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Taboo: Tom Hardy's historical drama (BBC1/FX) [spoilers]


AncalagonTheBlack

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6 hours ago, mormont said:

 

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I don't agree that 'nothing changes' in the absence of Zilpha. A sub-plot can often be removed without affecting the main plot, but plot is not all there is (particularly in this series). Zilpha and the incestuous relationship are important for several reasons. One, it provides tension conflict in some of the earlier episodes. Two, it humanises James a bit for the viewer. Zilpha is something that James wants, and it's something we can all understand - a forbidden romantic desire. Without that, we're left solely with Nootka as a motivating force, and there his motivations are murkier, a mix of revenge on the EIC, his feelings about his father and mother and their relationship, and maybe personal ambition.

Also, it's always possible that James is right and she really is not gone. That'd be a twist, but one that might be foreshadowed. James has survived drowning, after all, and the supernatural imagery we've seen mostly revolves around the river (that, and ashes).

 

You could always trying quoting Hardy in one of his more memorable lines from the show?

Some crazy formatting issues means I'll just have to go with "this is a response to Mormont's comment"

I guess people's like/dislike will vary but she seemed to become a passenger throughout the last few episodes and James never seemed that bothered about her. He put less effort into keeping her safe than most of the crew he tried to gather in the final episode. I liked her more when she seemed to be in control of both James and her husband but that quickly disappered.

Given the OTT nature of the show it would be in keeping to have a comic-book survival of the character. It would be even better if she just staged it as some elaborate way of escaping everything. I guess we may never know

Odd about the backtracking on a second series. I'm pretty sure the BBC announcer even stated before episode 2 it was getting a second series although in hindsight that would be an odd thing for them to say. Pretty sure I read such claims shortly afeter the premier though. Oh well - it'll probably just wind up an Amazon/Netflix with FX production unless it wasn't popular stateside.

6 hours ago, mormont said:

 

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I don't agree that 'nothing changes' in the absence of Zilpha. A sub-plot can often be removed without affecting the main plot, but plot is not all there is (particularly in this series). Zilpha and the incestuous relationship are important for several reasons. One, it provides tension conflict in some of the earlier episodes. Two, it humanises James a bit for the viewer. Zilpha is something that James wants, and it's something we can all understand - a forbidden romantic desire. Without that, we're left solely with Nootka as a motivating force, and there his motivations are murkier, a mix of revenge on the EIC, his feelings about his father and mother and their relationship, and maybe personal ambition.

Also, it's always possible that James is right and she really is not gone. That'd be a twist, but one that might be foreshadowed. James has survived drowning, after all, and the supernatural imagery we've seen mostly revolves around the river (that, and ashes).

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

Does Spartacus qualify as grimcamp?

I had a theory that all Steven S. DeKnight shows are grimcamp, until I released Taboo is produced by Stephen Knight, who is not the same person at all.

you're not alone with the Knight/deKnight mix up. They must be two halves split by the atlantic.

I think Spartacus could qualify as grimcamp with possibly an emphasis on camp.

It was funny at work how everyone is quoting "I have a use for you". For all the show's failings it seems to have oddly caught on - at least at Bristol University. I still want to shout-sing "atticus!" when entering a room.

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10 minutes ago, red snow said:

you're not alone with the Knight/deKnight mix up. They must be two halves split by the atlantic.

I think Spartacus could qualify as grimcamp with possibly an emphasis on camp.

It was funny at work how everyone is quoting "I have a use for you". For all the show's failings it seems to have oddly caught on - at least at Bristol University. I still want to shout-sing "atticus!" when entering a room.

Someone used the line on me the other day. I wont go into the context but it made me giggle hysterically and more than the line really warranted

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9 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Someone used the line on me the other day. I wont go into the context but it made me giggle hysterically and more than the line really warranted

Hardy will be proud!

I'm hoping for a Delaney cat with a top hat to appear on the internet soon.

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I enjoyed the season and hope they give us a 2nd. The three characters I will miss are Winter, Zilpha and Stamper(whatzername??) the HOC's guy.

Anyways it wasnt a perfect season as many have pointed out problems, but it was original and kept me coming back. Setting out to sea is always interesting, i'm hoping to see the next round of adventure James gets himself into with his entourage.

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I still can't decide if I really like this show or not. I like the setting, like most of the actors and yet I have a meh feeling for the show itself.

I am going to lay myself out there as being stupid and ask some questions that I probably should know if I had paid more attention.

1st   Nootka, why is this little strip of land actually important? U.S. could simply take it if they wanted to, same with the King, as we all know the government can basically so what they want. His "legal" rights don't mean shit once the crown decrees or the U.S. declares imminent domain.

2nd   So this whole time Delany was smarter and better informed than everyone else involved? He played the EIC, Crown, and US against each other while seeing through all of their traps. Then he isn't even heading to the U.S., where his crew all is told he will take them?

3rd More of statement than question - Delany is very smart about tactical items and he had the soldiers all trapped in that tunnel and instead of setting up bombs in there and closing the entrance he lets them all come out and tries to shoot them? I would have preferred the show kept him as being very smart instead of losing that opportunity.

It's set do record on my dvr so I will give season 2 a shot but I really hope it improves.  

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Mhmmm.

I binge watched this in three days, and I can't name another show off the top of my head I've enjoyed more since Rome. The pacing didn't bother me at all (but then, I had the luxury of the only limitation being the time in my day), I really enjoyed the atmosphere, and I thought most of the cast was fantastic. I specifically enjoyed Tom Hardy swaggering in his coat and top hat, mumbling and "mhmm"'ing to everyone. He was a bit of a master manipulator, true, but I don't really mind that either as long as the character is broken in at least someway to offset it, and I think James Delaney qualifies in that regard. I dearly hope for more mhmm.

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20 minutes ago, Rooster said:

Mhmmm.

I binge watched this in three days, and I can't name another show off the top of my head I've enjoyed more since Rome. The pacing didn't bother me at all (but then, I had the luxury of the only limitation being the time in my day), I really enjoyed the atmosphere, and I thought most of the cast was fantastic. I specifically enjoyed Tom Hardy swaggering in his coat and top hat, mumbling and "mhmm"'ing to everyone. He was a bit of a master manipulator, true, but I don't really mind that either as long as the character is broken in at least someway to offset it, and I think James Delaney qualifies in that regard. I dearly hope for more mhmm.

I would have much preferred to binge this show - it didnt lend itself well to weekly viewing imo

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14 minutes ago, Triskan said:

So...did we get no explanation for what he did in Africa?  Like what the weird flashbacks in the water were about?  

Oh, that was just about the cool, kickass visual of Tom Hardy in body paint ;)

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It was too much style and not enough substance. Looked great, but fell flat storywise for me. I really was hoping they would explore more of the supernatural elements of the show. I would only tune in for a second season were it to receive glowing reviews.

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1 hour ago, Triskan said:

So...did we get no explanation for what he did in Africa?  Like what the weird flashbacks in the water were about?  

Just some cryptic lines about being taken in by an African after the ship sunk and doing unspeakable things (cannibalism is one rumour that seems pretty safe to say is true though). 

If this does get more seasons I expect we'll find out more about his time in Africa. or we'll just get another season with some vague supernatural flashbacks that taunt us with a promise of more next season

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On 2.3.2017. at 6:36 PM, dbunting said:

I still can't decide if I really like this show or not. I like the setting, like most of the actors and yet I have a meh feeling for the show itself.

I am going to lay myself out there as being stupid and ask some questions that I probably should know if I had paid more attention.

1st   Nootka, why is this little strip of land actually important? U.S. could simply take it if they wanted to, same with the King, as we all know the government can basically so what they want. His "legal" rights don't mean shit once the crown decrees or the U.S. declares imminent domain.

Uh, no?? Governments can't actually do whatever they want, and legality does matter. And as a matter of fact, we know from history that USA were not able to simply take Nootka, because they never did. 

As for why it was important, they only explained and stressed that some 150 times during these 8 episodes, going on and on about how crucial it is for trade, especially with China.

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I was lukewarm on the show. I liked much of it but was bored by some also. Plotting could have been better. 

One part I did like was the very end reveal where James says they are American. I took that to mean he was an American spy the whole time. Neatly explains much of his knowledge, like the Ghent meeting to end the war, his impeccable timing in showing up, his ability to know what many other actors were up to (he could have had more eyes and ears than EIC watching people). It also explains why he killed the double agent doctor, when such action was risky given need to escape. 

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4 hours ago, unJon said:

One part I did like was the very end reveal where James says they are American. I took that to mean he was an American spy the whole time. Neatly explains much of his knowledge, like the Ghent meeting to end the war, his impeccable timing in showing up, his ability to know what many other actors were up to (he could have had more eyes and ears than EIC watching people). It also explains why he killed the double agent doctor, when such action was risky given need to escape. 

I thought his line was about convenience, myself. He burned his bridges with the British, and he's going to the Americas, so why not call himself an American now? To say he was an American spy would imply that James Delaney has allegiance or interests to any cause other than his own. I would agree that his initial information is very likely American in origin, though. At least, assuming this Colonnade character in Ponta Delgada is an American.

As for killing Dunbarton, it would give him points with the Americans, remove a possible danger to himself in the long run (and short run, considering the blockade), and give him a chance to get rid of SSS (how it happened was a bit silly to me, to be honest).

On another topic, here are some quality mhmms.

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So is it certain Zilpha is dead? I kind of suspect she is, but like I was about Winter, I feel a little uncertain. They kept showing these confusing scenes of her in the river but you never see her dead in the water do you? I cant pretend to understand any of the supernatural type visions the show always flashed.

At this point im assuming she drowned in the river but feel what they showed was ambiguous enough that maybe she survived. Delaney was mumbling about not feeling her death or something confusing like that.

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4 hours ago, Rooster said:

I thought his line was about convenience, myself. He burned his bridges with the British, and he's going to the Americas, so why not call himself an American now? To say he was an American spy would imply that James Delaney has allegiance or interests to any cause other than his own. I would agree that his initial information is very likely American in origin, though. At least, assuming this Colonnade character in Ponta Delgada is an American.

As for killing Dunbarton, it would give him points with the Americans, remove a possible danger to himself in the long run (and short run, considering the blockade), and give him a chance to get rid of SSS (how it happened was a bit silly to me, to be honest).

On another topic, here are some quality mhmms.

Spying for the Americans was surely about convenience, but I don't think you can call it less than spying. I'm not suggesting he was formally in the American military. Nor am I suggesting that was his reason for going to London. Just that he gave the Americans information in exchange for "?" Stuff that James needed and wanted. A definite marriage of convenience. But that counts as spying.

 

Circumstantial evidence is compelling. 

1) He knew how to tap into the American spy network in London. 

2) He knew about the meeting in Ghent. 

3) He supplied gun powder to the Americans. 

4) He made his will to leave Nootka to the Americans. 

5) He killed the double agent doctor on his way out of London, when there is no real possibility that leaving him alive would hurt James at that point. 

6) Partially explains how James knew the moves his enemies (EIC and Crown) were making. 

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