much like Hizdahrs kisses. And Stannis lost the last of his fleet with the defection of Sallador Saan, is fighting a bloody war in the North at a time the Others will come knockin´ and quite frankly hasn´t got those sellswords yet. And Hizdahr at least was able to give her what she thought she wanted. Stannis is most certainly not in a "strong position" to stop Daenerys nor to assist her. His best chance to get this marriage is to do as Orys did, that is beat her in battle and marry her afterwards when she has nothing and considering Stannis assets atm, I don´t find that likely. This is a deal that could have been made maybe in Storm of Swords, before Stannis left for the wall and before Daenerys went for Mereen, but even then I would easily have held 100 to 1 against such a deal.

Danerys gets to land on Wesyeros unmolested, marriage with the most powerful person, the fact that Stannis is a follower of the red god would actually help with Danerys being the mother of dragons and all and the smallfolk would probably like it, she dosn't have to fight Stannis and conquer the North, she gets the best commander on her side, her marriage with Hizdahr is loveless so that is not a problem, by the time Danerys get's to Westeros she will know about the Others and the fact that Westeros needs to be UNITED NOW!!!.

And Danerys knows that Aerys was completely insane.

 

[Anck Su Namun]

On 12/30/2016 at 10:49 AM, Lord Vance II said:

 

We also have no idea what will happen with Justin Massey. If Massey's ship unceremoniously crashes or something, Stannis is out an army. 

 

Daenerys is crafty enough to make use of Justin Massey.  She will have a lot of new swords as soon as the slaves she freed completes their training.  They can pretend independence and talk to Massey.  Her sellswords could hire themselves out to Massey.  They make port on White Harbor unopposed.  They march south and take down the Lannisters.  The "sellswords" hold the throne and await the arrival of Queen Daenerys to take her rightful place as ruler of the seven kingdoms.

[Protagoras]

11 hours ago, BeastMaster64 said:

Danerys gets to land on Wesyeros unmolested, marriage with the most powerful person, the fact that Stannis is a follower of the red god would actually help with Danerys being the mother of dragons and all and the smallfolk would probably like it, she dosn't have to fight Stannis and conquer the North, she gets the best commander on her side, her marriage with Hizdahr is loveless so that is not a problem, by the time Danerys get's to Westeros she will know about the Others and the fact that Westeros needs to be UNITED NOW!!!.

And Danerys knows that Aerys was completely insane.

 

First, it´s Daenerys, not Danerys.

Second, if you give up your goals you never need to struggle with anything. That doesn´t make such a choice smart.

Third, do you even understand why your suggestion of the terms of alliance are unacceptable? Why the Targaryen claim is a really big deal here. Because it doesn´t seem that you do and if you are unable to understand someone then how can you ever reach a deal with them? And you have ignored basically all my points in my previous response. But above all, you don´t seem to grasp this. Daenerys want to restore house Targaryen on the throne. That you and Stannis disagree doesn´t in any shape or form change this quest. So if you want to ally with such a person, you need to offer them what they want, not doubling down on "its not your throne". Either Stannis fold the Baratheon claim or there will be no peace, regardless of "musts" like "uniting westeros". Get that into your head.

Fourth, If stopping the others and uniting Westeros is so important why can´t Stannis give up his claim and become Daenerys king consort instead of vice versa? Why is Daenerys the one who have to make the sacrifices and not the so-called Azor Ahai, the savior who has been send to help the world. By your own admission, you think the fight with Stannis would be tough and costly. Well, then - maybe Stannis should surrender to Daenerys. After all, Stannis doesn´t profit from such a war either

Fifth, Stannis is far from the most powerful person nor very likeable. The smallfolk would hate his new god and he was never popular with the nobles. Regardless of Aerys sanity and and the Others, Stannis is a losing bet. If surrendering is all Daenerys wants, why not surrender to the Iron Throne and give them her dragons. Your write-up of Stannis seems like a fairy tale - he has his strong points, but you try to create some kind of Aragorn mythos around the man. Stannis is weak, has no shortage of enemies, few friends, no popularity, low amount of troops, is in a region far away to have a chance of stopping Daenerys landing, no fleet, few holds etc etc etc.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

45 minutes ago, Protagoras said:

First, it´s Daenerys, not Danerys.

Second, if you give up your goals you never need to struggle with anything. That doesn´t make such a choice smart.

Third, do you even understand why your suggestion of the terms of alliance are unacceptable? Why the Targaryen claim is a really big deal here. Because it doesn´t seem that you do and if you are unable to understand someone then how can you ever reach a deal with them? And you have ignored basically all my points in my previous response. But above all, you don´t seem to grasp this. Daenerys want to restore house Targaryen on the throne. That you and Stannis disagree doesn´t in any shape or form change this quest. So if you want to ally with such a person, you need to offer them what they want, not doubling down on "its not your throne". Either Stannis fold the Baratheon claim or there will be no peace, regardless of "musts" like "uniting westeros". Get that into your head.

Fourth, If stopping the others and uniting Westeros is so important why can´t Stannis give up his claim and become Daenerys king consort instead of vice versa? Why is Daenerys the one who have to make the sacrifices and not the so-called Azor Ahai, the savior who has been send to help the world. By your own admission, you think the fight with Stannis would be tough and costly. Well, then - maybe Stannis should surrender to Daenerys. After all, Stannis doesn´t profit from such a war either

Fifth, Stannis is far from the most powerful person nor very likeable. The smallfolk would hate his new god and he was never popular with the nobles. Regardless of Aerys sanity and and the Others, Stannis is a losing bet. If surrendering is all Daenerys wants, why not surrender to the Iron Throne and give them her dragons. Your write-up of Stannis seems like a fairy tale - he has his strong points, but you try to create some kind of Aragorn mythos around the man. Stannis is weak, has no shortage of enemies, few friends, no popularity, low amount of troops, is in a region far away to have a chance of stopping Daenerys landing, no fleet, few holds etc etc etc.

First grammar nazi

Secondi dont understand

Third i don't think Stannis will say fuck this shit Dany has the better claim because she dosn't Stannis is the rightful King. I dont understand what that other thing means.

Fourth Stannis is a stubborn and proud dude who is quite uncompromising. Justice and what is right is also very important to him.

Fifth i would argue that Stannis in the future be the most powerful man in Westeros. He has the biggest fleet, biggest army, he is infininetly wealthy and he is the best commander. The Westerosi people hate his religion but if news spread of the others and if red priests and Dany comes with her dragons they would probably suspect something and be happy about the Red God. There is a diffrence between surrendering and marrying are you iq relieved? I dont understand what you think is fairytaleish about this please elaborate for me. 

Sixth Stannis the Mannis isn't weak didn't you know the Wall was built to protect the Others from Stannis?

Fourth 

[Protagoras]

20 hours ago, BeastMaster64 said:

First grammar nazi

Secondi dont understand

Third i don't think Stannis will say fuck this shit Dany has the better claim because she dosn't Stannis is the rightful King. I dont understand what that other thing means.

Fourth Stannis is a stubborn and proud dude who is quite uncompromising. Justice and what is right is also very important to him.

Fifth i would argue that Stannis in the future be the most powerful man in Westeros. He has the biggest fleet, biggest army, he is infininetly wealthy and he is the best commander. The Westerosi people hate his religion but if news spread of the others and if red priests and Dany comes with her dragons they would probably suspect something and be happy about the Red God. There is a diffrence between surrendering and marrying are you iq relieved? I dont understand what you think is fairytaleish about this please elaborate for me. 

Sixth Stannis the Mannis isn't weak didn't you know the Wall was built to protect the Others from Stannis?

Fourth 

Sigh - either you are trolling or somehow unable to understand me, and I don´t care which. I am wasting my time here.

You are coming out as a Stannis-fan in order to seek a compromize with the Targ-fans in order for an alliance and has presented a suggestion for such a deal. And to a man, no one in the Targ-fans category think this is a great compromize. And the only requirement to understand why this doesn´t work is to see this from Daenerys perspective, something most people on this forum seems to be able to do.

In short, if you try to convince the other side about this great alliance-idea you have then you are not really doing a great job. Rather the opposite actually.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

16 hours ago, Protagoras said:

Sigh - either you are trolling or somehow unable to understand me, and I don´t care which. I am wasting my time here.

You are coming out as a Stannis-fan in order to seek a compromize with the Targ-fans in order for an alliance and has presented a suggestion for such a deal. And to a man, no one in the Targ-fans category think this is a great compromize. And the only requirement to understand why this doesn´t work is to see this from Daenerys perspective, something most people on this forum seems to be able to do.

In short, if you try to convince the other side about this great alliance-idea you have then you are not really doing a great job. Rather the opposite actually.

You answer so short saying i dont understand explain then dont give me that.

How am i doing the opposite of explaining why it could be a possibility.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On 12/31/2016 at 10:44 PM, BeastMaster64 said:

Her army and fleet will be bigger than Stannis but as i said Danerys troops arent suited for naval warfare and Stannis is the best commander in Westeros.

Stannis was Master of Ships for a long time and he fought many battles and rebuilt the Royal Fleet completely and retrained it's crews. The Manderly fleet's crew is noted as being bad but i bet you Stannis will shape it up.

Stannis would have 10 huge dromonds and the rest war galleys. Im not sure but i bet you Stannis ships are better than the Volanteene ships. He would probably have some smart plan like at the battle of Fair Isle.

She dosnt have a better claim her house was conquered.

Stannis claim is the best and it seems kind of wide known and speculated that Tommen is incest.

That is not how claims work. The reason Robert was King and not Eddard or Jon Arryn was that he had a better claim. People do not forget claims. The reason why Robert feared Daenerys was again, her superior claim. 

[The Drunkard]

On 12/30/2016 at 10:46 PM, BeastMaster64 said:

What do you guys think of this and is it possible that they would marry?

Completely unlikely. In a world where the Others don't exist and Stannis conquers the North + takes the Manderly fleet + builds himself a sellsword army, all to conquer the south, it might make some sense for them to marry if you could (somehow) convince the two of them to do so. But Stannis won't be leaving the North until the Others are defeated or he is defeated fighting them, and Dany won't begin her invasion by landing in the North, so I think it's pretty unlikely that they'll even run into each other. At least until Dany has conquered the south or Stannis has been driven out of the north, but by that time there won't be much reason for a marriage.

[Coolbeard the Exile]

1 hour ago, The Drunkard said:

Completely unlikely. In a world where the Others don't exist and Stannis conquers the North + takes the Manderly fleet + builds himself a sellsword army, all to conquer the south, it might make some sense for them to marry if you could (somehow) convince the two of them to do so. But Stannis won't be leaving the North until the Others are defeated or he is defeated fighting them, and Dany won't begin her invasion by landing in the North, so I think it's pretty unlikely that they'll even run into each other. At least until Dany has conquered the south or Stannis has been driven out of the north, but by that time there won't be much reason for a marriage.

Well Stannis MUST retake Dragonstone to get the dragonglass going again and it makes sense for Dragonstone to be the first place Dany invades. What do you think?

[Coolbeard the Exile]

8 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

That is not how claims work. The reason Robert was King and not Eddard or Jon Arryn was that he had a better claim. People do not forget claims. The reason why Robert feared Daenerys was again, her superior claim. 

I dont think anybody looked into Robert's claim he just destroyed house Targaryen and sat down on their chair. I dont think anyone questioned him sitting on it.

[Lord Varys]

Nobody is going to marry Stannis. If Selyse predeceased Stannis he would, most likely, follow his desire and legalize his affair with Melisandre. He really seems to enjoy the pleasure he gets from her.

Dany certainly isn't going to marry the dude she will easily enough recognize as one of the lies she is destined to slay. She actually saw a vision of Stannis in the House of the Undying.

[DominusNovus]

I personally think Stannis is practical enough to agree to Dany's claim if he's consort. Particularly in the face of civilization-level threats like the Others. I think Dany is proud enough to prefer his support to that of a false dragon like Aegon.

 

All that aside: What actual generals does Dany have at the moment? She has several competent commanders, like Selmy, Daario, and Grey Worm, but does she have any generals with experience coordinating entire campaigns?

[Coolbeard the Exile]

5 hours ago, DominusNovus said:

I personally think Stannis is practical enough to agree to Dany's claim if he's consort. Particularly in the face of civilization-level threats like the Others. I think Dany is proud enough to prefer his support to that of a false dragon like Aegon.

 

All that aside: What actual generals does Dany have at the moment? She has several competent commanders, like Selmy, Daario, and Grey Worm, but does she have any generals with experience coordinating entire campaigns?

I dont get what you are asking of Danys generals. 

[maudisdottir]

9 hours ago, BeastMaster64 said:

I dont think anybody looked into Robert's claim he just destroyed house Targaryen and sat down on their chair. I dont think anyone questioned him sitting on it.

Have you read the books?

Quote

"You were the one should have been king, you or Jon."

"You had the better claim, Your Grace."

"I told you to drink, not to argue.  You made me king, you could have the courtesy to listen when I talk, damn you."

 

[Coolbeard the Exile]

14 hours ago, maudisdottir said:

Have you read the books?

 

Sorry i guess you are right but the generall opinion still feels the same.

[Drogonthedread]

Dany can't marry a character who will not even be alive when she is in westeros..

And the second thing is he is the lie that dany is slaying ..

 

I agree with others that this whole thread is based on stannis getting everything and dany nothing ..so that's exactly why I think it will never happen and if OP cant see what others are saying then OP is either trolling or blinded by his fanboyism