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Corvinus

Star Wars Rebels: How Does the Force Really Work? (spoilers for everything Star Wars)

214 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Yeah that episode just didn't click together for me. I think being constrained by it being a kids show is what really held it back, the way it was written *this* needed to be the incident that makes Saw split from the Alliance but that would have been much darker. I guess if he comes back into it, that could still happen later in the season but this didnt need to be a two parter.

Yeah it was definitely because of it being a kids show. If it was in one of the movies it would definitely worked out better. Well i still dint know if as good. Still though i think it could have made it so he split from the alliance then. It would have been pretty cool to see. Still i understand why they did it.

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46 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Yeah that episode just didn't click together for me. I think being constrained by it being a kids show is what really held it back, the way it was written *this* needed to be the incident that makes Saw split from the Alliance but that would have been much darker.

Having Saw realise he was wrong and letting the Geonosian go really didn't fit with where he needs to end up. I was half expecting Saw to offer to take him into the deep tunnels and shooting him once they were out of sight of the others. At the very least the others should have just kept him away from the egg once the arrival of the Empire ended the hostage situation instead of giving him a premature redemption arc. Hopefully Ezra will cut his legs off in a later episode.

I enjoyed this two-parter despite all that, though.

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it felt like a missed opportunity as I imagine they may have gotten some new viewers with Rogue One being out and Saw being in it (assuming they advertised this).

Highlight for me was Sabine complaining about the sand and how it gets everywhere :)

I was a bit confused about the timelines. Did Saw have robot legs when he first met Jyn? If he didn't it's probably fine. If he did then I'm a bit confused unless this episode is set just prior to him finding her?

Also the circle in a circle was meant to be the Death Star, right?

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1 minute ago, red snow said:

it felt like a missed opportunity as I imagine they may have gotten some new viewers with Rogue One being out and Saw being in it (assuming they advertised this).

Highlight for me was Sabine complaining about the sand and how it gets everywhere :)

I was a bit confused about the timelines. Did Saw have robot legs when he first met Jyn? If he didn't it's probably fine. If he did then I'm a bit confused unless this episode is set just prior to him finding her?

Also the circle in a circle was meant to be the Death Star, right?

They didn't show Saw's full body when he first met Jyn. But he didn't have his breathing apparatus, which the show gets right. Presumably all his injuries happen at the same time.

Also this is only about 3 years prior to Rogue One, and we know he abandons Jyn when she is 16, so this is probably after, though he is still part of the Alliance.

I personally liked his portrayal in these episodes - he is on the verge of losing it, but not quite there yet, he still has some humanity left; his injuries might be what cause him to completely lose it, which again, would be a parallel between him and Vader.

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That was a fairly run off the mill story, not something that really warranted 2 episodes . All it did was remind me how much cooler the Geonosis arc from The Clone Wars was.

I did like Saw in it though. And the comment about Anakin.

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2 hours ago, Corvinus said:

They didn't show Saw's full body when he first met Jyn. But he didn't have his breathing apparatus, which the show gets right. Presumably all his injuries happen at the same time.

Also this is only about 3 years prior to Rogue One, and we know he abandons Jyn when she is 16, so this is probably after, though he is still part of the Alliance.

I personally liked his portrayal in these episodes - he is on the verge of losing it, but not quite there yet, he still has some humanity left; his injuries might be what cause him to completely lose it, which again, would be a parallel between him and Vader.

Thanks for clearing that up - I had a feeling we didn't see his feet in Rogue One via the hatch but good to have it confirmed. I agree it makes sense that those additional injuries probably push him over the edge. We could see he was teetering on the edge here. It might be interesting if Rebels covers his injuries but I guess they have to be careful where to draw the line with an all ages show. I don't think they would (or should) have the morally grey rebels that were seen in rogue one.

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Maybe it could be Obi-Wan that winds up slicing his legs off and leaving him beside a source of poisonous gas to die? Given we've got OBW coming anyway and he seems to have a liking for that sort of thing :P

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7 hours ago, karaddin said:

Maybe it could be Obi-Wan that winds up slicing his legs off and leaving him beside a source of poisonous gas to die? Given we've got OBW coming anyway and he seems to have a liking for that sort of thing :P

Maybe Obi-Wan realises it's far less controversial to cut people's legs off rather than cut them in half so said character has a chance of coming back?

With his penchant for halving/legs off is Jabba the Hutt Obi-Wan's natural nemesis?

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:rofl: does this meet with your approval Scot? Are severed legs being cauterized by a lightsaber a sufficiently realistic outcome?

OBW is very respectful of Jabba when they meet in TCW, and he is living in Jabba's territory on Tatooine...we could be onto something here. He respects the one that he cannot beat.

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2 hours ago, karaddin said:

:rofl: does this meet with your approval Scot? Are severed legs being cauterized by a lightsaber a sufficiently realistic outcome?

OBW is very respectful of Jabba when they meet in TCW, and he is living in Jabba's territory on Tatooine...we could be onto something here. He respects the one that he cannot beat.

Not really.  The magic instantaneous cauterization doesn't make sense with the speed of light saber strikes.  Nevertheless losing a limb (even two), while incredibly traumatic, isn't nearly as traumatic as having your body bisected and losing any number of major organs.

That said, as I pointed out up thread, if it is established that Sith are pure materialists (who believe our physical meat bodies are all we are and have) while Jedi are dualists (who believe spirit animates the flesh and has an existence of its own) it would provide more context for why a Sith would be able to use the Force ("magic") to survive incredibly traumatic injuries.  The Sith use their power to preserve the only life they believe they have because for them when they die their is nothing left but non-existence while the Jedi wouldn't waste that energy on something they see as a mere shell.  They'd just pass on to the next plain of existence.  That dichotomy of philosophy would really go a long way in explaining why Maul would survive bisection.

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32 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

 

That said, as I pointed out up thread, if it is established that Sith are pure materialists (who believe our physical meat bodies are all we are and have) while Jedi are dualists (who believe spirit animates the flesh and has an existence of its own) it would provide more context for why a Sith would be able to use the Force ("magic") to survive incredibly traumatic injuries.  The Sith use their power to preserve the only life they believe they have because for them when they die their is nothing left but non-existence while the Jedi wouldn't waste that energy on something they see as a mere shell.  They'd just pass on to the next plain of existence.  That dichotomy of philosophy would really go a long way in explaining why Maul would survive bisection.

I think it would be a nice addition to the mythology too - even if it makes atheists appear evil :)

Did Yoda extend his life by using the force or was that just his race's natural longevity? I just remembered how, as a kid, I was convinced Yoda would come back as a butterfly because of that cocoon he died in. And the fact he looks like a humanoid caterpillar.

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22 minutes ago, red snow said:

I think it would be a nice addition to the mythology too - even if it makes atheists appear evil :)

Did Yoda extend his life by using the force or was that just his race's natural longevity? I just remembered how, as a kid, I was convinced Yoda would come back as a butterfly because of that cocoon he died in. And the fact he looks like a humanoid caterpillar.

Not true.  Being an Atheist doesn't mean the Atheist has to be a Materialist.  

I also don't think the Sith have to be "evil".  I think the Sith tend to have poor impulse control or they tend to place their personal desires above everyone else but that doesn't have to make someone "evil".

Wouldn't it be interesting to find an non-"evil" Sith?

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12 hours ago, karaddin said:

Maybe it could be Obi-Wan that winds up slicing his legs off and leaving him beside a source of poisonous gas to die? Given we've got OBW coming anyway and he seems to have a liking for that sort of thing :P

I couldn't imagine Saw giving Obi Wan the high ground. :)

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1 hour ago, red snow said:

I think it would be a nice addition to the mythology too - even if it makes atheists appear evil :)

Did Yoda extend his life by using the force or was that just his race's natural longevity? I just remembered how, as a kid, I was convinced Yoda would come back as a butterfly because of that cocoon he died in. And the fact he looks like a humanoid caterpillar.

I think that was his blanket.

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3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Not true.  Being an Atheist doesn't mean the Atheist has to be a Materialist.  

I also don't think the Sith have to be "evil".  I think the Sith tend to have poor impulse control or they tend to place their personal desires above everyone else but that doesn't have to make someone "evil".

Wouldn't it be interesting to find an non-"evil" Sith?

I guess you can also be materialist and believe in deities and the like too - just knowing you can't be part of that after death.

Totally agree on Sith not necessarily having to be evil although I think the set up of star wars tends to be all or nothing in the sense you can switch but can't be both. One of the things I find interesting about Kylo Ren is the possibility his strength is in balancing light and dark and that the mistake he is making is trying to purge the light urges. eg besides the gun wound he may not fare so well against Rey because he's just tipped his balance towards the dark side.

I like how the big Force alien in this season of Rebels is a bit nonplussed at the whole Sith/Jedi light/dark side thing. To him it's just the force. I guess that makes the character a bit like Tom Bombadil but without the singing.

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I think that was his blanket.

Let me have my childhood dreams :P

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Scot won't be satisfied until we conclusively show that Denethor was able to survive being set on fire and jumping off the tower by a combination of power of the dark side and a seething hatred of eminent domain. 

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2 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Scot won't be satisfied until we conclusively show that Denethor was able to survive being set on fire and jumping off the tower by a combination of power of the dark side and a seething hatred of eminent domain. 

You know me so well.

;)

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The Sith interest in extending their physical life vs Jedi acceptance of death and ultimately finding post physical life as part of the force is canon, not just theorised. It's at least outright mentioned in season 6 of TCW when Yoda starts having extreme doubts about the war and manages to connect to Qui-Gon and starts working towards his own death.

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I also wish they would put into canon the ability of the Sith to suck the life out of living beings to keep themselves alive, like Darth Bane does.

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Karaddin, Corvinus,

So does this mean I'm right about Sith being pure Materialists while Jedi are Dualists?

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