The Long Night's Watch - the Undead Companions of the Last Hero

[ravenous reader]

3 minutes ago, LmL said:

I interpret this scene in a few ways. One, as a clue that Dawn is a sword of ice magic from the north - the original Ice of House Stark in other words. 

But dragonglass is something different. I'm not sure if a burnt out fire could be symbolic of dragonglass... maybe, I've interpreted drowned fire as fire cooled into stone or obsidian. There's also a thing about Jon breaking ice and melting ice (with his piss) after he is done talking with Gilly about the Others. He snaps the ice off of his black cloak and then picks up Longclaw, almost as if it was apiece of black ice. Honestly there is a lot going on in this scene and I need to look at it again. 

The symbol of dragonglass in this scene is twofold: firstly the black tents housing the black brothers which have iced up; and then the crystal black cloak Jon slips into -- it's like they're encased in dragonglass!

[ravenous reader]

4 minutes ago, SiSt said:

Not really being into the nennymoans, and not knowing if it's been discussed earlier, anemones do look quite a bit like crowns, which would explain their placement. 

They do indeed.

4 minutes ago, SiSt said:

Sansa wears poison in her hairnet, and is set up to inherit Winterfell with enough dead brothers, is heir to casterly rock through Tyrion? 

Yes, we've discussed the black-purple 'amethysts' from Asshai as being 'nennymoans' of a sort and also possibly alluding to the fire moon meteors -- fiery kisses!

Similarly, I would argue the 'weirnet' or fishing garth trap containing the fiery weirwood seed is analogous to Sansa's net.

4 minutes ago, SiSt said:

Under the sea, seems to refer to "in winter" as well as "in death" (logical with the two being symbolically the same), so part of these quotes may refer to things that are done in winter (the long night in particular) with cannibalism, blood sacrifice etc following in the wake of famine. "Under the sea, the crows are white as snow." White ravens symbolize winter, and with inversions you have the "white raven" calling the "crow white". As well as dead Jon, as mentioned above. 

Don't know where this is going... Down the rabbit hole, I guess. 

GRRM is the thing that came in the night, and we his 'prentices...

[ravenous reader]

22 minutes ago, LmL said:

Dawn = original Ice yes, but not the red sword of Azor Ahai, no. That would be the black one. 

The black vs. white sword thing really dizzies my brain!

[Voice]

3 hours ago, LmL said:

Yes, this is Jon's resurrection, where he will emerge from the see as a pale ghost with red eyes, a weirwood ghost as @Voiceso eloquently put it. 

 

That's what I call "barking up the right tree."  

[LmL]

12 minutes ago, Voice said:

 

That's what I call "barking up the right tree."  

Haha, nice. I do love that essay and refer others to it often (see what I did there)

Have you read / listened to my green zombie series which is all about undead skinchangers by chance?

[LmL]

Just now, ravenous reader said:

The symbol of dragonglass in this scene is twofold: firstly the black tents housing the black brothers which have iced up; and then the black cloak Jon slips into -- it's like they're encased in dragonglass!

Right, the brothers are - armored in black ice - and ready to fight at dawn. But Dawn isn't black ice - it's icy brightness. White ice. And Jon breaks the ice on his cloak before putting it on - what do you think that means?

One of my favorite dawn quotes, and it hints at the idea of Dawn as a wooden sword (weirwood sword):

As she slept amidst the rolling grasslands, Catelyn dreamt that Bran was whole again, that Arya and Sansa held hands, that Rickon was still a babe at her breast. Robb, crownless, played with a wooden sword, (King of Winter has a wooden sword?)  and when all were safe asleep, she found Ned in her bed, smiling. Sweet it was, sweet and gone too soon. Dawn came cruel, a dagger of light. (A wooden sword named Dawn, which was a dagger of light?)

Dawn, a cruel dagger of light. A little bit sinister, right? I found that interesting. As for color, white light contains all the colors of the spectrum, and most often, when the sun rises in ASOIAF, it returns all color to the world. There is no emphasis on red dawn above other color dawns, believe me I have looked. Sunset however is always red or purple or bloody. And as I said, the words which are by far used most often to describe "daen" as in sunrise are pale and cold.

It's also interesting to note that when the sun rises, Dawn breaks. Was the LH's broken sword a white one, and dragonsteel a black one? Lightbringer was white hot and smoking before entering NN's heart, and red ever after (another reason why Dawn probably =/= AA's LB). Your quote about the dragonsbreath surrounding the fallen moon maidens happens when dawn breaks.  The original comet, i my hypothesis, would have been white and grey and light blue like normal comets (and like LB) before it was split (broken sword), with one hitting the moon and one continuing on, but now red. So the idea of a broken white sword early in the process makes sense to me. Dawn breaks, a smiling knight (Bran anted to be a knight and was 'smiling," like a cheshire cat moon) falls and lies broken and dreaming, fallen moon maidens (meteors) are surrounded by dragonblood beneath the tree. 

 

 

[Bluetiger]

Quote

Ned knelt beside her. "He has years to find that answer, Arya. For now, it is enough to know that he will live." The night the bird had come from Winterfell, Eddard Stark had taken the girls to the castle godswood, an acre of elm and alder and black cottonwood overlooking the river. The heart tree there was a great oak, its ancient limbs overgrown with smokeberry vines; they knelt before it to offer their thanksgiving, as if it had been a weirwood. Sansa drifted to sleep as the moon rose, Arya several hours later, curling up in the grass under Ned's cloak. All through the dark hours he kept his vigil alone. When dawn broke over the city, the dark red blooms of dragon's breath surrounded the girls where they lay. "I dreamed of Bran," Sansa had whispered to him. "I saw him smiling.

Since @ravenous reader posted this quote, I'll just mention that 'smokeberry' contains 'berry' suffix, which is a form of 'berg', often found it toponymy. It means 'hill'. So mayhaps 'smokeberry' = smoky hill (Winterfell).

By the way, I really like that in English nearly all berries have something+berry structure... (blackberry, blueberry, mulberry, raspberry, smokeberry, strawberry, yew berry, sloe berry, lindenberry, cranberry, gooseberry, cloudberry, bilberry, bearberry, wolfsberry, seaberry, chokeberry, barberry, dewberry, elderberry, hackberry, huckleberry, jostaberry, cowberry, loganberry, marionberry, sheepberry, nannyberry, wineberry and so on...). In Polish these names are a comlete mess, each berry fruit with different roots and origins... When I see some obscure name, regional and rarely used, even I sometimes don't know what's that market stall selling... 

it makes creating plants or my own world much easier... ravenberry sounds nice, don't you think? And tigerberry even better...

Of all those English names I like 'mulberry' the most, and from Polish it'd be 'malina' = raspberry. And 'borówka' - the closest thing to 'berry' we have - it can be used to describe craneberry, blueberry and bilberry (but they still have their own names as well). It comes from 'bór' = conifer forest, and is often used in literature as archaism for 'woods'.

 

[Isobel Harper]

13 hours ago, LmL said:

Right, the brothers are - armored in black ice - and ready to fight at dawn. But Dawn isn't black ice - it's icy brightness. White ice. And Jon breaks the ice on his cloak before putting it on - what do you think that means?

One of my favorite dawn quotes, and it hints at the idea of Dawn as a wooden sword (weirwood sword):

As she slept amidst the rolling grasslands, Catelyn dreamt that Bran was whole again, that Arya and Sansa held hands, that Rickon was still a babe at her breast. Robb, crownless, played with a wooden sword, (King of Winter has a wooden sword?)  and when all were safe asleep, she found Ned in her bed, smiling. Sweet it was, sweet and gone too soon. Dawn came cruel, a dagger of light. (A wooden sword named Dawn, which was a dagger of light?)

Dawn, a cruel dagger of light. A little bit sinister, right? I found that interesting. As for color, white light contains all the colors of the spectrum, and most often, when the sun rises in ASOIAF, it returns all color to the world. There is no emphasis on red dawn above other color dawns, believe me I have looked. Sunset however is always red or purple or bloody. And as I said, the words which are by far used most often to describe "daen" as in sunrise are pale and cold.

It's also interesting to note that when the sun rises, Dawn breaks. Was the LH's broken sword a white one, and dragonsteel a black one? Lightbringer was white hot and smoking before entering NN's heart, and red ever after (another reason why Dawn probably =/= AA's LB). Your quote about the dragonsbreath surrounding the fallen moon maidens happens when dawn breaks.  The original comet, i my hypothesis, would have been white and grey and light blue like normal comets (and like LB) before it was split (broken sword), with one hitting the moon and one continuing on, but now red. So the idea of a broken white sword early in the process makes sense to me. Dawn breaks, a smiling knight (Bran anted to be a knight and was 'smiling," like a cheshire cat moon) falls and lies broken and dreaming, fallen moon maidens (meteors) are surrounded by dragonblood beneath the tree. 

 

 

I knew I had heard that in one of your podcasts, but I couldn't remember which one.

So, remember my idea about the "dawn dragon people" who were ancestors of the Daynes?  The ones who "ran away with dragons?"  The idea behind the "proto-Valyrian" race in the forums is that they originated in Westeros, then spread east.  It seems to me (gods, I need to start my own thread on this) that this is not the case and (as I stated previously) that they actually sought refuge in Westeros.  The breaking up of the comet symbolizes their disagreement.  They refused to cooperate on working with dark magic, so they "broke away" from their tribe(s).  And the broken comet doesn't just symbolize a broken people, but also a broken world: the Hammer of the Waters, which divided the world into east and west. 

 Aurane Waters, our "Hammer of the Waters" parallel, is likely helping people (the GC) cross from Essos to Westeros.  The Hammer of the Waters let people cross first, then "burnt the bridge behind them."  (I wouldn't be surprised if Aurane's dromonds end up being instrumental in keeping Aegon's enemies out.) A further echo of their disagreement is seen through Ned "stealing" Jon.  Ned "stole" Jon from Dorne and brought him to Winterfell.  When these "dawn dragon people" decided to run away, the world was still warm, like Dorne.  By the time they sought refuge in Westeros, the world had grown cold, like Winterfell where it even snows in summer.

Question : if the "dragon has three heads" then perhaps the comet broke up into thirds, one remaining white and blue, one turning red, ...and one turning green?  Perhaps the comet that struck the moon was the green one, and one reason that the fallen comet is called a sea dragon is because it was "(sea-)green."

 

 

[LmL]

1 hour ago, Isobel Harper said:

I knew I had heard that in one of your podcasts, but I couldn't remember which one.

So, remember my idea about the "dawn dragon people" who were ancestors of the Daynes?  The ones who "ran away with dragons?"  The idea behind the "proto-Valyrian" race in the forums is that they originated in Westeros, then spread east.  It seems to me (gods, I need to start my own thread on this) that this is not the case and (as I stated previously) that they actually sought refuge in Westeros.  The breaking up of the comet symbolizes their disagreement.  They refused to cooperate on working with dark magic, so they "broke away" from their tribe(s).  And the broken comet doesn't just symbolize a broken people, but also a broken world: the Hammer of the Waters, which divided the world into east and west. 

 Aurane Waters, our "Hammer of the Waters" parallel, is likely helping people (the GC) cross from Essos to Westeros.  The Hammer of the Waters let people cross first, then "burnt the bridge behind them."  (I wouldn't be surprised if Aurane's dromonds end up being instrumental in keeping Aegon's enemies out.) A further echo of their disagreement is seen through Ned "stealing" Jon.  Ned "stole" Jon from Dorne and brought him to Winterfell.  When these "dawn dragon people" decided to run away, the world was still warm, like Dorne.  By the time they sought refuge in Westeros, the world had grown cold, like Winterfell where it even snows in summer.

Question : if the "dragon has three heads" then perhaps the comet broke up into thirds, one remaining white and blue, one turning red, ...and one turning green?  Perhaps the comet that struck the moon was the green one, and one reason that the fallen comet is called a sea dragon is because it was "(sea-)green."

 

 

Actually no, my main theory is that they originated from a shy and the East and actually came to Westeros. I think some people here on the forums have changed it around to say that is or a high and the folklore from the East is derivative of westerosi folklore, but my original idea going back to early last year is that these are the dawn Age Dragon Lords fromy Asshai.  I think it seems like they might have come here first to create a trading Outpost, something like the Phoenicians did. That fused stone fortress off the shore of Oldtown really fits the model of the Phoenician fortress city like Tyre. It's likely they came to Westeros to trade with the children of the forest and to get access to Magic, as TWOIAF suggests. This would actually make it a likely place 4 amethyst Empress loyalists to flee, because they would have already established a colony here. It would actually be a bit like Britain and the United States colonies, with the rebels of the colonies breaking away from the mainland. At some point our dark Lord Azor Ahai would have brought his forces to Westeros, and I believe it would have been the colonist who split off and now identify with the Westerosi who would have resisted him at Battle Isle. The Hightowers and Daynes are likely to be amongst those descended from the loyalists I would think. Remember, they have those Legends at Battle all about the very first hightower's fighting off dragons that were roosting on the fused Stone Fortress. That could easily be a memory of the hightowers as Westeros loyalists, fighting off the dragon people at Battle Isle.

I've also proposed that perhaps Azor Ahai was actually defeated and humbled at Battle Isle, and only after this was his sword taken by The Last Hero to go use up north against the others. Or it could be that he was humbled and then turned towards the forces of good, or made to go and be the last hero to pay for his crimes. I believe the last hero was a sacrifice, so this could work. I think the Tower of joy is an important parallel events here - the king of winter coming south to fight against the sword of the morning. In this case, the sword of the morning might stand for the evil Invaders and our boy dead for the westerosi natives. Ned goes south, defeats of purple eyed person with a magic sword, and then returns home to Winterfell with lightbringer (Jon).  the original sword of ice, of house Stark, is left down south, and the sword of black ice goes north (AA's black sword, which Jon plays the role of, since he's a black Snow and that's almost like black ice).

[cgrav]

Random question about Lightbringer:

We've been talking about LB as a comet on the literal level, and I'm wondering if it could also be a constellation. Namely, the straight line from Orion's Belt to Sirius, which align with the sunrise on the Winter solstice. Visually, this would look like a sword pointing to the sunrise the day winter is symbolically slain and the sun rises higher for the first time since summer.

so my question: are there stars missing from this alignment in Planetos's sky? I think the Last Hero going north with his dog is a reference to Orion and Canis Major "going north" to slay winter (Sirius is red, like Ghost's eyes, among others). Did Sirius somehow come loose and become the red comet? Is Bran's role to "warg" the comet and get it to create the celestial alignment that brings the light of spring? Mel's talk of "two kings to wake the dragon" refers to the same celestial alignment, which further makes me question if Orion's Belt is not aligned as it should be (the son of the remaining king being TPTWP, effectively a third king).

I had a flood of thoughts when I realized that the AA story of LB'd forging takes 180 days, which is the time between  the solstices. In a world of 5 year seasons, the idea of 6 month cycles that align with the constellations would seem pretty mythical.

GRRM has said that the explanation for the seasons is magical, rather than physical, otherwise this line of reasoning would be total nonsense.

These are just kinda my random thoughts after catching up on the discussion and looking into some astronomy stuff in real life religion. Curious if they jive with your guys' more developed ideas of how astronomy interacts with/proscribes the plot.

Edit: I'd also like to offer a motive for destroying the moon in the first place: the winter solstice sun rose into a red eclipse (this actually happened in years 531 and 2010). To a sun worship cult, that would look as if the moon was usurping the sun and refusing to be sacrificed on the day of its scheduled death... just as the horned lord Robert refused to die at the Trident and usurped a solar symbol. 

[LmL]

New see / sea discovery: webbed fingers.

Think about it.

The people on the three sisters with the mark have webbed hands and feet. That's because they are from under the see!  The weirwood root that grows "from the tunnel wall, with tendrils hanging from it and spiderwebs between its fingers." Its not only root webbing - the weirwoodnet should weirwideweb - but it's also a weaving metaphor, with fingers and silk (webbing = silk).

So, people from the see have webbing between their fingers, ya know? 

And then there is this...

Behind them lightning stabbed down from the sky, blinding purple bolts that danced across the sea see in webs of light. Thunder followed. “The time has come to hide.” Tyrion took Penny by the arm and led her belowdecks. (ADWD, Tyrion)

 

[ravenous reader]

1 hour ago, LmL said:

New see / sea discovery: webbed fingers.

Think about it.

The people on the three sisters with the mark have webbed hands and feet. That's because they are from under the see!  The weirwood root that grows "from the tunnel wall, with tendrils hanging from it and spiderwebs between its fingers." Its not only root webbing - the weirwoodnet should weirwideweb - but it's also a weaving metaphor, with fingers and silk (webbing = silk).

Yeah, 'weirnet' as world wide 'web'...Webs, nets, garths, traps, etc.

It's interesting in this context that the 8-legged Sleipnir horse of Odin via which he navigates and negotiates the 'web of Urdr' (the web woven by the fates, the Norns resident in the Well of Urdr at the base of the Yggdrasil tree...basically the fabric or web of space-time destiny) is also configured as a kind of spider in his versatility ferrying the rider to the Underworld and back.  Moreover, I also read that some believe the 8-leggedness to symbolically stem from the practice of a bier (i.e. coffin) carried by 4 pall bearers, for a total of 8 legs like a spider, bearing the deceased on his final journey.  Psychopomps, therefore, can be understood as spiders!

Raventree hall:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jaime I

Raventree Hall was old. Moss grew thick between its ancient stones, spiderwebbing up its walls like the veins in a crone's legs

Bran in the godswood:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran V

"Let's hunt down the hunters, then," Robb said. Side by side, they urged their mounts off the kingsroad and struck out into the wolfswood. Theon dropped back and followed well behind them, talking and joking with the guardsmen.

It was nice under the trees. Bran kept Dancer to a walk, holding the reins lightly and looking all around him as they went. He knew this wood, but he had been so long confined to Winterfell that he felt as though he were seeing it for the first time. The smells filled his nostrils; the sharp fresh tang of pine needles, the earthy odor of wet rotting leaves, the hints of animal musk and distant cooking fires. He caught a glimpse of a black squirrel moving through the snow-covered branches of an oak, and paused to study the silvery web of an empress spider.

Illyrio:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion I

"Slaver's Bay is a long way from Pentos." Tyrion speared a goose liver on the point of his knife. No man is as cursed as the kinslayer, he mused, but I could learn to like this hell.

"This is so," Illyrio agreed, "but the world is one great web, and a man dare not touch a single strand lest all the others tremble. More wine?" Illyrio popped a pepper into his mouth. "No, something better." He clapped his hands together.

At the sound a serving man entered with a covered dish. He placed it in front of Tyrion, and Illyrio leaned across the table to remove the lid. "Mushrooms," the

magister announced, as the smell wafted up. "Kissed with garlic and bathed in butter. I am told the taste is exquisite. Have one, my friend. Have two."

Plucking the strings of a web is similar to plucking the strings of a puppet or stringed musical instrument, like a harp.  Have you read my thoughts on 'plucking'?

1 hour ago, LmL said:

So, people from the see have webbing between their fingers, ya know? 

And then there is this...

Behind them lightning stabbed down from the sky, blinding purple bolts that danced across the sea see in webs of light. Thunder followed. “The time has come to hide.” Tyrion took Penny by the arm and led her belowdecks. (ADWD, Tyrion)

And then there are the 'ice spiders' of the 'Others'.  How do you understand them?

 

[Isobel Harper]

1 hour ago, LmL said:

New see / sea discovery: webbed fingers.

Think about it.

The people on the three sisters with the mark have webbed hands and feet. That's because they are from under the see!  The weirwood root that grows "from the tunnel wall, with tendrils hanging from it and spiderwebs between its fingers." Its not only root webbing - the weirwoodnet should weirwideweb - but it's also a weaving metaphor, with fingers and silk (webbing = silk).

So, people from the see have webbing between their fingers, ya know? 

And then there is this...

Behind them lightning stabbed down from the sky, blinding purple bolts that danced across the sea see in webs of light. Thunder followed. “The time has come to hide.” Tyrion took Penny by the arm and led her belowdecks. (ADWD, Tyrion)

 

If only Myranda could get over that webbed feet thing, she'd realize she was marrying the Webbed Prince who was Promised. 

[LmL]

29 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Yeah, 'weirnet' as world wide 'web'...Webs, nets, garths, traps, etc.

It's interesting in this context that the 8-legged Sleipnir horse of Odin via which he navigates and negotiates the 'web of Urdr' (the web woven by the fates, the Norns resident in the Well of Urdr at the base of the Yggdrasil tree...basically the fabric or web of space-time destiny) is also configured as a kind of spider in his versatility ferrying the rider to the Underworld and back.  Moreover, I also read that some believe the 8-leggedness to symbolically stem from the practice of a bier (i.e. coffin) carried by 4 pall bearers, for a total of 8 legs like a spider, bearing the deceased on his final journey.  Psychopomps, therefore, can be understood as spiders!

That's cool, I read somewhere that it was because they were imaging a horse i motion, a thundering horse, and drawing it with eight legs is one way of animating a horse in motion. I like the pallbearers explanation, that makes sense.  Spiders make for natural psychopomps because the web is a natural fit for destiny, time, fate, etc, and since Sleipnir is an eight legged horse who navigates the web... you have to think of spiders. Sure. 

29 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

Raventree hall:

Bran in the godswood:

Illyrio:

Plucking the strings of a web is similar to plucking the strings of a puppet or stringed musical instrument, like a harp.  Have you read my thoughts on 'plucking'?

No, but I agree with what you're saying,, the singers also make music by plucking strings.  

29 minutes ago, ravenous reader said:

And then there are the 'ice spiders' of the 'Others'.  How do you understand them?

 

Well, as a clue that the Others are former greenseers.  They ride the spiders like Odin rides Sleipnir. That's why they ride them, and don't just call them to attack. They are riding a frozen version of Sleipnir. 

[LmL]

29 minutes ago, Isobel Harper said:

If only Myranda could get over that webbed feet thing, she'd realize she was marrying the Webbed Prince who was Promised. 

That can be hazardous tho...

[LmL]

@ravenous reader ok, so check this out. The sea dragon is a meteor that lands in the sea and then somehow rises from the sea. Think of that scene on Pyke - the sea dragon is a longsword thrusting into the bowels of the sea. Azor Ahai is said by Mel to be reborn in the sea.  

In other words, a dragon landed in the see. 

Thus, the lightning bolt setting the tree on fire and the dragon landing in the see are saying the same thing - dragon people entered weirwoodnet. It may not be that the trees grew up over the meteor - though I want to talk about that possibility also - it may be that we are talking only about Azor Ahai entering the see, being reborn in the see. 

Now as to the other idea, what do you think might be at the bottom of the black pond in Winterfell's godswood, the only one which is cold and black where the others are all warm and brown? The black pond itself is symbolic of waves of night or black blood, and of course it eventually freezes over to become black ice.  Ned dips his black Ice in there, while bloody, which is a symbol of a dragon meteor landing in the black see, or landing in the see and turning it black. Remember that Blackwater rushes from the Gods Eye.  

[Bluetiger]

Good morning moaning all,

Quote

The godswood was an island of peace in the sea of chaos that Winterfell had become. Hodor made his way through the dense stands of oak and ironwood and sentinels, to the still pool beside the heart tree. He stopped under the gnarled limbs of the weirwood, humming. Bran reached up over his head and pulled himself out of his seat, drawing the dead weight of his legs up through the holes in the wicker basket. He hung for a moment, dangling, the dark red leaves brushing against his face, until Hodor lifted him and lowered him to the smooth stone beside the water. "I want to be by myself for a while," he said. "You go soak. Go to the pools."

"Hodor." Hodor stomped through the trees and vanished. Across the godswood, beneath the windows of the Guest House, an underground hot spring fed three small ponds. Steam rose from the water day and night, and the wall that loomed above was thick with moss. Hodor hated cold water, and would fight like a treed wildcat when threatened with soap, but he would happily immerse himself in the hottest pool and sit for hours, giving a loud burp to echo the spring whenever a bubble rose from the murky green depths to break upon the surface.

Summer lapped at the water and settled down at Bran's side. He rubbed the wolf under the jaw, and for a moment boy and beast both felt at peace. Bran had always liked the godswood, even before, but of late he found himself drawn to it more and more. Even the heart tree no longer scared him the way it used to. The deep red eyes carved into the pale trunk still watched him, yet somehow he took comfort from that now. The gods were looking over him, he told himself; the old gods, gods of the Starks and the First Men and the children of the forest, his father's gods. He felt safe in their sight, and the deep silence of the trees helped him think. Bran had been thinking a lot since his fall; thinking, and dreaming, and talking with the gods.

That pool near the heart tree is clearly different, others are fed by hot springs under the castle, but this one is cold, which suggests a different origin... they're not connected, so this one must have been created in some other way, but certainly not by humans as:

Quote

The gods of Winterfell kept a different sort of wood. It was a dark, primal place, three acres of old forest untouched for ten thousand years as the gloomy castle rose around it. It smelled of moist earth and decay. No redwoods grew here. This was a wood of stubborn sentinel trees armored in grey-green needles, of mighty oaks, of ironwoods as old as the realm itself. Here thick black trunks crowded close together while twisted branches wove a dense canopy overhead and misshapen roots wrestled beneath the soil. This was a place of deep silence and brooding shadows, and the gods who lived here had no names.

So, I won't be surprised if it turns out that there is some oily black stone immersed there...

[Bluetiger]

Let's go fully crackpot:

1. Winterfell's pool was created when bloodstone meteor fell there.

2. Impact triggered volcanic activity, which caused the existence of hot springs.

3. Pool's water is cold and black:

Quote

At the center of the grove an ancient weirwood brooded over a small pool where the waters were black and cold. "The heart tree," Ned called it. The weirwood's bark was white as bone, its leaves dark red, like a thousand bloodstained hands. A face had been carved in the trunk of the great tree, its features long and melancholy, the deep-cut eyes red with dried sap and strangely watchful. They were old, those eyes; older than Winterfell itself. They had seen Brandon the Builder set the first stone, if the tales were true; they had watched the castle's granite walls rise around them. It was said that the children of the forest had carved the faces in the trees during the dawn centuries before the coming of the First Men across the narrow sea.

That meteor is dangerous, as it 'poisons' the area around it, so weirwood was placed over the pool to contain its venom...

4. Because of geothermal activity, Winterfell was perfect place to settle during the Long Night.

5. Recognising weirwood's value, First Men left it untouched and built walls around that place, which later became the godswood.

This might be the reason why Pooles live in Winterfell... Jeyne's fall from castle walls in ADWD mirrors the moon meteor's impact.

Sigil of House Poole is 'A blue plate on white, with a grey tressure' - a nod to the ice moon.

There's another 'ice moon' house in The North - Harclays, a clan from the mountains... Their sigil is 'Three blue moons, waxing, full and waning, on a white bend, on blue'.

Guy named Barth the Brewer lives at Winterfell - another 'Garth' ?

One of Cregan Stark's son was named Barthogan, but they called him Barth Blacksword. Later he bacame Lord of Winterfell... Maybe this name is corrupted form of 'Garth'?

[LmL]

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

Let's go fully crackpot:

1. Winterfell's pool was created when bloodstone meteor fell there.

Could also be that it was brought here. The rolling hills of the WF land aren't consistent with an impact crater, unless it was all frozen ice before the meteor landed. That could work - the meteor brought warmth and created the Oasis of warmth, or triggered the heat to rise from the earth. 

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

2. Impact triggered volcanic activity, which caused the existence of hot springs.

3. Pool's water is cold and black:

That meteor is dangerous, as it 'poisons' the area around it, so weirwood was placed over the pool to contain its venom...

This idea is strongly suggested, we just have to figure out in what sense it is true.

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

4. Because of geothermal activity, Winterfell was perfect place to settle during the Long Night.

5. Recognising weirwood's value, First Men left it untouched and built walls around that place, which later became the godswood.

The last two are true no matter what I think 

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

This might be the reason why Pooles live in Winterfell... Jeyne's fall from castle walls in ADWD mirrors the moon meteor's impact.

Jeyne Pool is a great ice moon queen, and there are symbolic lines to support that besides her excellent sigil. Ramsay is a Bloodstone Emperor/ NK kind of guy, marrying the Corpse Queen at WF. 

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

Sigil of House Poole is 'A blue plate on white, with a grey tressure' - a nod to the ice moon.

There's another 'ice moon' house in The North - Harclays, a clan from the mountains... Their sigil is 'Three blue moons, waxing, full and waning, on a white bend, on blue'.

That's interesting, are any Harclays in any scenes in the books?

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

Guy named Barth the Brewer lives at Winterfell - another 'Garth' ?

Yep.

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

One of Cregan Stark's son was named Barthogan, but they called him Barth Blacksword. Later he bacame Lord of Winterfell... Maybe this name is corrupted form of 'Garth'?

Yep. That's our man, Garth with a blacksword. And because they are talking about the sword ice there, it justifies my Black Ice nickname for Ned's sword

[Bluetiger]

1 minute ago, LmL said:

That's interesting, are any Harclays in any scenes in the books?

Only few times:

Quote

"There's people," Bran told her. "The Umbers are mostly east of the kingsroad, but they graze their sheep in the high meadows in summer. There are Wulls west of the mountains along the Bay of Ice, Harclays back behind us in the hills, and Knotts and Liddles and Norreys and even some Flints up here in the high places." His father's mother's mother had been a Flint of the mountains. Old Nan once said that it was her blood in him that made Bran such a fool for climbing before his fall. She had died years and years and years before he was born, though, even before his father had been born.

 

Quote

He would too, Sam knew. Craster had nineteen wives, but none who'd dare interfere once he started up that ladder. No more than the black brothers had two nights past, when he was beating one of the younger girls. There had been mutterings, to be sure. "He's killing her," Garth of Greenaway had said, and Clubfoot Karl laughed and said, "If he don't want the little sweetmeat he could give her to me." Black Bernarr cursed in a low angry voice, and Alan of Rosby got up and went outside so he wouldn't have to hear. "His roof, his rule," the ranger Ronnel Harclay had reminded them. "Craster's a friend to the Watch."

 

Quote

So now all they had was Mormont's dagger and the one Sam had given Grenn, plus nineteen arrows and a tall hardwood spear with a black dragonglass head. The sentries passed the spear along from watch to watch, while Mormont had divided the arrows among his best bowmen. Muttering Bill, Garth Greyfeather, Ronnel Harclay, Sweet Donnel Hill, and Alan of Rosby had three apiece, and Ulmer had four. But even if they made every shaft tell, they'd soon be down to fire arrows like all the rest. They had loosed hundreds of fire arrows on the Fist, yet still the wights kept coming.

 

Quote

Wherever the raven went, Mormont soon followed. The Lord Commander emerged from beneath the trees, mounted on his garron between old Dywen and the fox-faced ranger Ronnel Harclay, who'd been raised to Thoren Smallwood's place. The spearmen at the gate shouted a challenge, and the Old Bear returned a gruff, "Who in seven hells do you think goes there? Did the Others take your eyes?" He rode between the gateposts, one bearing a ram's skull and the other the skull of a bear, then reined up, raised a fist, and whistled. The raven came flapping down at his call.

 

Quote

"My lord," Sam heard Ronnel Harclay say, "we have only twenty-two mounts, and I doubt half will reach the Wall."

"I know that," Mormont grumbled. "We must go all the same. Craster's made that plain." He glanced to the west, where a bank of dark clouds hid the sun. "The gods gave us a respite, but for how long?" Mormont swung down from the saddle, jolting his raven back into the air. He saw Sam then, and bellowed, "Tarly!"

 

Quote

Maester Aemon had sent a lot of birds . . . not to one king, but to four. Wildlings at the gate, the message ran. The realm in danger. Send all the help you can to Castle Black. Even as far as Oldtown and the Citadel the ravens flew, and to half a hundred mighty lords in their castles. The northern lords offered their best hope, so to them Aemon had sent two birds. To the Umbers and the Boltons, to Castle Cerwyn and Torrhen's Square, Karhold and Deepwood Motte, to Bear Island, Oldcastle, Widow's Watch, White Harbor, Barrowton, and the Rills, to the mountain fastnesses of the Liddles, the Burleys, the Norreys, the Harclays, and the Wulls, the black birds brought their plea. Wildlings at the gate. The north in danger. Come with all your strength.