Crackpot theories you like?

[Lifestream]

What are some theories you like? (whether regarding events that have happened, or predictions about the future)

If you have evidence or support feel free to include them. If mental gymnastics is mandatory to believe them, that's all right too.

 

Why do you like them?

[King Ragnar]

I really really like the idea that Lem Lemoncloak is actually Ser Richard Lonmouth, who used to be Rhaegar's squire. He could shed some light onto the events surrounding Lyanna's abduction etc.

Also Olyvar being Rosby's ward appeals to me. 

Last one I can think of is the Sailor's wife in fact being Tysha.
 

[Lost Melnibonean]

My favorite crackpots (In my heart of hearts I believe them)...

Dancy is Tywin’s bastard

Darkstar is a Brightflame

The Dusky Woman is Melisandre's mum

Davos drowned after the Battle of the Blackwater

Uthor Underleaf is Roose Bolton's ancestor

And my favorite one of all...

So there's that little box about the Mountain Clans in the Vale, TWOIAF that says the Burned Men were spun off the painted dogs when they were enthralled by a fire a witch with a dragon. I read Alys into this when I first read it but the more likely candidate was Nettles since the fire witch commanded a dragon, but that would muck up my theory on Brown Ben, and I think Alys is a better candidate. So...

What if the dragon wasn't a dragon like Sheepstealer but the child of Aemond One-Eye?!? And what if Timmet (who has one eye ) is not only the true heir to the Vale (as we all know is true, right?), but also a descendant ol' One-Eye?!?

Dude's gonna ride Viserion after Brown Ben gets whacked. I will bet half a groat. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

1 hour ago, Lord Ragnar said:

<snip

Also Olyvar being Rosby's ward appeals to me. 

<snip

Olyvar Frey as the Rosby heir isn't really all that crackpot though, since his mother was a Rosby and he's too far down in the line of inheritance for House Frey for his position at home to preclude being named someone else's heir, it actually works fine.

 

I love the A+H = M&J, the idea that Ashara Dayne married Howland Reed and is Meera and Jojen's mother. 

Also really like S+B = MS, with Melony Seastar as the daughter of Bloodraven and Shiera.

Then there's that Darkstar could be a missing (supposed dead) son of Aerys and Rhaella. Or that he could be the secret child of a secret marriage between Oberyn Martell and a lady of House Dayne. I was really disappointed when the crackpot that Darkstar was the "real" Viserys Targaryen was debunked.

The Tattered Prince being either a distant Targ of some kind or being Gerion Lannister.

Varys being a Targaryen descendant, probably through Aerion Brightflame.

I like (but don't believe) the idea that Jon and Dany are twins, or that Jon and Aegon are twins. Extremely unlikely but immense fun.

And I like all of my theories of course, particularly the one about Mance being a Bloodraven descendant, and the Daario one which I should really get posted one of these days.

[Gertrude]

I am not really familiar with all the crackpot theories out there. The ones I do tend to like are ones that aren't about large events or main characters. So forget about Howland being the High Septon, or Jon and Dany being twins, etc.

I do like the Lem Lemoncloak theory. I also like Oberyn poisoning Tywin. I'd love for the Sailor's Wife to be Tysha. Lot's of little things that I can still work into my head canon because I doubt all of the little details will be addressed by the end.

[King17]

Well I once read about a theory that bran is blood Ravens son it was interesting

[Lost Melnibonean]

41 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

I am not really familiar with all the crackpot theories out there. The ones I do tend to like are ones that aren't about large events or main characters. So forget about Howland being the High Septon, or Jon and Dany being twins, etc.

I do like the Lem Lemoncloak theory. I also like Oberyn poisoning Tywin. I'd love for the Sailor's Wife to be Tysha. Lot's of little things that I can still work into my head canon because I doubt all of the little details will be addressed by the end.

Tysha = the Sailor's Wife is not crackpot. And Lem = Richard Lonmouth is relatively well accepted. 

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

Robert knew that Cersei was fucking Jaime.

[Joey Crows]

Not sure how crackpot it is, but I love the theory that Varys is a secret Blackfyre through his mother. That would explain a lot of yet to be explained things as far as his motivation and his partnership with Illyrio.

[HoboJed]

Theae are some crackpots that I like (which does not mean I think they are lilely to be true. I suspect most will turn out to be wrong, and some are mutually exclusive):

1) Daenerys is actually the daughter of Oberyn Martell and Ashara Dayne, making her a descendant of Nymeria, Naerys Targaryen and the original Daenerys Targaryen, and also setting her up to be the next sword of the morning (literally, as she becomes Lightbringer... which in turn may turn out to be the sun).

2) The burning of the Seven actually showed us future events, and may tie certain characters thematically to the aspects of the seven. The Stranger loses its fingers one by one, like Theon does later, the Mother has lines of flame going up her face similar to how Lady Stoneheart has lines of blood going down hers, etc.

3) Seven people will fulfill the AAR prophecy requirements, and each will have an important role in ending the new Long Night. My favourite being Theon who was reborn (remembered who he was when he heard his name spoken), after seeing darkness gathering (ravens roosting) and the red star bleeding (red weirwood tree leaves having fallen) in the smoke (fog), before being above the salt (at the wedding feast). This all happens in one chapter with Prince in the title...

4) Jon will be frozen inside the wall, and will eventually emerge leading the Others (but that might not be as bad as it sounds).

5) Counter to the previous, it will actually be Stannis who will lead the Others (there is a quote about how he would fight to the bitter end, and then some).

6) Quentyn is alive and well, and has a dragon.

7) There is an ice dragon called Winter, who has been kept magically trapped at the bottom of the cool pool at Winterfell for millenia, but is in the process of waking.

I have many more, but that will do for now.

[Lifestream]

6 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Then there's that Darkstar could be a missing (supposed dead) son of Aerys and Rhaella. Or that he could be the secret child of a secret marriage between Oberyn Martell and a lady of House Dayne. I was really disappointed when the crackpot that Darkstar was the "real" Viserys Targaryen was debunked.

I had no idea such a theory existed.

 

I'd like to see more of Darkstar and why he attacked Myrcella. I don't think it was ever explained, was it?

[Gertrude]

6 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Tysha = the Sailor's Wife is not crackpot. And Lem = Richard Lonmouth is relatively well accepted. 

Told ya I wasn't well versed in crackpot   I don't really go for the truly crackpot ones.

But I will sign on to one mentioned up-thread. That the ice dragon, or remains of, cools the pool in the Godswood (that's the one that's cold, right?) I just like the thought of it.

[Shouldve Taken The Black]

My favourite crackpot is that Daario and Euron are the same person. Not because I believe it, but because despite all evidence to the contrary, and the sheer weirdness of the idea, some people are really committed to it.

I kind of hope it is actually true, as it would probably break the internet.

[King Ragnar]

Another one I like is Timett son of Timett of the Burned Men being the true heir to the vale, being the child of the 4th daughter of Elys Waynwood and Alys Arryn.

Right here

 

[Lord Corlys Velaryon]

9 hours ago, Lifestream said:

What are some theories you like? ... Why do you like them?

I'm particularly into the thought that Aegon I was actually infertile, helping to explain the extremely late births of Aenys & Maegor, who I think were fathered by Aethon Velaryon (& not some singer or whatever as rumoured) & conceived by Visenya using blood magic respectively. I just can't see why Aegon would go to so much planning & effort to establish his dynasty, but not "father" Aenys & Maegor until the middle of the extremely dangerous (multiple assassination attempts on the royals by the Dornish in KL itself, pregnancies & births leaving Rhaenys & then Visenya out of action for months at a time, etc) First Dornish War when Rhaenys was ~35 & Visenya ~40. After all, "a king needs an heir (& a spare)" to actually continue his line & dynasty. And as I saw detailed in another thread on such (courtesy of @Lord Varys specifically), it helps to explain not only the myriad of marriage requests that Aegon received during the Conquest & after Rhaenys' death, but also the nature of some of them (e.g. Sharra Arryn's condition of her eldest son, Ronnel, being named his heir).

I like that for the irony for all of the (generally) brilliant warrior & politician was, the poor bastard may not have actually been able to perform as well in another kingly duty & masculine ideal of virility to father heirs of his own. And of course, that the Targaryen dynasty would not have actually descended from him (although close enough in a way, because other/previous incest), he, the Conqueror. I wonder if Aegon may have actually been in denial - say thinking it was Visenya who was barren & perhaps being a factor in favouring Rhaenys so much more intimately instead. And although likely only more prominent after Rhaenys death (hell, perhaps even Aegon's own), the rumours of Aenys' bastardy. Then there's Maegor's conception, which I think was at least facilitated with magic like his recovery resurrection later soon after becoming king himself.

Whilst on that, I'm guessing the latter at least caused Maegor's own fertility problems & his "monstrous" offspring, i.e. a devastating magical side-effect causing such. Quite similar imo to Dany's situation with Rhaego - I'm of the opinion that Dany's presence in the tent whilst MMD was doing her thing "for" Drogo, Rhaego became the sacrifice of "soul/essence/consciousness/whatever" for his father (foetus-like capacity, not squalling like an actual baby or anything as Rhaego was stillborn, after the "procedure") & such triggered the "blood of the dragon" to transform him into what was described. So, same deal because of Maegor's resurrection at least (Tyanna's "confession" of poisoning them more likely to be from duress under torture &/or an actual explicit explanation of the truth) with his offspring - Maegor's life was "restored" after his death, but continuing life in a bloodline couldn't be "payed for".

So, assuming this is at least ballpark, what about the other historical cases. Well IIRC, those are only Laena's last child (a stillborn son) & Rhaenyra's (a stillborn daughter, posthumously-Visenya), both fathered by Daemon. Now, Daemon & Rhaenyra were monsters in their own ways, but there's never any mention of even hint (IIRC) of association with magic (besides you know, "normal" dragon riding/hatching). I think these stillbirths were manipulated after the fact by a "source" (probably Eustace) & presented more widely historically (Gyldayn, Yandel, etc), as being "monstrosities", in the classic pro-Green/anti-Black bias of/for the period (not that there isn't examples of the other way around, though its definitely more blatant & persistent of being against the Rogue Prince, etc than for).

7 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

My favorite crackpots (In my heart of hearts I believe them)... Dancy is Tywin’s bastard, Darkstar is a Brightflame, The Dusky Woman is Melisandre's mum, Davos drowned after the Battle of the Blackwater, Uthor Underleaf is Roose Bolton's ancestor

I've seen the Dancy theory before, IIRC, but not yours specifically with the noses - nice work. Not the most convincing theory, but I could see it being a possibility, though perhaps more info in TWoW could hint at such (or not). All but confirmed imo that Tywin was the horny Hand & if so, well that obviously boosts this theory.

Again, great work with the Darkstar-Brightflame theory, but here I'm rather less supportive sorry. I do think the Dankstar plotline in TWoW will certainly give us more insight into Dayne-Targaryens relations (hopefully including the Tower of Joy), I'm most partial to the Maegor became a KG theory. I'm not too sure on a thematic level why Darkstar would be descended from Aerion - can you elaborate if you have any further/specific thoughts? I see Young Griff-Aegon more likely to have Brightflame ancestry (whether from Maegor or one of Aerion's Lyseni "bastards"? - he may not have married Daenora until c.230AC), perhaps say if a specific part of this theory ends up being true) than Gerold (named for the White Bull? Particularly interesting if he actually say was Arthur's squire or page). And even then female-line Blackfyre descent, & then perhaps (I'm guessing very likely) Bittersteel-Calla ancestry would take precedence on several levels ...

Mmm, the Dusky Woman-Missandei one just feels a bit too ... completionary/completetionist? I do agree that the Dusky Woman is seemingly also Naathi as well - not as dark as Summer Islanders are described & frankly, a slave of colour in Terros is probably more likely to be Naathi than Summer Islander, at least where the likes of Euron could come across her (I don't see even Forsaken-revelation Crow's Eye messing too close to Summer Islander waters when he has no need to). There'd be what though, hundreds (thousands?) of potential female Naathi sex slaves (or any kind, but unfortunately it seems like they are most prized for that >.< - though I could see Summer Islanders perhaps valued near as highly there too) that could fit of an age group & freedom at the time of her birth to be in the possibility of Missandei's mother. Do you think the DW was taken on the same raid as Missandei & her brothers (Marselen, Mossador, & "some un-Unsullied"), because Missandei only mentions herself & her siblings with no mention or a mother or any other kind of relative. And then there's the Dusky Woman's past - was she in the already a sex slave for +5 years (?) as taken on the same raid would be? We have no idea what her past was, but it's perhaps more likely that her enslavement was more recent, maybe even sent to Lys direct without even "training" in say Yunkai. Her healing skills could easily be put down to a role in her pacifist native culture instead of specific training after capture. And then there's the ages of Missandei's brothers - late teens, maybe even early 20's? That would reduce the statistical chance of the Dusky Woman being their mother ...

Davos ... I think it ultimately just comes down to luck plot armour made up of floaties, for the story. That being said, I'm open to perhaps the Drowned God or whatever providing a helping hand (but there isn't really a sense of Cthulhu in Davos' arc afterwards like there is say in Aeron's or Patches'). Absolutely fucking kudos for not going further with (among the very worst crackpot, imo) the eternal, continual, & abhorrent "Mel talking about glamours, mentions fingerbones" angle!

As to Uthor Bolton, afraid not sorry. For starters, why & how does he continue the male-line of House Bolton? A tourney knight who is likely only an "entrepreneurial" hedge knight of the Riverlands(?) with no required noble lineage, if any, for such ...

8 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

What if the dragon wasn't a dragon like Sheepstealer but the child of Aemond One-Eye?!? And what if Timmet (who has one eye ) is not only the true heir to the Vale (as we all know is true, right?), but also a descendant ol' One-Eye?!?

100% Netty & Sheeps, imo. That being said, it seems like the maesters knew that Sheepstealer at least was dead by 153AC, so I wonder what their live was like there & how long ... The Eyrie eventually sent out a (at least end-goal, successful) dragon-killing party? ... As for Alys & Aemond's lovechild, that is also an interesting one - unfortunately something we may not have answered until Fire & Blood, if ever. I like the theories that perhaps say the GoHH (& so Jenny, imo) &/or the Bloodraven-era Blackwoods descended from them, though they certainly have their own leaps, holes, & lack of evidence. Sorry but, EURGH somebody needs to give the gift (or death by clout to the ear, I'm good either way) to the Timett inherits the Vale "theories". Even if he has some super-secret-Eyrie-heritage (he doesn't) nobody's gonna accept him unless the Mountain clans at least wipe out all of the nobility of the Vale - Royces, etc aren't gonna support because "First Men unite!" - they'd take it for themselves. He's ~2.5k years on the wrong side of the Bloody Gate, from exiles who were almost certainly 100% virtually all smallfolk (bending the knee & maintaining supermassively more of a status quo is always better than becoming, truly, savages for nobles) begin with anyway (I'm guessing primarily, if not entirely, previously sworn to suddenly extinct Houses).

8 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Dude's gonna ride Viserion after Brown Ben gets whacked. I will bet half a groat.

I don't think it will happen, but I could definitely see BBP bonding more with Viserion for a while (particularly as his egg was, imo, very likely the one that had once belonged to Elaena, Ben's acknowledged Targaryen ancestor). Nevertheless, I think it'll be Tyrion & Viserion only & to the end (dead sacrifices, beyond the curtain of light). Not because of the loathsome, false AJT, but simply with his wits (though it would be hilarious in a way if it turned out Tyrion had his own drops from Viserys Plumm).

@Lady Blizzardborn It is known for Olyvar Rosby, BR+SS=Mel, & Vaerys. The others ... yeah, nah. Interesting, what's the angle on Bloodraven & Mance?

7 hours ago, Gertrude said:

So forget about Howland being the High Septon, or Jon and Dany being twins

They should be forgotten because they are absolutely horrid

7 hours ago, Gertrude said:

I do like the Lem Lemoncloak theory. I also like Oberyn poisoning Tywin. I'd love for the Sailor's Wife to be Tysha.

Everything is there for Lem Lonmouth, but I just don't think it will come into play for certain. Whether that's TWoW or whatever informing us he died during the Bobellion, or just simply non-reveal. Oberyn & Tywin ... On a thematic level there is Tywin's legacy = literally shit & the state of his corpse, but I have no idea how his body could be in such a bad state at death (& after) short of interference from the Red Viper - it just fits! Tysha = the Sailor's Wife ... Mayhaps, though I think the poor girl possibly suffered even more/ worse following the gang rape  Tywin Lannister is/was Westeros' worst ever war criminal & perpetrator of crimes against humanity. Also, I think we & Tyrion aren't meant to know the answer to "wherever whores go". Still, I hope I'm wrong & you're right.

6 hours ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

Robert knew that Cersei was fucking Jaime.

Of course Robert was well, Robert, but so many people around him knew - Barristan the only one on the Small Council. I do wonder if there's the possibility he suspected subconsciously or something, like how he may have about Lyanna & Rhaegar. But really, Cersei, Jaime, the kids, & probably Tyrion & Tywin would be dead.

@HoboJed 1, 3, 4, 5, & 6 - No, just no. 2) is interesting, do you have a link or further expounding? 7) An ice dragon &/or Other/s died at Winterfell (godswood pool specifically?) ... On the "no's", however:

• Dany would almost certainly have (extremely distant) descent from Nymeria through Dyanna Dayne.
• I do think that Dany & Jon will/have interchangeably fulfilled AAR & TPTWP, mayhaps with a 3rd assistant. 
• Jon's body is set to chill before resurrection shall we say.
• Stannis is going to fight to the bitter end & then some (i.e. sacrificing Shireen as last ditch) at Winterfell against the Others.
• Crispy Quent (I loved his character & arc too, sigh).

3 hours ago, Lifestream said:

I'd like to see more of Darkstar and why he attacked Myrcella. I don't think it was ever explained, was it?

Dankstar would've done well as a Sand Snake:

Quote

"The lion's dead. Who knows which cub the lioness prefers?"

"The one in her own den." Ser Gerold drew his sword. It glimmered in the starlight, sharp as lies. "This is how you start a war. Not with a crown of gold, but with a blade of steel."

I am no murderer of children. "Put that away. Myrcella is under my protection. And Ser Arys will permit no harm to come to his precious princess, you know that." (A Feast for Crows, The Queenmaker)

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

41 minutes ago, Lord Ragnar said:

Another one I like is Timett son of Timett of the Burned Men being the true heir to the vale, being the child of the 4th daughter of Elys Waynwood and Alys Arryn.

Right here

 

It is known. 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 

An all-time classic. Truly. 

[Lifestream]

3 hours ago, Shouldve Taken The Black said:

My favourite crackpot is that Daario and Euron are the same person. Not because I believe it, but because despite all evidence to the contrary, and the sheer weirdness of the idea, some people are really committed to it.

 

I kind of hope it is actually true, as it would probably break the internet.

 

I think I read this theory for the first time just yesterday. Haven't really checked the evidence and validity myself (maybe on a re-read I will) but it sounds hilarious, as in ya it'd break the internet.

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I wonder if there are theories or predictions that haven't been made at all despite all the years it's taking for TWOW. I'd like some surprises.

 

Anyone think Jon will warg Ghost and then maybe a human? It would fulfill one of Melisandre's visions in her ADWD chapter.

Quote

The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. But the skulls were here as well, the skulls were all around him.

-Melisandre I, ch.31, ADWD

I've been thinking it for a while, especially considering Varamyr's chapter. I feel it's foreshadowing for Jon (since he tries to gain control of that woman).

 

I dunno if this will sound crazy (and dunno if anyone has suggested it before) but Patchface could be a candidate? Bran wargs Hodor because Hodor is " slow of wits ". Patchface is described as a "simpleton" (chapter 44 I think)when he reaches the Wall. And on top of that Melisandre confesses she has seen Patchface a lot in her visions. Though she fears him.

Quote

Melisandre's face darkened. "That creature is dangerous. Many a time I have glimpsed him in my flames. Sometimes there are skulls about him, and his lips are red with blood."

-Jon X, ch.49, ADWD

Even the lips red with blood can be understood if we look at Varamyr's chapter. Here Varamyr tries to take over Thistle.

Quote

"Get out, get out!" he heard her own mouth shouting. Her body staggered, fell, and rose again, her hands flailed, her legs jerked this way and that in some grotesque dance as his spirit and her own fought for the flesh. She sucked down a mouthful of the frigid air, and Varamyr had half a heartbeat to glory in the taste of it and the strength of this young body before her teeth snapped together and filled his mouth with blood.

-Prologue, ADWD

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

1 hour ago, Lord Corlys Velaryon said:

<snip

It is known for Olyvar Rosby, BR+SS=Mel, & Vaerys. The others ... yeah, nah. Interesting, what's the angle on Bloodraven & Mance?

<snip

I came up with that one during the whole Rhaegar is Mance craze, as an explanation for why people keep mixing The Mance up with Prince Emo.

Basically it goes like this--Mance has a lot of seeming-Targ-like traits because he is part Targ, just not of Aerys and Rhaella's line.

Parallels with Bloodraven:
-both joined the NW, both deserted (though the details on Bloodraven's desertion are not clear)
-both are known for fighting and leadership ability
-both have the ability to inspire others to devotion and deep loyalty as well as hatred and distrust
-both have raven associations (Bloodraven through his byname and his Raven's Teeth, Mance with his raven wing helm)
-both knew about the threat of the Others before anyone else did (in theory Mance knew far enough in advance to get to work uniting the Free Folk)
-Mance's cloak is described in terms very similar to Bloodraven's colors of smoke and scarlet, no other item in the series comes close to the same description
-the silk used to mend the cloak came from Asshai which is known for magic which just happens to be Bloodraven's specialty
-the black and red are not just Targaryen colors but also the colors of House Blackwood, and Bloodraven's mother was a Blackwood (somewhere there's a fantastic discussion of the possibility that the Blackwoods descend from the Warg King and that's where Bloodraven got his skinchanging ability...as well as the current Starks who also have a Blackwood ancestress)

Conclusive? No. But possible, and it would explain a few things. But it would mean Mel missed out on some prime kings' blood. Take that as good or bad as you choose.