Plot developments / expectations for The Winds of Winter

[Nevets]

41 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

I'm lost here. I can't remember which information Brienne can have about Arya other that whatever the BwB has told her

The Elder Brother told her at the Quiet Isle that Arya was with Sandor just before he died.

[The hairy bear]

Thanks Nevets, I had forgotten that.

[Robert Baratheon's hammer]

I think if George is as descriptive as with A Dance then I think this may take more than two books to finish the series.

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't George RR Martin stated that it would be the longest book yet in the region of 1500 pages. 

Consequently this means we may have over 80 chapter which would give George plenty of time/space to cover a substantial part of the story.

For the sake of speculation I'm going to imagine there are 85 chapters including the prologue and epilogue.

I think the battle of ice will feature Theo, Asha and Davos. Davos will arive from skagos with an army and Rickon. The Freys will be massacred but Ramsey will be captured. Theo/Asha will die or both which may leave Davos as the main POV in that area. I think there may be two battles going on outside and inside winterfell walls. Roose may flee. The battles should take 5/6 chapters. 

The battle of fire will Feature Tyrion, Barristan and Vic. Barristan or Vic will die (maybe both). We Already have 4 chapters on this and I expect another 4 bringing the total to 8 For this battle. The dragons are likely to play a key roll, one will be capture or killed. Both sides will suffer heavy causalities. Daario is the joker of this situation as many speculate he is Euron and will reveal himself in this battle. I'm not sure. I think Mereen will be destroyed by the war and the plague. Tyrion will not stay there and will spend most of the book on the search for Danny and probably captured at some point too. Penny will die.

The wall will feature Mel and Snow. I think the aftermath of Jon's assassination will lead to the Wildlings and the queens men to take out the watch. Jons killers will be burned. We will get 2 Snow chapters and 2 Mel chapters Where shireen will also be burned in order to resurrect Jon. Once Jon is resurrected we will get more chapters on his dealings with the others. Not sure how Stannis will react to all this and doesn't he have sell-swords on the way?

Dothraki stuff featuring Danny. I think like the show she'll somehow gain the Dothraki support and I'm not sure if she'll even go them back to mereen or go to Quarth. I have a feeling they might end up in Pentos where Illyrio may meet his demise. She may finally meet Tyrion. Don't think it will go as smoothly as in the show. Euron May come into play but he's very unpredictable. ''To go forward you must go back'' leads me to Pentos. But I am very likely to be wrong.

Bran. Well this needs some chapters to explain what the hell is going on.

Arya. She'll leave bravos on bad terms with the Faceless men and I think she will be assassinated near the end of the book. She may live on through her wolf.

Kingslanding featuring Cerse, Connington, Hootah and Adrianne. I think the Targaryen loyalist will rise up against the Tyrells who have a big army but are stretched at the minute. Aegon and Adrianne will pledge to marry. As a result I think Doran will get his Dornish forces to attack the Tyrells. They will yield as they do. During this Kingslanding will be experiencing riots between the faith militant and the golden cloaks. I think Cersei and Tommen will either flee to Casterly Rock or be executed.George has said that he we will be visiting the rock in the remaining books. Aegon will be king by the end. Jon will die. I expect a major twist.

Oldtown featuring Sam and Aeron? If Euron is in fact where he says he is then we are in for a lot at Oldtown. Aeron will die as Sam is too important to die yet. Sam will spend a lot of time dealing with ''Pate''. His horn is likely to be very important considering it's on the front-cover. Will he or someone else blow it. Are the faceless men and Euron working together. Do the faceless men have anything to do with the others. We may find some of this out. The Hightowers seem to also have something important.

The Vale/Riverlands featuring Sansa Jamie And Brienne. I expect Sansa will turn on Littlefinger causing his eventual downfall. Sansa may have lots of power by the end of the book. Her story will be linked with Jamie's and Brienne. Jamie will do something heroic and die while Brienne like in the show will become Sansa's protector which could be bad news for Sansa. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Brienne died though.

Epilogue may feature the others.

Chapters by Character/Area

Davos-5 Asha-2 Theo-1 The Wall-10 Tyrion-8 Baristan-2 Vic-3 Danny-10 Cersei-4 Connington-3 Adrianne-4 Arya-6 Sam-6 Aeron-2 Hootah-2 Sansa-5 Brienne-3 Jamie-2 Bran-5. 

I'm probably 90 percent wrong as George is not predictable and likes to throw in a twist ot two.

 

 

[PCK]

I think regime change is coming on the Iron Throne. 

 

The things I'm most interested in:

1. Davos going to find Rickon.

2. Cersei & K.L. after Kevan's death and her trial.

3. Stannis vs. the Boltons. How will this one end?

4. Getting more interested in Sansa and her stint in the Vale. So much potential here.

5. Where Jaime's story goes next.

 

Dorne, The Wall, and Euron (that's one crazy dude right there) are honorable mentions. I think this will be a really good book, if it ever gets finished. A lot has been setup in Feast & Dance.

[Colonel Green]

On 2/14/2017 at 3:00 PM, Robert Baratheon's hammer said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't George RR Martin stated that it would be the longest book yet in the region of 1500 pages.

1500 manuscript pages, which is about the same length as ADWD and ASOS.

[Robert Baratheon's hammer]

7 hours ago, Colonel Green said:

1500 manuscript pages, which is about the same length as ADWD and ASOS.

Well then, it may take over 3 books to finish then.

The Povs are less spread out which may help cover more ground quickly but there is so much of the story to cover,

There were 73 chapters in ADWD.

[bent branch]

It is far from certain it will take more than three books to finish the story. For instance, many people are interpreting that Dany and Tyrion don't meet until the end of TWOW because of some statements that GRRM has made. However, it is possible that the Essos storylines go something like this:

Dany 1:  At Vaes Dothrak Dany gathers all the Khalasars (sp?).

Someone else's POV (Tyrion, Vic, Barristan): Dany returns to Meereen with the Dothraki.

Dany 2:  Dany meets with all the pertinent parties in Meereen. It is decided that they shall all now head to Westeros. Dany and the Dothraki will go by land. This is an eminently practical solution because if you put the Khalasars on ships at Meereen, they will get off at the next port of call, dragons or no. All parties will head toward Pentos, where Illyrio's ships will be available to carry the Khalasars over the Narrow Sea. Thus the Dothraki only need to take one trip across the poison water.

The rest of Dany's chapters, except tor the last detail her trip across Essos with the Dothraki. Dany's final chapter has her either arriving in Westeros or preparing to leave Pentos.

Tyrion's chapters will detail the trip of all those that take the ships to Pentos. Vic will definitely go by sea and Barristan will probably go with Dany. Anyway, the scenarios where Dany and Tyrion are puttering around Essos before meeting and leaving for Westeros are unnecessarily pessimistic.

[Robert Baratheon's hammer]

15 hours ago, bent branch said:

It is far from certain it will take more than three books to finish the story. For instance, many people are interpreting that Dany and Tyrion don't meet until the end of TWOW because of some statements that GRRM has made. However, it is possible that the Essos storylines go something like this:

Dany 1:  At Vaes Dothrak Dany gathers all the Khalasars (sp?).

Someone else's POV (Tyrion, Vic, Barristan): Dany returns to Meereen with the Dothraki.

Dany 2:  Dany meets with all the pertinent parties in Meereen. It is decided that they shall all now head to Westeros. Dany and the Dothraki will go by land. This is an eminently practical solution because if you put the Khalasars on ships at Meereen, they will get off at the next port of call, dragons or no. All parties will head toward Pentos, where Illyrio's ships will be available to carry the Khalasars over the Narrow Sea. Thus the Dothraki only need to take one trip across the poison water.

The rest of Dany's chapters, except tor the last detail her trip across Essos with the Dothraki. Dany's final chapter has her either arriving in Westeros or preparing to leave Pentos.

Tyrion's chapters will detail the trip of all those that take the ships to Pentos. Vic will definitely go by sea and Barristan will probably go with Dany. Anyway, the scenarios where Dany and Tyrion are puttering around Essos before meeting and leaving for Westeros are unnecessarily pessimistic.

Depends really if the dothraki go to Qarth or not. Pentos is not that close to Mereen. If it is to finish in 2 books then He's has to fit in Danny's invasion and war with the war for the dawn in to a Dream of Spring.

[The Fattest Leech]

15 hours ago, bent branch said:

It is far from certain it will take more than three books to finish the story. For instance, many people are interpreting that Dany and Tyrion don't meet until the end of TWOW because of some statements that GRRM has made. However, it is possible that the Essos storylines go something like this:

Dany 1:  At Vaes Dothrak Dany gathers all the Khalasars (sp?).

Someone else's POV (Tyrion, Vic, Barristan): Dany returns to Meereen with the Dothraki.

Dany 2:  Dany meets with all the pertinent parties in Meereen. It is decided that they shall all now head to Westeros. Dany and the Dothraki will go by land. This is an eminently practical solution because if you put the Khalasars on ships at Meereen, they will get off at the next port of call, dragons or no. All parties will head toward Pentos, where Illyrio's ships will be available to carry the Khalasars over the Narrow Sea. Thus the Dothraki only need to take one trip across the poison water.

The rest of Dany's chapters, except tor the last detail her trip across Essos with the Dothraki. Dany's final chapter has her either arriving in Westeros or preparing to leave Pentos.

Tyrion's chapters will detail the trip of all those that take the ships to Pentos. Vic will definitely go by sea and Barristan will probably go with Dany. Anyway, the scenarios where Dany and Tyrion are puttering around Essos before meeting and leaving for Westeros are unnecessarily pessimistic.

Gods I hope it happens quicker like you describe, or some version of it. I also wonder if her last chapter will be her preparing to leave for Westeros.

As far as what George has said about TWOW with Dany and Tyrion is in the spoiler below:

Spoiler

 

“Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart,” he says. “They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn’t entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home.”

http://ew.com/article/2014/06/26/george-r-r-martin-winds-winter-tease/

 

[Cas Stark]

18 hours ago, bent branch said:

It is far from certain it will take more than three books to finish the story. For instance, many people are interpreting that Dany and Tyrion don't meet until the end of TWOW because of some statements that GRRM has made. However, it is possible that the Essos storylines go something like this:

Dany 1:  At Vaes Dothrak Dany gathers all the Khalasars (sp?).

Someone else's POV (Tyrion, Vic, Barristan): Dany returns to Meereen with the Dothraki.

Dany 2:  Dany meets with all the pertinent parties in Meereen. It is decided that they shall all now head to Westeros. Dany and the Dothraki will go by land. This is an eminently practical solution because if you put the Khalasars on ships at Meereen, they will get off at the next port of call, dragons or no. All parties will head toward Pentos, where Illyrio's ships will be available to carry the Khalasars over the Narrow Sea. Thus the Dothraki only need to take one trip across the poison water.

The rest of Dany's chapters, except tor the last detail her trip across Essos with the Dothraki. Dany's final chapter has her either arriving in Westeros or preparing to leave Pentos.

Tyrion's chapters will detail the trip of all those that take the ships to Pentos. Vic will definitely go by sea and Barristan will probably go with Dany. Anyway, the scenarios where Dany and Tyrion are puttering around Essos before meeting and leaving for Westeros are unnecessarily pessimistic.

This is about how I expect it to play out...but that to me is basically nothing important happening to Dany for another book.  So, that leaves her landing in Westeros, the final conflict with the Others and resolution of everything else in Westeros for one book.  I don't see how that is possible if she doesn't sail for Westeros until the book ends.  

[bent branch]

1 hour ago, Robert Baratheon's hammer said:

Depends really if the dothraki go to Qarth or not. Pentos is not that close to Mereen. If it is to finish in 2 books then He's has to fit in Danny's invasion and war with the war for the dawn in to a Dream of Spring.

Ah, but we know exactly how far Pentos is from Vaes Dothrak. It is exactly four Dany chapters.

Seriously though, in AGOT Dany went from Pentos to Vaes Dothrak in only four chapters (or the middle of the book). By the end of Dany's fifth chapter Viserys was dead. This demonstrates that Dany's trip back across Essos does not require huge amounts of chapters. The only thing that GRRM has made absolutely required at this point is that Dany have at least one chapter in Vaes Dothrak before returning to Meereen. Other than that, GRRM could make Dany arrive in Pentos as early as her third chapter. I don't think that will happen, but there really isn't anything to stop GRRM from doing that.

There is some potential foreshadowing of future events that people are enjoying discussing and I'm not trying to ruin that fun. My only purpose was to point out that Dany's return trip to Westeros could begin early in TWOW (sooner if it had not been for the delayed battles). Although Quaith hinted to Dany that she should go to Asshai, GRRM has stated categorically that we would not see Asshai in this story. So we know not everything that was potential foreshadowing will happen. So the order of events in the story could be Dany begins journey to Westeros and then foreshadowed events occur. If it happens this way, there is no delay in the story flow and a third book will probably not be needed.

[bent branch]

4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Gods I hope it happens quicker like you describe, or some version of it. I also wonder if her last chapter will be her preparing to leave for Westeros.

As far as what George has said about TWOW with Dany and Tyrion is in the spoiler below:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

“Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart,” he says. “They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn’t entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home.”

http://ew.com/article/2014/06/26/george-r-r-martin-winds-winter-tease/

 

What I find most fascinating in that quote is that GRRM chose the word intersect instead of meet. One definition of intersect is to meet and cross at a point. To me this suggests that Dany and Tyrion will meet and then continue on different paths in the story, suggesting an earlier rather than later meeting. I see this as a good thing in relation to story flow.

In general, I have a tendency to see the story as further along than many people. If GRRM were more of an architect than a gardener, he might have organized the books as the tales of summer (AGOT/ACOK/ASOS), the tales of autumn (AFFC/ADWD), and the tales of winter (TWOW/ADOS). This is basically how I see the books. Because of this, I see AFFC/ADWD not as a segue from the main storyline, but an essential part of the central story. Although I often have difficulty expressing this POV, I do think (and hope) the story can be completed in two books.

[Philokles]

On 14/02/2017 at 7:00 PM, Robert Baratheon's hammer said:

Arya. She'll leave bravos on bad terms with the Faceless men and I think she will be assassinated near the end of the book. She may live on through her wolf.

This arc makes no sense for one of the main characters. Arya will live or die in the final book. Why bother with a further three books of character development if she is just to be killed off without doing anything else important? Especially when it would be an organisation fleshed out pretty much for the purposes of her character that kills her. A natural closing point would have been the Red Wedding if her story was about about a failed attempt to get back to her family. Had Sandor's axe not knocked her out then it would be a very poignant close - knowingly going to her death so that she could be with the ones she love there if not in life.

[bent branch]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

This is about how I expect it to play out...but that to me is basically nothing important happening to Dany for another book.  So, that leaves her landing in Westeros, the final conflict with the Others and resolution of everything else in Westeros for one book.  I don't see how that is possible if she doesn't sail for Westeros until the book ends.  

You know, for someone who has a very strong opinion about things that have already occurred in the books (but have yet to be fully revealed), I have very loose expectations for what will happen in the future. As I said in one of my other replies, Dany went from Pentos to Vaes Dothrak in only 4 chapters (only three if we count from her wedding chapter). If GRRM gets Dany across Essos to Pentos and then on across the Narrow Sea before the close of TWOW, I probably won't complain. I didn't find anything to complain of from Dany's trip in AGOT, I doubt I'll be disappointed in her trip back.

[The Fattest Leech]

5 minutes ago, bent branch said:

You know, for someone who has a very strong opinion about things that have already occurred in the books (but have yet to be fully revealed), I have very loose expectations for what will happen in the future. As I said in one of my other replies, Dany went from Pentos to Vaes Dothrak in only 4 chapters (only three if we count from her wedding chapter). If GRRM gets Dany across Essos to Pentos and then on across the Narrow Sea before the close of TWOW, I probably won't complain. I didn't find anything to complain of from Dany's trip in AGOT, I doubt I'll be disappointed in her trip back.

I actually don't really know that I want her to spend so much possible time out with the Dothraki. I feel like if she needs them, then she needs to get them and get going because it is a long ass ride back to the narrow sea from eastern inland sea of Essos

What about Braavos? Do you think she will go there for any unfinished business?

[Cas Stark]

53 minutes ago, bent branch said:

You know, for someone who has a very strong opinion about things that have already occurred in the books (but have yet to be fully revealed), I have very loose expectations for what will happen in the future. As I said in one of my other replies, Dany went from Pentos to Vaes Dothrak in only 4 chapters (only three if we count from her wedding chapter). If GRRM gets Dany across Essos to Pentos and then on across the Narrow Sea before the close of TWOW, I probably won't complain. I didn't find anything to complain of from Dany's trip in AGOT, I doubt I'll be disappointed in her trip back.

GOT was written a long, long time ago.  The story has moved at a snails pace for the last two books and based on the author's own comments, it appears that pace continues in Winds.  Mileage will vary on whether that is or isn't a disappointment.  However, I don't believe he can finish the story in 2 books with the story moving forward so slowly...I don't really expect many major plot points to be resolved in Winds.  Perhaps Stannis story will end.  Dany will sail to Westeros, which is a waste of a book.  Tyrion will do stuff, which will be largely inconsequential until he gets back to Westeros.  Arianne and Aegon will do stuff that is hopefully interesting, but probably a dead end.  According to the author, more people will die and the story gets darker.   

[bent branch]

4 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

I actually don't really know that I want her to spend so much possible time out with the Dothraki. I feel like if she needs them, then she needs to get them and get going because it is a long ass ride back to the narrow sea from eastern inland sea of Essos

What about Braavos? Do you think she will go there for any unfinished business?

I can't think of any reason for her to Braavos. What do you have in mind?

3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

GOT was written a long, long time ago.  The story has moved at a snails pace for the last two books and based on the author's own comments, it appears that pace continues in Winds.  Mileage will vary on whether that is or isn't a disappointment.  However, I don't believe he can finish the story in 2 books with the story moving forward so slowly...I don't really expect many major plot points to be resolved in Winds.  Perhaps Stannis story will end.  Dany will sail to Westeros, which is a waste of a book.  Tyrion will do stuff, which will be largely inconsequential until he gets back to Westeros.  Arianne and Aegon will do stuff that is hopefully interesting, but probably a dead end.  According to the author, more people will die and the story gets darker.   

I agree that different people will find different levels of satisfaction. I expect that I will be satisfied. I think AFFC was the best in the series. I didn't know until I looked into some fan sites about 5 months after reading it that so many people didn't like it. As far as the story going dark, I love dystopian fiction. Stories rarely get too dark for me.

[Ser Maverick]

It will probably be eventful but not as eventful as we expect. With what, like 20 POV characters, I have trouble seeing all that much getting accomplished. Compare this to ASOS which only had 10.

[Lord Varys]

On 20.2.2017 at 5:22 AM, bent branch said:

It is far from certain it will take more than three books to finish the story. For instance, many people are interpreting that Dany and Tyrion don't meet until the end of TWOW because of some statements that GRRM has made. However, it is possible that the Essos storylines go something like this:

Dany 1:  At Vaes Dothrak Dany gathers all the Khalasars (sp?).

That is not very likely in light of the fact that George said that Mago was to be a recurring character in TWoW. Daenerys 1 should cover Dany's meeting with Khal Jhaqo and her interaction with other Dothraki, setting the stage for events to come.

Mago is not likely to survive Dany talking control of either Jhaqo's khalasar nor the entire Dothraki people. She has sworn to see him dead, and she is quite likely to feed him to Drogon as soon as she has the power to do so. Which, most likely, will only be once she takes over all the Dothraki.

A jump ahead in time as far as Dany arriving in Vaes Dothrak in her first chapter would be very uncharacteristically for George, especially after the travelogues we got in AFfC and ADwD - think of Samwell, Brienne, and Tyrion. Not to mention all those Arya chapters in ACoK and ASoS.

I don't think we'll get as many chapters about Dany's travels but I'm pretty sure she is only going to reach Vaes Dothrak at the end of her second or only in her third chapter. And those chapters will have to be very far into the book to make us believe she has traveled this far. Drogon's Dragonstone was not that far into the Dothraki Sea. It was his permanent lair since he escaped Meereen and apparently close enough to Slaver's Bay so that you could reach it in a day's flight or such. If it had been much farther away Dany would have died of thirst on Drogon's back.

On 20.2.2017 at 5:22 AM, bent branch said:

Dany 2:  Dany meets with all the pertinent parties in Meereen. It is decided that they shall all now head to Westeros. Dany and the Dothraki will go by land. This is an eminently practical solution because if you put the Khalasars on ships at Meereen, they will get off at the next port of call, dragons or no. All parties will head toward Pentos, where Illyrio's ships will be available to carry the Khalasars over the Narrow Sea. Thus the Dothraki only need to take one trip across the poison water.

I'm not sure the decision to go to Westeros will be made this quickly. Dany still has no good reason to go there and should her people win the war in Slaver's Bay many people should have the desire to actual stay there, and build an empire in Essos.

Not to mention that there is the Volantene story in the mix, Dany having a lot of ships not only from the Ironborn but also from the Volatene slaves that are likely to revolt and from the ships her people are going to capture from the Ghiscari.

Some Dothraki might ride overland to conquer Pentos and Myr for her but the bulk of her forces in Slaver's Bay is going to board the ships there when they finally move west. 

On 20.2.2017 at 5:22 AM, bent branch said:

Tyrion's chapters will detail the trip of all those that take the ships to Pentos. Vic will definitely go by sea and Barristan will probably go with Dany. Anyway, the scenarios where Dany and Tyrion are puttering around Essos before meeting and leaving for Westeros are unnecessarily pessimistic.

They are not. If you count the amount of chapters George has already in store for the first battle of Meereen, never mind its aftermath and then the arrival of the Volatenes, the battle/violence ensuing then, and its aftermath, not to mention the continuation of the Meereen story and the resolving of the many dangling plot line there it is pretty obvious that things are not going to wrapped in a few chapters.

Especially not since there will be many different agendas and factions be involved there, many of which might not have the same ideas and goals.

On 20.2.2017 at 8:44 PM, Robert Baratheon's hammer said:

Depends really if the dothraki go to Qarth or not. Pentos is not that close to Mereen. If it is to finish in 2 books then He's has to fit in Danny's invasion and war with the war for the dawn in to a Dream of Spring.

Even without the Qarth idea Dany is not likely to return to Slaver's Bay very quickly.

On 21.2.2017 at 0:10 AM, bent branch said:

Ah, but we know exactly how far Pentos is from Vaes Dothrak. It is exactly four Dany chapters.

Seriously though, in AGOT Dany went from Pentos to Vaes Dothrak in only four chapters (or the middle of the book). By the end of Dany's fifth chapter Viserys was dead. This demonstrates that Dany's trip back across Essos does not require huge amounts of chapters. The only thing that GRRM has made absolutely required at this point is that Dany have at least one chapter in Vaes Dothrak before returning to Meereen. Other than that, GRRM could make Dany arrive in Pentos as early as her third chapter. I don't think that will happen, but there really isn't anything to stop GRRM from doing that.

Back in AGoT a book could cover an entire year. We only had a handful of POV characters and very little of actual plot going on. This kind of thing is not going to happen now.

On 21.2.2017 at 0:10 AM, bent branch said:

There is some potential foreshadowing of future events that people are enjoying discussing and I'm not trying to ruin that fun. My only purpose was to point out that Dany's return trip to Westeros could begin early in TWOW (sooner if it had not been for the delayed battles). Although Quaith hinted to Dany that she should go to Asshai, GRRM has stated categorically that we would not see Asshai in this story. So we know not everything that was potential foreshadowing will happen. So the order of events in the story could be Dany begins journey to Westeros and then foreshadowed events occur. If it happens this way, there is no delay in the story flow and a third book will probably not be needed.

Dany might not go to Asshai but she certainly could go and revisit Qarth. She has unfinished business there, especially since the Qartheen actually declared war on her.

On 21.2.2017 at 1:23 AM, bent branch said:

What I find most fascinating in that quote is that GRRM chose the word intersect instead of meet. One definition of intersect is to meet and cross at a point. To me this suggests that Dany and Tyrion will meet and then continue on different paths in the story, suggesting an earlier rather than later meeting. I see this as a good thing in relation to story flow.

The fact that they are supposed to be 'still apart' for most of the book does not make it appear likely they will meet soon. Rather the opposite, actually.

[bent branch]

On ‎2‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 5:28 AM, Lord Varys said:

That is not very likely in light of the fact that George said that Mago was to be a recurring character in TWoW. Daenerys 1 should cover Dany's meeting with Khal Jhaqo and her interaction with other Dothraki, setting the stage for events to come.

Mago is not likely to survive Dany talking control of either Jhaqo's khalasar nor the entire Dothraki people. She has sworn to see him dead, and she is quite likely to feed him to Drogon as soon as she has the power to do so. Which, most likely, will only be once she takes over all the Dothraki.

A jump ahead in time as far as Dany arriving in Vaes Dothrak in her first chapter would be very uncharacteristically for George, especially after the travelogues we got in AFfC and ADwD - think of Samwell, Brienne, and Tyrion. Not to mention all those Arya chapters in ACoK and ASoS.

I don't think we'll get as many chapters about Dany's travels but I'm pretty sure she is only going to reach Vaes Dothrak at the end of her second or only in her third chapter. And those chapters will have to be very far into the book to make us believe she has traveled this far. Drogon's Dragonstone was not that far into the Dothraki Sea. It was his permanent lair since he escaped Meereen and apparently close enough to Slaver's Bay so that you could reach it in a day's flight or such. If it had been much farther away Dany would have died of thirst on Drogon's back.

I'm not sure the decision to go to Westeros will be made this quickly. Dany still has no good reason to go there and should her people win the war in Slaver's Bay many people should have the desire to actual stay there, and build an empire in Essos.

Not to mention that there is the Volantene story in the mix, Dany having a lot of ships not only from the Ironborn but also from the Volatene slaves that are likely to revolt and from the ships her people are going to capture from the Ghiscari.

Some Dothraki might ride overland to conquer Pentos and Myr for her but the bulk of her forces in Slaver's Bay is going to board the ships there when they finally move west. 

They are not. If you count the amount of chapters George has already in store for the first battle of Meereen, never mind its aftermath and then the arrival of the Volatenes, the battle/violence ensuing then, and its aftermath, not to mention the continuation of the Meereen story and the resolving of the many dangling plot line there it is pretty obvious that things are not going to wrapped in a few chapters.

Especially not since there will be many different agendas and factions be involved there, many of which might not have the same ideas and goals.

Even without the Qarth idea Dany is not likely to return to Slaver's Bay very quickly.

Back in AGoT a book could cover an entire year. We only had a handful of POV characters and very little of actual plot going on. This kind of thing is not going to happen now.

Dany might not go to Asshai but she certainly could go and revisit Qarth. She has unfinished business there, especially since the Qartheen actually declared war on her.

The fact that they are supposed to be 'still apart' for most of the book does not make it appear likely they will meet soon. Rather the opposite, actually.

A jump in time? What do you mean that GRRM doesn't write them? Chapter 52 of ADWD Dany jumps on the back of Drogon and flies away. We don't see Dany again until Chapter 71. In that chapter enough time has passed for Dany's hands to have experienced some healing. We're talking about weeks. How was this not a time jump? There is no reason to show periods of time where nothing of importance happens (like an uneventful journey to Vaes Dothrak).

Why would Dany not return to Meereen as soon as she was able? Had Dany not decided to return to Meereen before she met the Dothraki? It is guaranteed that Dany did not go to Vaes Dothrak as a prisoner, Drogon was right there. Those Dothraki would be unable to take Drogon and they would be unable to take Dany while Drogon was there. Also, Dany left her allies in an untenable position in Meereen. She knows that. After all she gave Jhogo, Daario, Groleo and Hero as hostages. Why would Dany go gallivanting around Essos under these circumstances?

Dany has no need to go to Qarth. If a man across the street yells out to you, "Come over here! I'm going to kick your ass!" do you cross the street and make it easy for him? No. You say, "If you want me come over here and get me." Similarly, if Qarth declares war on Dany, they are going to have to go after her. It makes no sense for Dany to go to them and make it easy for them. Also, story wise, we know one of the parties that have an issue with Dany (the warlocks), have already left to track her down. GRRM has no need story wise to send Dany to Qarth.

Yeah, I'm still going with intersect meaning they meet earlier in the story.