Corvinus

Star Wars Rebels: How Does the Force Really Work? (spoilers for everything Star Wars)

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Posted (edited)

old thread is at 21 pages so continue here

 

Edited by Corvinus

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Darth Maul should be dead.  

(Just getting this one started over here)

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6 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Darth Maul should be dead.  

(Just getting this one started over here)

Whether the reason for bringing him back is dumb or not, the story arcs that featured him in the Clone Wars series were some of the best, imo. So like others have said, I came to accept it. He's been a solid presence in Rebels, too.

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Corvinus,

I think that's great.  I just wish they'd come up with a better explaination for why he's still breathing.

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Posted (edited)

You're beating a dead horse here Scot :) Darth Maul should be dead, so should Boba and Gandalf and Lady Stoneheart. Sometimes writers make decisions which make you squint a bit and go, "Ehhhhh," but they roll with it and it's up to you if you buy it or not. But moaning about it isn't going to make it unhappen.

To be honest, I'm more concerned about the fact that the entire Rebel Alliance seems to know that they have 3 Jedi on their side, whilst later on welcoming Luke as some kind of Big Deal. Even if all three of them are dead (and they seem to think Ahsoka is dead already) by the end of Season 3, it's weird that no-one said to Luke, "Hey a new Jedi! We used to have a couple working for us a few months ago. Great guys."

Edited by Werthead

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12 minutes ago, Werthead said:

You're beating a dead horse here Scot :) Darth Maul should be dead, so should Boba and Gandalf and Lady Stoneheart. Sometimes writers make decisions which make you squint a bit and go, "Ehhhhh," but they roll with it and it's up to you if you buy it or not. But moaning about it isn't going to make it unhappen.

To be honest, I'm more concerned about the fact that the entire Rebel Alliance seems to know that they have 3 Jedi on their side, whilst later on welcoming Luke as some kind of Big Deal. Even if all three of them are dead (and they seem to think Ahsoka is dead already) by the end of Season 3, it's weird that no-one said to Luke, "Hey a new Jedi! We used to have a couple working for us a few months ago. Great guys."

But if the horse gets the Bobba Fett treatment, it could come back. :P

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I think there's more chance of Ser Scott admitting he prefers ebooks over paperbooks than admitting that an alien humanoid doesn't necessarily have all its essential organs spread over the upper and lower half of its body :)

You must also be a lot of fun at magic shows when they cut people in half with a saw :P

Next time Lucas should cover himself more carefully by cutting the humanoid in half along the vertical axis - that would be even trickier to explain in a creature that appears to be symmetrical along that axis.

 

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Posted (edited)

Continuing about that arsehole Maul:

I don't mind that he survived getting chopped in half. Of course it doesn't make sense, but what does make sense in Star Wars? And sure, there have been a lot of other more nonsense there, especially in the old canon (or The Ones episode in the clone wars).

The problem though, is that when you kill a character, you kill it. Star Wars is not Dragon Ball to bring back everyone, it shouldn't be.

The other problem (for me) is that it takes something from the legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi. He was the only Jedi who killed a Sith in a thousand years (before Anakin). He says to Senator Palpatine when he has to face Count Dooku 'Sith Lords are our specialty' because he actually killed a 'Sith Lord'. But after Maul returned it means 'Sith Lords are our specialty, we hang out with them all the time. I fought Maul 264 times, and Dooku 28 times, we are practically best friends'.

And more importantly, 'Darth' Maul is just boring. The Boba effect which makes fans - who are able to criticize everything on the movies (especially on the new ones) - is especially strong with him. For reasons not known to me, he became a fan favorite. He doesn't speak (yep, one line doesn't count), he doesn't do anything smart, and he gets chopped in half by a noob. And then, when he is finally given his backstory, it makes him less than a Sith (more in the Assaj Ventress league). But people still liked him. Liked him more than Count Dooku who actually can fight, has a quite complex character (disillusioned by the Jedi Order leaves them after his ex padawan Qui Gon is killed, only to join the dark side), fools everyone by making a Trojan horse in the form of the clones, and is actually played by Sir Christopher Lee. But fuck him, lets all go nuts about Maul, cause he looks cool. And dances in a stupid way.

It is the equivalent of having as favorite character in Lord of the Rings that Nazgul who got killed by Eowyn. Or loving Boba Fett. Or that nameless stormtrooper who beat Finn.

Edited by TheRevanchist

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Also, just saw the new trailer.

What on the flying fuck? I saw Thrawn a couple of times fighting there. It is totally pointless and there is no sense on that. The entire point of Thrawn is how a non force sensitive who is not even strong, can become a brilliant tactician and go against enemies who are stronger than him, have more ships, have fucking Jedis in their rank, and still win. He was the anti-Vader of Star Wars, the intellectual, the mastermind who doesn't even fight, cause that is beneath him.

But yep, lets put him make some acrobatics there. Why is that a good idea?

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

I think there's more chance of Ser Scott admitting he prefers ebooks over paperbooks than admitting that an alien humanoid doesn't necessarily have all its essential organs spread over the upper and lower half of its body :)

You must also be a lot of fun at magic shows when they cut people in half with a saw :P

Next time Lucas should cover himself more carefully by cutting the humanoid in half along the vertical axis - that would be even trickier to explain in a creature that appears to be symmetrical along that axis.

 

But then you get the cool half robot body after person bisected (Rob Roy style) has the Dark side of the force keeping them alive after they lose the left half of their body... what's not to like?

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2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

But if the horse gets the Bobba Fett treatment, it could come back. :P

That's trademarked by the by...

43 minutes ago, TheRevanchist said:

Also, just saw the new trailer.

What on the flying fuck? I saw Thrawn a couple of times fighting there. It is totally pointless and there is no sense on that. The entire point of Thrawn is how a non force sensitive who is not even strong, can become a brilliant tactician and go against enemies who are stronger than him, have more ships, have fucking Jedis in their rank, and still win. He was the anti-Vader of Star Wars, the intellectual, the mastermind who doesn't even fight, cause that is beneath him.

But yep, lets put him make some acrobatics there. Why is that a good idea?

I thought Thrawn was exercising in that clip.

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 So, we now know that having the force lift an entire spacecraft from a swamp is perfectly reasonable, but it is totally unbelievable that it can clamp down on arteries and organs in enough time to get a patient to advanced robotic medical facilities... (The advanced robotic medical facilities are perfectly fine though.)

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9 minutes ago, Howdyphillip said:

 So, we now know that having the force lift an entire spacecraft from a swamp is perfectly reasonable, but it is totally unbelievable that it can clamp down on arteries and organs in enough time to get a patient to advanced robotic medical facilities... (The advanced robotic medical facilities are perfectly fine though.)

That addresses the bleeding but not the problem of arrested circulation and pulmonary embolisms.  Too much "force" handwaving makes it less believable.

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It's only a flesh wound :) 

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28 minutes ago, Astromech said:

It's only a flesh wound :) 

[Maul to Kenobi as he falls in half into the pit] "Alright... we'll... call... it... a... draaaaaawwwww!"

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Astromech said:

It's only a flesh wound :) 

He's had worse. 

Edited by A True Kaniggit

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Darth Sion in KotoR2 (which predates his resurrection in TCW) had virtually been disintegrated (small bits, much larger than atoms but not remotely whole) and was holding himself together with his hate. To beat him you to convince him to let go of his anger and choose to die (his life being constant incredible pain helps). Yes this is also no longer canon, but it was at the level that was informing this sort of choice before the canon change. If you refuse to accept the force can do this, then your problem is with the force not Darth Maul breaking your suspension of disbelief. And it's a rather unusual bridge too far given wth maul you can at least handwave alien biology helping.

The only limits on the force are the practitioner, if they use the telekinetic abilities of it to keep everything in their body still functioning, using the force for energy directly rather than even needing their blood to do anything, why on earth would that be a problem? It's doing what we've already seen it can do, just at a larger level. You'd simply have to have the willpower to keep that going until you can have everything medically fixed, then you could stop again after transfusions and your body would resume working even if you'd lost all of your blood.

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11 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

But then you get the cool half robot body after person bisected (Rob Roy style) has the Dark side of the force keeping them alive after they lose the left half of their body... what's not to like?

It's true, people always look better with a robot half like battle damaged terminator and Picard as a Borg.

11 hours ago, TheRevanchist said:

 For reasons not known to me, he became a fan favorite. He doesn't speak (yep, one line doesn't count),

I think that's a key reason why he was a fan favourite in Phantom Menace.

9 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That addresses the bleeding but not the problem of arrested circulation and pulmonary embolisms.  Too much "force" handwaving makes it less believable.

would you be more comfortable with Midochlorians? :leaving:

 

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10 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

That addresses the bleeding but not the problem of arrested circulation and pulmonary embolisms.  Too much "force" handwaving makes it less believable.

The Clone Wars (and subsequently Rebels) actually treats the Force as pretty versatile and multifaceted magic rather than just the vague mysticism you get in most of the films. There's a story arc where Obi Wan, Anakin and Ahsoka travel to a place where time runs at a different pace and where they interact with entities that seem to be incarnations of the different aspects of the Force. IIRC Ahsoka also dies and is resurrected there. Not a great arc but totally canon.

 

Then there's the Night Sisters who use some kind of ritualistic magic and take the "Force Ghost" concept a bit further as they can apparently possess living beings. They're also involved in Maul's return arc.

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