Star Wars: Episode VIII predictions

[Kalbear]

Holy fuck, @Howdyphillip, just stop. JJ Abrams has already gone on record and stated that TFA was deliberately similar to ANH to reclaim cred from the fans. 

Quote

 

Abrams acknowledged the negative feedback the film has received from some who believe episode 7 was a carbon copy of A New Hope. Yet he felt that was the only way that he could succeed with putting life back into the franchise. “The weird thing about that movie is that it had been so long since the last one. Obviously the prequels had existed in between and we wanted to, sort of, reclaim the story. So we very consciously - and I know it is derided for this - we very consciously tried to borrow familiar beats so the rest of the movie could hang on something that we knew was Star Wars.”

“So all the characters - the Stormtrooper who turns, Finn played by John Boyega, and Rey, the character that Daisy plays, the Scavenger, Kylo Ren, the son of Han and Leia, and Poe the pilot - all these were characters and sort of their roles in the story needed to exist in something that predates them

 

So take it up with the actual director of the first new one and the producer of the three new ones about whether or not his choice was his actual choice. 

[Jaxom 1974]

18 minutes ago, Week said:

Reminds you too much of Arruckus aka Doon, the dessert planet? Rey has parallels to Pall, the Kumquat Haagendasz too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Lampoon's_Doon

Touche.

[ljkeane]

TFA is massively derivative HP. Let it go.

Like Scot I also hated it making space feel so small. Hopefully both things are better in The Last Jedi.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

Like Scot I also hated it making space feel so small. Hopefully both things are better in The Last Jedi.

Star Wars has always had this issue tho. Space never felt vast, unless it was meant to fit the story. For instance, how exactly do Rey and Finn leave Jakku on the Falcon if there is a Star Destroyer in orbit? Well, space is huge, and the Destroyer was on the other side of the planet or some such nonsense. Yet when it comes time for Han to track the Falcon he's on them in minutes after takeoff, it seems.

In ANH the first bit of hyperspace travel seems to actually take a deal of time. And that is the first and last time that hyperspace feels like an actual journey as opposed to a quick jump until TPM.  

[ljkeane]

4 minutes ago, Relic said:

Star Wars has always had this issue tho. Space never felt vast, unless it was meant to fit the story. For instance, how exactly do Rey and Finn leave Jakku on the Falcon if there is a Star Destroyer in orbit? Well, space is huge, and the Destroyer was on the other side of the planet or some such nonsense. Yet when it comes time for Han to track the Falcon he's on them in minutes after takeoff, it seems.

In ANH the first bit of hyperspace travel seems to actually take a deal of time. And that is the first and last time that hyperspace feels like an actual journey as opposed to a quick jump until TPM.  

True but at least there was sufficient ambiguity that you could hand wave it a bit and let it go. People watching the Starkiller base fire on planets in a different solar system with the naked eye was so bad you couldn't ignore it.

[Relic]

1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

True but at least there was sufficient ambiguity that you hand wave it a bit and let it go. People watching the Starkiller base fire on planets in a different solar system with the naked eye was so bad you couldn't ignore it.

Yeah but so is the RotJ attack on the death star. one moment the rebels are at their meeting point the next moment they Battlestar Galactica FTL within like 10 kilometers of the DS. 

[polishgenius]

2 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

I'm also not arguing that there are no similarities between the movies. Of course two movies based on the Joseph Campbell hero journey based in the same universe are going to have parallels.

You constantly bring up the 'hero's journey' as an excuse but there are probably millions of stories out there that fit the heroes journey template and apart from Eragon and David Eddings almost none of them are as alike to ANH as TFA is. That includes many Star Wars stories, especially in the old EU, so the setting argument doesn't fly either.

[Howdyphillip]

2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Holy fuck, @Howdyphillip, just stop. JJ Abrams has already gone on record and stated that TFA was deliberately similar to ANH to reclaim cred from the fans. 

So take it up with the actual director of the first new one and the producer of the three new ones about whether or not his choice was his actual choice. 

No where in this interview did Abrams say he was just going to rehash the first movie. He talked about bringing back familiar beats. He wanted the movie to feel like Star Wars. The entire structure and plot of the movie is completely different though while touching on things that are familiar. 

I have never said that the movies had no similarities. I have said it is lazy criticism calling it rehashed. The reason for this is because again, it is demonstratively false.

 

[A True Kaniggit]

5 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I agree it gives Lucas a great deal of credit for being so nuanced...im not certain he is, or meant to be.  Though at times, things do just happen...

However, the "rehash" aspect is not entirely invalid.  To tell the story of a hero's journey, while using similar beats and story elements without starting by having a droid, possessed of invaluable information, lost on a dessert planet and picked up by the plucky hero (heroine), who happens to be an orphan of sorts only to escape the dessert planet aboard a cargo ship of dubious repute (with the same ship and captain no less!) only to make their way to the rebellion/resistance after fighting their way out of capture by the evil Empire, only to have to return to destroy the enemy base to ensure the survival of the rebellion/resistance. 

No, it isn't exact.  No it isn't meant to be, most likely.  However, the basic structure of TFA is just pulled to closely from the template of ANH. That Rey helps BB-8 on Jakku doesn't have to be an issue, plenty of hero's journeys begin by the hero helping the individual who finds themselves in a situation out of their element.  No, the issue is that Jakku is a dessert planet, which evokes too much of a, "where have we seen this before" vibe.  It isn't that the Rebellion/Resistance teeters on the brink of destruction at the hands of their enemies, it's that said destruction comes at the hand of a planet sized laser which has been used to destroy a world once as an "example".

 

You forgot having the mentor/father figure killed by a Sith. 

[felice]

3 hours ago, Relic said:

Yeah but so is the RotJ attack on the death star. one moment the rebels are at their meeting point the next moment they Battlestar Galactica FTL within like 10 kilometers of the DS. 

Not exactly; they jump to hyperspace, then it cuts to the surface of Endor and the interior of the Death Star for six minutes of screen time before the fleet arrives. They could have been in hyperspace for hours in real time, and the staging point for the attack was presumably chosen to be conveniently close to Endor rather than on the other side of the galaxy.

1 hour ago, Howdyphillip said:

The entire structure and plot of the movie is completely different though while touching on things that are familiar.

To me it feels like an awkwardly hacked up version of the original's structure, with old and new elements badly integrated. Eg the planet killer being demonstrated and the rebels needing to launch a desperate assault before it can fire again and destroy their base still takes up a big chunk of the movie, but all the establishment of the planetkiller before it's used is lost, and instead of the droid being hunted by the bad guys having the data needed to destroy the planetkiller, they can just see where its weak spot is, and an ex-janitor happens to know who to threaten to turn off the shields. The hunt for Luke is basically irrelevant to the plot; sending Rey to him at the end would make just as much sense if Leia had known where he was all along.

[Joe Pesci]

22 minutes ago, felice said:

Not exactly; they jump to hyperspace, then it cuts to the surface of Endor and the interior of the Death Star for six minutes of screen time before the fleet arrives. They could have been in hyperspace for hours in real time, and the staging point for the attack was presumably chosen to be conveniently close to Endor rather than on the other side of the galaxy.

To me it feels like an awkwardly hacked up version of the original's structure, with old and new elements badly integrated. Eg the planet killer being demonstrated and the rebels needing to launch a desperate assault before it can fire again and destroy their base still takes up a big chunk of the movie, but all the establishment of the planetkiller before it's used is lost, and instead of the droid being hunted by the bad guys having the data needed to destroy the planetkiller, they can just see where its weak spot is, and an ex-janitor happens to know who to threaten to turn off the shields. The hunt for Luke is basically irrelevant to the plot; sending Rey to him at the end would make just as much sense if Leia had known where he was all along.

The hunt for Luke is the driving factor of the entire movie. The opening crawl of the movie is about both sides trying to find him. The piece of the map that contains his location is so important that when it falls out of the First Order's hands, they blow up the Republic, then go about trying to do the same to the Resistance base when Kylo Ren can't get the location from Rey.  Without the Resistance and the FO trying to find Luke, there really isn't a movie.

[Kalbear]

2 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

No where in this interview did Abrams say he was just going to rehash the first movie. He talked about bringing back familiar beats. He wanted the movie to feel like Star Wars. The entire structure and plot of the movie is completely different though while touching on things that are familiar. 

Again, he says specifically that he wanted to do a movie that was very similar. I think you're just splitting hairs to ignore what the actual director said. 

2 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

I have never said that the movies had no similarities. I have said it is lazy criticism calling it rehashed. The reason for this is because again, it is demonstratively false.

It isn't a scene for scene remake, no, but it absolutely has very similar structure, characters and plot - and that was entirely by design. Saying that you don't think it's true when it was done intentionally is ridiculous on its face. You can quibble about how much it was like the other, or how effective (or not) the homages and callbacks were - but the goal was entirely to be very close to the beats of ANH to show they could 'do' star wars and earn back cred from the prequels. 

16 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

The hunt for Luke is the driving factor of the entire movie. The opening crawl of the movie is about both sides trying to find him. The piece of the map that contains his location is so important that when it falls out of the First Order's hands, they blow up the Republic, then go about trying to do the same to the Resistance base when Kylo Ren can't get the location from Rey.  Without the Resistance and the FO trying to find Luke, there really isn't a movie.

Yep. And really, the movie works almost entirely without the Starkiller base (which apparently was put in fairly late in the tale, partially to give Poe more to do). The quest for Luke works perfectly fine as a MacGuffin for motivation and is the entire plot, complete with climax and denouement. By comparison we don't even know about the Starkiller base until something like halfway through the story. 

[Howdyphillip]

38 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

 

It isn't a scene for scene remake, no, but it absolutely has very similar structure, characters and plot - and that was entirely by design. Saying that you don't think it's true when it was done intentionally is ridiculous on its face. You can quibble about how much it was like the other, or how effective (or not) the homages and callbacks were - but the goal was entirely to be very close to the beats of ANH to show they could 'do' star wars and earn back cred from the prequels. 

 

So what you are saying is that isn't a rehash of the original and to call it so would be a lazy critique right? I agree with you. (To be fair, I agree with most all your points, I don't really get where the conflict here is.)

[felice]

44 minutes ago, Joe Pesci said:

The hunt for Luke is the driving factor of the entire movie. The opening crawl of the movie is about both sides trying to find him. The piece of the map that contains his location is so important that when it falls out of the First Order's hands, they blow up the Republic, then go about trying to do the same to the Resistance base when Kylo Ren can't get the location from Rey.  Without the Resistance and the FO trying to find Luke, there really isn't a movie.

But Luke himself plays no role in the film; BB-8 may as well have being carrying a recipe for the best chocolate cake in the galaxy. It's not at all clear why anyone cares about finding him (until the end when Rey presumably needs training), or whether it makes any difference to the First Order's attack on the Republic (building the starkiller obviously wasn't a response to BB-8 escaping). You could substitute any macguffin without changing the rest of the film, which compares unfavourably to the Death Star plans that play a vital role in the original. Or even no macguffin - Finn's defection is enough to drive the plot on its own, since he knows about the starkiller.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

Hmm, predictions for Episode VIII, huh?

Based on that first teaser trailer I've got one prediction for y'all--Luke will break our fucking hearts! How you gonna return the jedi in Episode VI then end the jedi in Episode VIII? Why, Luke? WHYYY!?!??!

[mormont]

5 hours ago, felice said:

But Luke himself plays no role in the film; BB-8 may as well have being carrying a recipe for the best chocolate cake in the galaxy.

Explains why he was lost on a dessert planet, I suppose.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

6 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Hmm, predictions for Episode VIII, huh?

Based on that first teaser trailer I've got one prediction for y'all--Luke will break our fucking hearts! How you gonna return the jedi in Episode VI then end the jedi in Episode VIII? Why, Luke? WHYYY!?!??!

Because, the Jedi and their code are fundamentally broken and have been for decades or longer.  I strongly suspect this is Luke rejecting the false "lightside/darkside" false dichotomy.

[dbunting]

16 hours ago, Howdyphillip said:

http://mashable.com/2015/12/23/force-awakens-is-no-remake/#C.0IpZJZauqm

I can post a web story also... I find this one to be much better than the intentional throwbacks that yours are harping on.

A battle? A New Hope opens with the boarding of a spacecraft and two armies fighting in space. The Force Awakens opens up with a conversation of where Luke is and then goes into a military slaughtering a peaceful village.

Desert? Tatonine is an entirely separate planet than Jaku. No sand people, no Jawas, no Dewbeks. It has its own natives and wildlife, and even goes a bit into explaining its economy which is salvaging years after an immense battle took place there. We spend the first 15 min of the movie there as opposed to the entire opening act on a desert planet in the original. They both have sand though, so they must be exactly the same.

Droids? Star Wars has two droid character meant to mimic the humorous relationship of two characters in Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress. There is a single droid in the Force Awakens who acts as character's side kick. They both have droids used for data storage though even though that data is completely different in nature. Shocking that a computer might be used for such.

Skywalkers? Do tell... What information did you know about the Skywalkers in the original movie, and what information do you know about them in this one? The only Skywalker descendant named in The Force Awakens is the antagonist.

Weapon? The entire focus of the movie Star Wars was led to destroy the Death Star. From the very first scene to the last. The Force Awakens was not about destroying Star Killer base, but two movies with war in the title did destroy a weapon of war.

 

Man you are making this out as if you have a personal stake in them not being similar. Fine, you don't like the word "battle" but both opened with the "evil" people killing the "good" people, then cut to a very sandy place where a hero was left/hidden. That hero now has a droid that the hero didn't have before and it links that hero to the existing conflict. That hero, one named Skywalker and the other linked, remember the whole vision with Luke's lightsaber, to the same Skywalker.

[dbunting]

Since this thread is actually titled predictions for VIII here we go. We spend a good amount of time with Rey being trained by Luke. Chewie, and Finn become Solo-Chewie. There is a feel that the good guys suffer pretty big losses this time. Luke never leaves the island again.

[Myrddin]

18 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Here's a rabbit hole I fell down earlier today...it makes some very interesting points regarding the first six movies.  I'm still plowing through it because it's so freaking dense.  Maybe people here have seen this...?

I read that a few years ago. I love this theory.