Jump to content

Is Brandon Stark anything more than a poor man's Robert Baratheon?


PirateVergo

Recommended Posts

Let's just start with the fact that they have the exact same personality really.

Then let's go down their lifes.

1) Robert was the bigger jerk.

2) Robert was the better fighter.

3) Brandon went up against the targs and got himself killed, Robert smashed Rhaegar and ended the targs reign.

4) Robet was a better brother to Ned.

5) Robert got more bastards.

Imo Brandon is probably the most bland Stark ever, I mean I was already annoyed at Lyanna being so similar to Arya but Brandon ... this is just worse, he has no defining trait, nothing about Brandon make him unique, he's just a poor man's Robert Baratheon

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PirateVergo said:

1) Robert was the bigger jerk.

Neither Robert nor Brandon were jerks.

1 hour ago, PirateVergo said:

2) Robert was the better fighter.

We don't know what kind of fighter Brandon was, we know that he had talent but he had never the chance to fight in a war.

1 hour ago, PirateVergo said:

3) Brandon went up against the targs and got himself killed, Robert smashed Rhaegar and ended the targs reign.

Brandon hadn't the chance to fight with Rhaegar like Robert.

1 hour ago, PirateVergo said:

4) Robet was a better brother to Ned.

We don't know what kind of brother Brandon was.

1 hour ago, PirateVergo said:

5) Robert got more bastards.

We don't know how many bastards Brandon has.

1 hour ago, PirateVergo said:

Imo Brandon is probably the most bland Stark ever, I mean I was already annoyed at Lyanna being so similar to Arya but Brandon ... this is just worse, he has no defining trait, nothing about Brandon make him unique, he's just a poor man's Robert Baratheon

You are right the Wild wolf is bland.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Neither Robert nor Brandon were jerks.

We don't know what kind of fighter Brandon was, we know that he had talent but he had never the chance to fight in a war.

Brandon hadn't the chance to fight with Rhaegar like Robert.

We don't know what kind of brother Brandon was.

We don't know how many bastards Brandon has.

You are right the Wild wolf is bland.

Robert was merely thoughtless. Brandon however was a jerk. He should have laughed at Littlefinger's challenge instead of carving him up, and he should not have needed his fiancee to beg him not to kill the little dork. He had no right to go storming into the Red Keep shouting treason over his sister's alleged kidnapping either. It was Lord Rickard's place to go to the king and diplomatically arrange for some kind of solution to the problem. Brandon should have kept his mouth shut and his butt in the Riverlands. But I suppose it's possible that Lyannagate made for a convenient way to not marry Catelyn. If he wanted out of that deal he certainly succeeded.

Good enough and fierce enough that Catelyn felt it was necessary to beg him not to kill Littlefinger. Granted we don't Petyr's fighting skill level, but as he was fostered with the great Hoster Tully, and fostering included training in arms, one would think the boy had at least some skill. Blind devotion alone doesn't explain his challenge to Brandon. He must have thought he had at least a slim chance of winning.

I completely agree on Brandon as a brother. He was hotheaded, but given that he and Ned were fostered in totally different places they weren't together enough for even Ned to get a good sense of how good a brother he was or wasn't. He did ask Ashara to dance for Ned when Ned couldn't work up the courage. That's a decent thing to do (unless he then attacked or seduced the girl), and he was furious at the idea that Rhaegar had taken Lyanna. Come to think of it, wasn't it Brandon--rather than Robert--who had to be restrained from starting something at Harrenhal when Rhaegar gave the crown to Lyanna?

I don't think we know enough about Brandon to call him "bland."  Stupid maybe, but not necessarily bland. If he'd gotten page time of his own he might turn out to be interesting. Not likable maybe but interesting. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

He should have laughed at Littlefinger's challenge instead of carving him up,

That way he would had been treated as weak and not good enough to be a Great Lord.

21 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

He had no right to go storming into the Red Keep shouting treason over his sister's alleged kidnapping either.

We don't know if that happened. Do you really believe that Mad Aerys would had allowed any stranger to come near him holding a sword?

24 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

It was Lord Rickard's place to go to the king and diplomatically arrange for some kind of solution to the problem.

I think that this is silly, to put it kindly. From all they knew Lyanna was tortured and they had no time or reason why they should had relied to diplomacy. In any case we don't know what Rickard and Brandon had agreed. From all we know Rickard could had given Brandon the permission to do whatever he needed, life Robb attacking innocent people for Ned’s mistakes.

28 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Good enough and fierce enough that Catelyn felt it was necessary to beg him not to kill Littlefinger. Granted we don't Petyr's fighting skill level, but as he was fostered with the great Hoster Tully, and fostering included training in arms, one would think the boy had at least some skill. Blind devotion alone doesn't explain his challenge to Brandon. He must have thought he had at least a slim chance of winning.

I think that when it comes to Cat even LF is an idiot, we can only imagine how much of an idiot young innocent Petyr could had been.

31 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I don't think we know enough about Brandon to call him "bland."  Stupid maybe, but not necessarily bland. If he'd gotten page time of his own he might turn out to be interesting. Not likable maybe but interesting. 

I do agree that he wasn't bland but I don't see anything that makes him either stupid or unlikable. Hot heated maybe, but in a world where a war happened because two people couldn't understood that there were more important things in the world than their will to have sex a man who may acted rashly in order to save his sister wasn't stupid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

That way he would had been treated as weak and not good enough to be a Great Lord.

We don't know if that happened. Do you really believe that Mad Aerys would had allowed any stranger to come near him holding a sword?

I think that this is silly, to put it kindly. From all they knew Lyanna was tortured and they had no time or reason why they should had relied to diplomacy. In any case we don't know what Rickard and Brandon had agreed. From all we know Rickard could had given Brandon the permission to do whatever he needed, life Robb attacking innocent people for Ned’s mistakes.

I think that when it comes to Cat even LF is an idiot, we can only imagine how much of an idiot young innocent Petyr could had been.

I do agree that he wasn't bland but I don't see anything that makes him either stupid or unlikable. Hot heated maybe, but in a world where a war happened because two people couldn't understood that there were more important things in the world than their will to have sex a man who may acted rashly in order to save his sister wasn't stupid.

No, not really. Great Lords do not have the time to go around fighting every little pest who thinks he has a grievance. The ability to dismiss unworthy opponents is as necessary for a designation of strength as the ability to best others is.

I did not say he went into the king's presence, or that he was brandishing a sword. We have it from Jaime Lannister that Brandon rode in shouting for Rhaegar to "come out and die." That is treason. It's a threat against the crown prince.

I used the term "diplomatically" in order to emphasize that Rickard would have hopefully had sense enough to know he had to be careful in stating his case to the Mad King. What makes you think that Brandon even bothered consulting his father? Brandon went from the Riverlands straight to the capital. There is no mention of Rickard being present at Riverrun, or of Brandon making a detour to Winterfell. The very fact that Brandon went without his father rather indicates that Brandon didn't bother to include his father in this at all. Maybe he remembered to send a note home.

If there was time to ride all the way to King's Landing, then there was time to think things through and come up with a plan to deal with a completely insane king. Or at least a better approach than shouting treason. Maybe shouting for Lyanna. Or shouting that he demanded to speak with the king. There are at least half a dozen better ideas that should have occurred to someone in Brandon's group, but apparently either they weren't mentioned or were shot down by the Wild Wolf. That in itself isn't entirely surprising, as strong personalities tend to attract weaker ones that will not gainsay their leader.

Oh that's easy. Stupid was riding into the Red Keep shouting treason. Even with a sane king that still would have been the absolute dumbest thing any character in the series did. The only way that would not be stupid would be if it had worked. In fact, it would still be stupid, but people tend to gloss over the stupidity of things that work out well in the end. If you can explain to me how making a threat against Rhaegar was either intelligent or designed to save Lyanna, then I'll relent on this point. 

I did not say that he is currently unlikable. I said more information about him might reveal that he was.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

No, not really. Great Lords do not have the time to go around fighting every little pest who thinks he has a grievance. The ability to dismiss unworthy opponents is as necessary for a designation of strength as the ability to best others is.

I don’t think that this is the case. No matter how big Petyr was he challenged him and Cat’s honour was at stake. If not for his honour and prestige he had to fight for Cat’s.

10 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I did not say he went into the king's presence, or that he was brandishing a sword. We have it from Jaime Lannister that Brandon rode in shouting for Rhaegar to "come out and die." That is treason. It's a threat against the crown prince.

There are two ways for Jaime to know that. One, Brandon was allowed to ender Red Keep armed along with his entourage or he went to KL and screamed outside of the Walls and Jaime happened to be there to hear him anything else would had been gossip hence not necessarily true.

15 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I used the term "diplomatically" in order to emphasize that Rickard would have hopefully had sense enough to know he had to be careful in stating his case the the Mad King.

What makes you think that everything would work with the Mad King? In the end of the day who the heck would care about diplomacy when someone's life is in danger by a family known for its madness?

15 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

What makes you think that Brandon even bothered consulting his father? Brandon went from the Riverlands straight to the capital. There is no mention of Rickard being present at Riverrun, or of Brandon making a detour to Winterfell. The very fact that Brandon went without his father rather indicates that Brandon didn't bother to include his father in this at all. Maybe he remembered to send a note home.

Because Brandon seemed to be good at everything. Ned even seems to be bitter about how good Brandon was and how he knew what to do. That would mean that Rickard trusted him.

18 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

If there was time to ride all the way to King's Landing, then there was time to think things through and come up with a plan to deal with a completely insane king. Or at least a better approach than shouting treason. Maybe shouting for Lyanna. Or shouting that he demanded to speak with the king. There are at least half a dozen better ideas that should have occurred to someone in Brandon's group, but apparently either they weren't mentioned or were shot down by the Wild Wolf. That in itself isn't entirely surprising, as strong personalities tend to attract weaker ones that will not gainsay their leader.

Oh that's easy. Stupid was riding into the Red Keep shouting treason. Even with a sane king that still would have been the absolute dumbest thing any character in the series did. The only way that would not be stupid would be if it had worked. In fact, it would still be stupid, but people tend to gloss over the stupidity of things that work out well in the end. If you can explain to me how making a threat against Rhaegar was either intelligent or designed to save Lyanna, then I'll relent on this point. 

Again we have no idea what really happened when he arrived in KL. Everything we know are rumors especially when there was a man around the Kind who tried his best to make the Kind seeing enemies everywhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Little Petyr was an idiot. 

They met in the lower bailey of Riverrun. When Brandon saw that Petyr wore only helm and breastplate and mail, he took off most of his armor. Petyr had begged her for a favor he might wear, but she had turned him away. Her lord father promised her to Brandon Stark, and so it was to him that she gave her token, a pale blue handscarf she had embroidered with the leaping trout of Riverrun. As she pressed it into his hand, she pleaded with him. "He is only a foolish boy, but I have loved him like a brother. It would grieve me to see him die." And her betrothed looked at her with the cool grey eyes of a Stark and promised to spare the boy who loved her.

That fight was over almost as soon as it began. Brandon was a man grown, and he drove Littlefinger all the way across the bailey and down the water stair, raining steel on him with every step, until the boy was staggering and bleeding from a dozen wounds. "Yield!" he called, more than once, but Petyr would only shake his head and fight on, grimly. When the river was lapping at their ankles, Brandon finally ended it, with a brutal backhand cut that bit through Petyr's rings and leather into the soft flesh below the ribs, so deep that Catelyn was certain that the wound was mortal. He looked at her as he fell and murmured "Cat" as the bright blood came flowing out between his mailed fingers. She thought she had forgotten that. (AGOT, Catelyn VII)

How in godsname can Brandon blamed for this? Petyr did challenge Brandon, Brandon took off his armor, on Cat's request he did not kill him and asked Petyr several times to yield. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

How in godsname can Brandon blamed for this? Petyr did challenge Brandon, Brandon took off his armor, on Cat's request he did not kill him and asked Petyr several times to yield. 

I blame Brandon for not killing him!  Had he killed the snake, the Starks would've been spared much suffering -- and our story been a lot shorter :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I don’t think that this is the case. No matter how big Petyr was he challenged him and Cat’s honour was at stake. If not for his honour and prestige he had to fight for Cat’s.

 

There are two ways for Jaime to know that. One, Brandon was allowed to ender Red Keep armed along with his entourage or he went to KL and screamed outside of the Walls and Jaime happened to be there to hear him anything else would had been gossip hence not necessarily true.

What makes you think that everything would work with the Mad King? In the end of the day who the heck would care about diplomacy when someone's life is in danger by a family known for its madness?

Because Brandon seemed to be good at everything. Ned even seems to be bitter about how good Brandon was and how he knew what to do. That would mean that Rickard trusted him.

Again we have no idea what really happened when he arrived in KL. Everything we know are rumors especially when there was a man around the Kind who tried his best to make the Kind seeing enemies everywhere.

 

Cat's honor was not at stake. Petyr wanting to marry her is not an indication of her having done anything wrong.

Exactly. And we have no reason to think Jaime was not present for the event. Contrast Jaime's thoughts of what he knows happened to Barristan's of what he heard. It's pretty easy to see the difference between the two and realize that Jaime was present when Brandon rode showed up and started shouting treason.

I didn't say anything about it working. I said it was the smart thing to try.  They had no reason to think that Lyanna's life was in danger. Rhaegar's giving her the crown at Harrenhal was taken as a token of his having romantic interest in her. Whether he meant it that way or not, that's clearly what people like Brandon thought. The family is known for both madness and greatness and everyone except Robert Baratheon seems to assign Rhaegar to the greatness category. If Rhaegar had Lyanna there was no reason to fear for her life at his hands.

No, it doesn't mean that at all. There's a big difference between what Ned thinks of his brother more than a decade after his death and what their father would have thought while they were alive. Parents tend to have a very different perspective than younger siblings do. Also people have a tendency to gloss over the bad when remembering deceased loved ones and build them up into something they may or may not have been. Ned may be doing this when thinking of Brandon. But regardless of that, Ned's statements about Brandon knowing what to do and being good at everything are more indicative of Ned's feelings of insecurity and inferiority than of Brandon's being so impressive. 

No, we have Jaime's apparent eye-witness recollections, per what I said above.

I see you are one of the Varys-is-to-blame element. And it's actually kind of strange that you dismiss Jaime's information about what Brandon did as mere rumor while accepting the rumors about Varys. We have more information about Brandon's actions than we do about what Varys told Aerys. The only thing we know for sure Varys did was to tell the king not to open the gates to Tywin Lannister...something that turned out to be entirely good advice, but was ignored. If Aerys trusted Varys so implicitly, then why did he open the gates?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Tijgy said:

Little Petyr was an idiot. 

They met in the lower bailey of Riverrun. When Brandon saw that Petyr wore only helm and breastplate and mail, he took off most of his armor. Petyr had begged her for a favor he might wear, but she had turned him away. Her lord father promised her to Brandon Stark, and so it was to him that she gave her token, a pale blue handscarf she had embroidered with the leaping trout of Riverrun. As she pressed it into his hand, she pleaded with him. "He is only a foolish boy, but I have loved him like a brother. It would grieve me to see him die." And her betrothed looked at her with the cool grey eyes of a Stark and promised to spare the boy who loved her.

That fight was over almost as soon as it began. Brandon was a man grown, and he drove Littlefinger all the way across the bailey and down the water stair, raining steel on him with every step, until the boy was staggering and bleeding from a dozen wounds. "Yield!" he called, more than once, but Petyr would only shake his head and fight on, grimly. When the river was lapping at their ankles, Brandon finally ended it, with a brutal backhand cut that bit through Petyr's rings and leather into the soft flesh below the ribs, so deep that Catelyn was certain that the wound was mortal. He looked at her as he fell and murmured "Cat" as the bright blood came flowing out between his mailed fingers. She thought she had forgotten that. (AGOT, Catelyn VII)

How in godsname can Brandon blamed for this? Petyr did challenge Brandon, Brandon took off his armor, on Cat's request he did not kill him and asked Petyr several times to yield. 

I'm not blaming him for the fight, or saying he played dirty during it. I'm saying he didn't have to fight at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Cat's honor was not at stake. Petyr wanting to marry her is not an indication of her having done anything wrong.

I don't agree. We know what people believe when a man *compliments* a woman who isn't his wife from what happened with Rhaegar and Lyanna "all laughs died".  Petyr challenging Brandon for Cat's hand was a mortal insult. At the end of the day why he didn't had to fight? Why he had to be the coward one and not put Petyr to his place?

15 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Exactly. And we have no reason to think Jaime was not present for the event.

Because he hadn't said so. He hadn't said that he saw him doing it.

16 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Rhaegar's giving her the crown at Harrenhal was taken as a token of his having romantic interest in her.

That is what the rapists do. Rhaegar was a married man with two children who eloped with a teen, there was no reason why they should think that he was sane.

19 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

No, it doesn't mean that at all.[...]o impressive. 

Yet is the only thing we know so far.

19 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

No, we have Jaime's apparent eye-witness recollections, per what I said above.

As I said before I don't agree. Mostly because of the differences between Jaime's flashbacks and what he told about Brandon. In his flashbacks he describes what someone wears, where they stand and so on. In Brandon's case he just says that he screamed. I am not saying that Jaime was the one to create the rumour, I am saying that he doesn’t know the truth.

23 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

I see you are one of the Varys-is-to-blame element.

Well it's not like he wasn't already doing what I believe that he was doing.

24 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

If Aerys trusted Varys so implicitly, then why did he open the gates?

Because he was a lunatic and there was no logic explanation abou his actions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

I don't agree. We know what people believe when a man *compliments* a woman who isn't his wife from what happened with Rhaegar and Lyanna "all laughs died".  Petyr challenging Brandon for Cat's hand was a mortal insult. At the end of the day why he didn't had to fight? Why he had to be the coward one and not put Petyr to his place?

Because he hadn't said so. He hadn't said that he saw him doing it.

That is what the rapists do. Rhaegar was a married man with two children who eloped with a teen, there was no reason why they should think that he was sane.

Yet is the only thing we know so far.

As I said before I don't agree. Mostly because of the differences between Jaime's flashbacks and what he told about Brandon. In his flashbacks he describes what someone wears, where they stand and so on. In Brandon's case he just says that he screamed. I am not saying that Jaime was the one to create the rumour, I am saying that he doesn’t know the truth.

Well it's not like he wasn't already doing what I believe that he was doing.

Because he was a lunatic and there was no logic explanation abou his actions.

That was not the same thing. Rhaegar's giving the Queen of Love and Beauty crown to Lyanna was supposed to indicate a romantic interest that could not possibly result in marriage, because he was already married. It was an insult to his wife as well as Lyanna. Petyr's intentions on the other hand are honorable in that he wants to marry Catelyn. It says nothing about Catelyn herself. Not fighting some little twerp who has a crush on your girl is not cowardice, it's wisdom. The smart thing to do would be to ignore Littlefinger and tell Lord Hoster, who would then very likely have sent Petyr away immediately, and that would have been the end of it. 

In the case of Brandon screaming, he didn't necessarily have to see it, he might have heard it himself.

Rhaegar took off with a girl who was considered of marriageable age in their culture. Men throughout the ages have run off with other women, and younger women. It's selfish and stupid, but it's not a symptom of insanity. Lyanna's consent or lack of consent is unknowable, and Rhaegar's past behavior shows no signs of being violent or forcing anyone to do anything. Brandon's assumption that his sister must be in danger is just that--an assumption. And let's remember that we don't yet know the source of the information Brandon had...if it was from someone like Littlefinger, as has been suggested repeatedly on the boards, Brandon should have thought twice before taking all of it as true. It's a shame that no one ever taught Brandon to stop and think before acting. If he'd lived longer maybe he would have figured that out himself.

A fair point, but as I said above he doesn't have to see it to have heard it directly, which is still firsthand experience. He does not ever indicate that he was told that Brandon did this, or it was rumored that Brandon did that. He thinks clearly that this happened. 

You are assuming that Jaime doesn't know the truth.

His job, you mean? The one that he would be burned alive for not doing? Hard to blame the guy for that. You seem to be on the bandwagon of believing Varys was deliberately feeding the king info that would make his paranoia worse. We have no indication that Varys ever told him anything that wasn't true. The only people in the story who think that Varys is the culprit are also people who have no firsthand knowledge of what the Spider told the king. Sadly, neither do we, but we can at least see the possibility of other options.

Good point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Petyr's intentions on the other hand are honorable in that he wants to marry Catelyn.

Petyr was practically a beggar and she was a daughter of a Great Lord, he was insulting both her and her family. 

3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Not fighting some little twerp who has a crush on your girl is not cowardice, it's wisdom.

In today world you would had been right, but in Westeros not fighting when challenged would had been cowardice.

3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The smart thing to do would be to ignore Littlefinger and tell Lord Hoster, who would then very likely have sent Petyr away immediately, and that would have been the end of it. 

Even in our word that is being coward. Someone has to take care of his own problems and not pass them to someone else.

3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

In the case of Brandon screaming, he didn't necessarily have to see it, he might have heard it himself.

So he happened to take a stroll and he happened to hear him and he never said that he heard him but just that Brandon said it? Because correct me if I am wrong Jaime never said that he heard Brandon shouting.

3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Rhaegar took off with a girl who was considered of marriageable age in their culture. Men throughout the ages have run off with other women, and younger women. It's selfish and stupid, but it's not a symptom of insanity. Lyanna's consent or lack of consent is unknowable, and Rhaegar's past behavior shows no signs of being violent or forcing anyone to do anything. Brandon's assumption that his sister must be in danger is just that--an assumption. And let's remember that we don't yet know the source of the information Brandon had...if it was from someone like Littlefinger, as has been suggested repeatedly on the boards, Brandon should have thought twice before taking all of it as true. It's a shame that no one ever taught Brandon to stop and think before acting. If he'd lived longer maybe he would have figured that out himself.

Rhaegar was a married man. That alone make his actions insane. He took the girl and hide like a coward instead of stay and support his actions. Hence there was no reason why people should give him the benefit of the doubt.

3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

You are assuming that Jaime doesn't know the truth.

Since he never said that he either saw or heard Brandon I don't know why I should believe him.

3 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

His job, you mean? The one that he would be burned alive for not doing? Hard to blame the guy for that. You seem to be on the bandwagon of believing Varys was deliberately feeding the king info that would make his paranoia worse. We have no indication that Varys ever told him anything that wasn't true. The only people in the story who think that Varys is the culprit are also people who have no firsthand knowledge of what the Spider told the king. Sadly, neither do we, but we can at least see the possibility of other options.

You could be right if Varys hadn't proved to have his own plan in ADWD. He didn't had to feed Aerys with rumors that Rhaella or anyone else was conspiring against him. Conspiring for his own plans were not his job, protecting the King was his job and since Westeros ended up at a war he wasn't doing his job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Brandon Stark was hotheaded but not a jerk.

Once LF challenged him, he felt the need to fight. If he had refused, I think the North would have been more hesitant to follow him. But he gave LF every out he could. LF was stubborn since he was in love with Cat. But what would have happened if he had refused to fight LF? You really think there wouldn't have been some rumor about him being a coward? I see word of that getting back to the North and someone like the 20-something year old Roose Bolton would have still been resigned to follow him when he became the head of House Stark? I don't. He was probably brought up to be tough and not allow too much weakness to show. Yes, part of it was probably Brandon's ego but I think most of it was a political move. Also, what would Hoster Tully think if Brandon had refused to fight LF? It could have marked him as a coward in Hoster's eyes making him rethink the marriage, especially if Lord Tully saw it as a slight against his eldest daughter.

I heard a theory about Lyanna's "kidnapping" I believe on Radio Westeros' podcast that made a lot of sense to me. If there was any sort of a fight before Lyanna was taken away, then the word may have reached Brandon that his sister was kidnapped after a fight with the Mad King's men. Brandon on multiple occasions is mentioned to be more wild and hotheaded then his brothers, and probably thought some of his northmen had also been killed. Think about who he had go with him to KL. According to the wikipedia page (I don't have my books with me to double check) Ethan Glover (his squire), Kyle Royce, Elbert Arryn, and Jeffory Mallister were all with Brandon when he went to KL. That means he convinced people to come with him; he convinced Vale men to come with him. None of these men owed him anything but his squire, the only North man. There had to be some evidence that there was a rush.

I'm not saying Brandon was a wise man or anything, but I am saying that by the customs of the North and Westeros, there is evidence that he didn't just decided to do things because he felt like it or he was a jerk. There were good or decent motivations behind thing. He was just too hotheaded to think things though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Neither Robert nor Brandon were jerks.

Robert was cool with killing infants. He was also cool with cheating on his wife constantly. Oh yeah, and he basically raped Cersei throughout their marriage. And oh yeah, called her by his previous lover's name on the night of their marriage. I would go ahead and say he qualifies as a jerk.

21 hours ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

Ned is just a poor man's Stannis.

Stannis is a poor man's Eddard Stark (you seem to have that confused^^)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

56 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Robert was cool with killing infants.

Which were the children that Robert killed?

56 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

He was also cool with cheating on his wife constantly.

He cheated on a woman who when he had tried to make the marriage work she never did the same. What he supposed to do being celibate for Cersei’s sake?

57 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Oh yeah, and he basically raped Cersei throughout their marriage. A

Cersei is the only one who has said it and even she has already has told that this wasn’t the case.

58 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

And oh yeah, called her by his previous lover's name on the night of their marriage.

You mean the marriage with the woman who f@@ed her brother the morning before the wedding?

58 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

I would go ahead and say he qualifies as a jerk.

I still don't see it. Even Barri the Biased said that Robert was a good man.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 1/9/2017 at 7:49 PM, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Which were the children that Robert killed?

 

He cheated on a woman who when he had tried to make the marriage work she never did the same. What he supposed to do being celibate for Cersei’s sake?

Cersei is the only one who has said it and even she has already has told that this wasn’t the case.

 

You mean the marriage with the woman who f@@ed her brother the morning before the wedding?

 

I still don't see it. Even Barri the Biased said that Robert was a good man.

 I forgot one. He went to war and cost countless lives over a woman who turned him down. Also I dsagree with all your points, but we will just have to agree to disagree, because they are opinions. Except the rape one. Cersei says it in POV. Why would she lie to herself?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...