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Star Wars: Episode VIII predictions

411 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I could do without Dameron to be honest. I don't think he added a lot to the film really, and his character didn't leave much of an impression. 

Stannis answers this for me

10 hours ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

The original plan was to kill him off in the crash, but they liked Oscar Isaac enough to keep him alive, which is why he doesn't seem to add much. He had great chemistry with Finn though and Isaac's a very good actor, so I'm hoping he gets a more significant role in VIII.

If they expand his role I'm confident Isaac can make him a solo-ish type character. Besides Apocalypse (which was a broken character to work with) he's always impressed me in his roles. Having a regular character is also important for Star Wars as otherwise most of the new characters are all known or potential force users.

 

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1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Isn't that incorrect anyway? Even had Vader not turned on the Emperor, the Empire would still have crumbled. The Death Star would still have been destroyed and the Emperor killed

Well, Jedi and Sith always have to make everything about them. They're all a bit melodramatic that way.

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Yep. And emphasising that the Death Star and Palpatine were going down anyway doesn't really serve the way Snoke wants to spin things for Kylo, since his goal is to stoke and perpetuate Kylo's temper tantrum. Also appropos of nothing I still call Snoke Snokums. Snoke's just a cute name. Like a name for a cat.

 

Re the Leia situation: This is, to state the obvious, really really sad. Fisher's death was the celebrity passing last year that disheartened me the most.

 

I didn't think I'd have much of a preference as to what route they take to try and work themselves out of this really pretty major bind, but it turns out I do: I feel like a respectful recasting is best. So you've got offscreen write-out, cg, and recasting. Offscreen write-out maybe gets you some things in terms of the Kylo character: How will his path back to the light or further away from it be shaped by the universe denying him the emotional catharsis of a confrontation / reunion with his mother? There could be meat there. But I don't think it gets you nearly as much as it loses you, because it turns Leia's death into a trigger for her son's development, and that's bullshit not only in general but specifically because, as others have pointed out, this is Leia, one of pop culture's and Star Wars' most crucial figures, and writing her out off screen or with some quick hand wave is weak sauce. The ending of her story should be an ending for her, not for other characters: She should get to reunite with Luke; she should get to confront the person who is both her son and the guy who murdered her best friend in the universe; she should get to do something big for the galaxy she has lived for. So offscreen death is out.

 

CG I think is just too creepy and uncomfortable, and, secondarily, might well not serve in these big emotional capstone scenes. It's interesting that Fisher was involved in the Leia cg for Rogue One, but I agree that's totally different: This would feel disrespectful, parading around a fake version of somebody who has died recently looking not like they did forty years ago, but very like the form in which people recognize them now. And, even if that's not enough, which I think it is, Tarkin in Rogue One, while a stunning achievement, mostly stood and looked at things and talked smack. Any cg Leia in IX would have to deliver and take big emotional hits, would have to feel things and make us feel them too. Is the tech there? Even if it is, would viewers be able to get beyond their awareness that they're watching a cg character to fully participate in the scene? Could cg Leia be anything other than an obstacle to the movie getting people where it wants them to go emotionally? Based on reactions I've observed to cg Tarkin I don't think so. So cg feels too icky and might not work anyway.

 

So: recasting. And, I think, recasting not just to be shuffled off as fast as possible, but recasting to participate, to respect the role that the character and Fisher have played in Star Wars, to send the character off properly. I think casting another performer who can do something great with the character for her last appearance, rather than getting hung up on how much she looks like Fisher and how quickly she can exit the story, is the move that honours Fisher and Leia the most. They're in a shitty situation whichever way they jump here, but I think this is the option which, if they did it well, audiences might come to forgive and even embrace the most. They can try and paper over their problem, or they can lean in to their problem; I think they should lean in to their problem.

 

I think they'll probably end up going with the quick write-out or the recast-with-as-little-screentime-as-feasible, though, and I'm sure those'll work out okay. It's trying to bandage something that can't be bandaged and I don't envy them.

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RE Maester Llama. You make a good argument about the recast and I'm reminded of the dumbledore recast in terms of getting another great actor to do the job. I guess Dumbledore wasn't as established at that point but it does show how recasting can work. I also need to keep in mind that Disney are actively recasting already with the young han solo film so it's not like they are breaking any rules about keeping the characters sacred to the original actor. I mean it's already happened with Obi Wan for that matter. Still, slightly different as you don't expect actors to play 30 year younger versions of themselves.

I also agree that it doens't need to be a look-a-like competition. The character has an iconic look and the hair-style helps identify her. Definitely better to find an actor who can do the character justice. I feel like it would be nice to let her family have some kind of say in who is recast.

I do feel like Carrie Fisher would probably want the character to have a proper send off - it's just a shame she couldn't do them herself. The rumoured scene in episode IX would have been a joy to behold.

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The original plan was to kill him off in the crash, but they liked Oscar Isaac enough to keep him alive, which is why he doesn't seem to add much. He had great chemistry with Finn though and Isaac's a very good actor, so I'm hoping he gets a more significant role in VIII.

Yeah, the Poe/Finn bromance was one of my favorite parts of Force Awakens. I hope he's a major part of all the episodes. Space Bros!

 

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16 minutes ago, red snow said:

RE Maester Llama. You make a good argument about the recast and I'm reminded of the dumbledore recast in terms of getting another great actor to do the job. I guess Dumbledore wasn't as established at that point but it does show how recasting can work. I also need to keep in mind that Disney are actively recasting already with the young han solo film so it's not like they are breaking any rules about keeping the characters sacred to the original actor. I mean it's already happened with Obi Wan for that matter. Still, slightly different as you don't expect actors to play 30 year younger versions of themselves.

I also agree that it doens't need to be a look-a-like competition. The character has an iconic look and the hair-style helps identify her. Definitely better to find an actor who can do the character justice. I feel like it would be nice to let her family have some kind of say in who is recast.

I do feel like Carrie Fisher would probably want the character to have a proper send off - it's just a shame she couldn't do them herself. The rumoured scene in episode IX would have been a joy to behold.

I think the Dumbledore recasting was awful. Grumbledore was ridiculous.

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13 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Yeah, the Poe/Finn bromance was one of my favorite parts of Force Awakens. I hope he's a major part of all the episodes. Space Bros!

 

Space bros :)

I wonder who chewie will hang out with now? I hope his screentime didn't end with Han dying.

5 minutes ago, ab aeterno said:

I think the Dumbledore recasting was awful. Grumbledore was ridiculous.

I've never been so close/attached to the Potterverse so didn't mind but it's true that the more someone loves a franchise the trickier recasting can be.

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Just now, red snow said:

Space bros :)

I wonder who chewie will hang out with now? I hope his screentime didn't end with Han dying.

I've never been so close/attached to the Potterverse so didn't mind but it's true that the more someone loves a franchise the trickier recasting can be.

Oh, I don't really care about Harry Potter either way, but when they recast with Gambon they seemed to abandon any attempt at making Dumbledore gentle and soft spoken. :lol: 

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Isn't that incorrect anyway? Even had Vader not turned on the Emperor, the Empire would still have crumbled. The Death Star would still have been destroyed and the Emperor killed

I don't think it's directly in the movie, but I read/heard somewhere (Perhaps the old Star wars tabletop rpg book) that the Emperor was using a powerful force ability to guide the Imperial fleet during that battle, even while torturing Luke with lightning, etc. Now it's possible they would have destroyed the Death Star anyway, but I'm not quite sure what would have happened if the Emperor lived. The Emperor was very powerful and certainly the Imperial fleet would have fought much better with him alive.

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Space bros :)

I wonder who chewie will hang out with now? I hope his screentime didn't end with Han dying.

 

I'd suspect he will stay with the Falcon and adopt Rey. It was quite clear he liked her a lot in FA. Possible he could hang out with Leia a while though.

 

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4 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

I don't think it's directly in the movie, but I read/heard somewhere (Perhaps the old Star wars tabletop rpg book) that the Emperor was using a powerful force ability to guide the Imperial fleet during that battle, even while torturing Luke with lightning, etc. Now it's possible they would have destroyed the Death Star anyway, but I'm not quite sure what would have happened if the Emperor lived. The Emperor was very powerful and certainly the Imperial fleet would have fought much better with him alive.

I'd suspect he will stay with the Falcon and adopt Rey. It was quite clear he liked her a lot in FA. Possible he could hang out with Leia a while though.

 

I'm trying to remember if Chewie was with her at the end of the film? I guess he was waiting in case a traffic warden tried to give them a ticket.

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2 hours ago, red snow said:

I'm trying to remember if Chewie was with her at the end of the film? I guess he was waiting in case a traffic warden tried to give them a ticket.

Yeah, Chewie and R2 stayed put. They probably took one look at those stairs and decided that there was important stuff to do in the Falcon.

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6 minutes ago, Jon AS said:

Yeah, Chewie and R2 stayed put. They probably took one look at those stairs and decided that there was important stuff to do in the Falcon.

Clearly they're remembering the second from last time they were with Luke and he gave them both to Jabba the Hutt.

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9 hours ago, ab aeterno said:

Clearly they're remembering the second from last time they were with Luke and he gave them both to Jabba the Hutt.

Second from last?  They go to Jabba's obviously.  Artoo and him go to Degobah after, then reunite with the others on the Alliance flagship.  Then of course the long "fly casual" shuttle ride, then going through forest adventures until Luke ditches them as always until meeting yet again at the great party celebrating the Forest Moon and all its inhabitants's impending death.

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Posted (edited)

 

13 hours ago, red snow said:

I wonder who chewie will hang out with now? I hope his screentime didn't end with Han dying.

I really hope Han changed his will before he died so that  Chewie gets the Falcon and not Ben.

But I can see him hanging out with Rey.  She does need a ship, and the Falcon is available  

Even if he doesn't travel with Rey I think that as long as no one throws a moon at him, he'll be okay. 

Edited by A True Kaniggit

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15 hours ago, ab aeterno said:

Oh, I don't really care about Harry Potter either way, but when they recast with Gambon they seemed to abandon any attempt at making Dumbledore gentle and soft spoken. :lol: 

Could have been worse - Brian Blessed might have got the part!

13 hours ago, Jon AS said:

Yeah, Chewie and R2 stayed put. They probably took one look at those stairs and decided that there was important stuff to do in the Falcon.

Ha. This missed a great opportunity to show us R2D2's rocket boosters have always been there and he just didn't want to use them in the the original trilogy.

2 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

 

I really hope Han changed his will before he died so that  Chewie gets the Falcon and not Ben.

 

For some strange reason I'd love to see that as a b plot. Or maybe in a spin-off show called Star Lawyers.

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3 hours ago, Slurktan said:

Second from last?  They go to Jabba's obviously.  Artoo and him go to Degobah after, then reunite with the others on the Alliance flagship.  Then of course the long "fly casual" shuttle ride, then going through forest adventures until Luke ditches them as always until meeting yet again at the great party celebrating the Forest Moon and all its inhabitants's impending death.

I consider everything during the Death Star mission as one time.

38 minutes ago, red snow said:

Could have been worse - Brian Blessed might have got the part!

Nah, that would have been better - "POTTER'S ALIVE?!?!"

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1 hour ago, ab aeterno said:

I consider everything during the Death Star mission as one time.

Nah, that would have been better - "POTTER'S ALIVE?!?!"

and "Voldemort's ALIVE?!?"

actually we could do with a guest appearance from him in rebels - the next time we see Maul.

Speaking of, need to watch the new episode.

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

Speaking of, need to watch the new episode.

A bit underwhelming, IMO, given the marketing around it.

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Yeah, the Harry Potter series' recasting of Dumbledore I think makes a great model for how I'd prefer Star Wars handle this awfulness. Not necessarily in execution -- I am far, far less attached to the Potter films than to the books, but I too am deeply puzzled by Grumbledore and think they swung and missed badly. But the way they just recast and carried on is what I'd like to see. I'm sure in that situation they felt they had no choice, because there were already additional Harry Potter books and those books had plot-critical roles for Dumbledore in them. Episode 9, on the other hand, is still in flux, so they can fiddle and probably will. I just don't think they should feel obligated: It's absolutely terrible that Fisher can't return to do those big scenes for her character; her versions of them would have been wonderful and the best possible versions. But that doesn't mean they should now not happen. If the best version of the story they wanna tell in Episode 9 has a large role for Leia in it then it should continue to have a large role for Leia in it, and they should cast someone awesome, give Fisher's family a big role in deciding who that is as Red Snow suggests, get that person the iconic Leia hair, put "in loving memory of Carrie Fisher" credits and title cards all over the next movies, and carry on. They should tell the tale they wanted to tell and just make sure they don't put the Leia equivalent of Michael Gambon in it.

 

It is amazing to me what can happen to Maul and he just keeps on keeping on. Is he made out of rubber?

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 I finally got around to watching Postcards From the Edge again this weekend as my Carrie Fisher rewatch journey continues. For those that do not know, This movie was based off a fictitious, yet semi autobiographical novel written by her.

 While watching, it amazed me yesterday how much Meryl Streep acted like Carrie while not looking like her very much at all. I am saying this to add to the recast discussion. I'm not sure I am in favor of a recast, or cgi, or a write out yet, but Streep should probably be discussed if they use the former... 

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