Crackpot theories you like?

[Lady Blizzardborn]

5 hours ago, Lifestream said:

I had no idea such a theory existed.

 

I'd like to see more of Darkstar and why he attacked Myrcella. I don't think it was ever explained, was it?

Oh yes, it was wonderful. Darkstar could still be Jaehaerys Targaryen, who supposedly died somewhere before his third birthday. Not sure what that would do in terms of adding to the story, but it would rather vindicate Aerys' idea that people were plotting against him if someone stole his son and claimed he had died. I think there are more links to Oberyn, but we don't know really. We only have the statement from Ran that Darkstar is not anybody's bastard son, so speculation continues on who his parents were. 

And speaking of crackpots...we don't have a single POV character who actually saw Darkstar attack Myrcella. What if...he didn't? What if someone else did, and he blocked their blade cutting off her ear but saving her life? OR...what if it wasn't Myrcella at all but the lookalike cousin Rosamund Lannister? If Arys was the one who went to Doran they could easily have pulled a switch and convinced Rosamund to pretend to be her cousin. Then Doran could let Arianne and everybody else think that Myrcella had been wounded to up the stakes and gain their cooperation. There has to be a reason why Rosamund went to Dorne. She's Chekov's Cousin.

[Lifestream]

13 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Oh yes, it was wonderful. Darkstar could still be Jaehaerys Targaryen, who supposedly died somewhere before his third birthday. Not sure what that would do in terms of adding to the story, but it would rather vindicate Aerys' idea that people were plotting against him if someone stole his son and claimed he had died. I think there are more links to Oberyn, but we don't know really. We only have the statement from Ran that Darkstar is not anybody's bastard son, so speculation continues on who his parents were. 

And speaking of crackpots...we don't have a single POV character who actually saw Darkstar attack Myrcella. What if...he didn't? What if someone else did, and he blocked their blade cutting off her ear but saving her life? OR...what if it wasn't Myrcella at all but the lookalike cousin Rosamund Lannister? If Arys was the one who went to Doran they could easily have pulled a switch and convinced Rosamund to pretend to be her cousin. Then Doran could let Arianne and everybody else think that Myrcella had been wounded to up the stakes and gain their cooperation. There has to be a reason why Rosamund went to Dorne. She's Chekov's Cousin.

I just checked the chapter where Arianne's plan fails. And it's true that she didn't see Darkstar attack Myrcella. We go back to Darkstar when Hotah tells his men to go after him. And then Darkstar is seen running and Myrcella with blood. It's so easy to miss the first time around. Did we learn who betrayed Arianne in the end? Cause I don't recall and had a bit of a difficulty remembering the people who were present in the Dorne chapters.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

4 minutes ago, Lifestream said:

I just checked the chapter where Arianne's plan fails. And it's true that she didn't see Darkstar attack Myrcella. We go back to Darkstar when Hotah tells his men to go after him. And then Darkstar is seen running and Myrcella with blood. It's so easy to miss the first time around. Did we learn who betrayed Arianne in the end? Cause I don't recall and had a bit of a difficulty remembering the people who were present in the Dorne chapters.

No we haven't learned that yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Arys though. His look back at Arianne before engaging with Hotah strikes me as one of guilt and regret right before committing suicide-by-cop, as it were. Of course I could be misreading it because I want him to have been the one who told Doran.

[Lifestream]

2 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

No we haven't learned that yet. I wouldn't be surprised if it was Arys though. His look back at Arianne before engaging with Hotah strikes me as one of guilt and regret right before committing suicide-by-cop, as it were. Of course I could be misreading it because I want him to have been the one who told Doran.

Hm... I mean he has crossed my mind, but I'm not sure why he'd do that. Surely because he doesn't really want Myrcella in danger but why die? Did he want an "honorable" death? I probably need to read the Dorne chapters a lot more carefully.

[Lifestream]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 

If 10 years hadn't passed and we haven't gotten ADWD, I might have believed it. I think the show is going that route, probably cause they can't fit all the characters from the books. But Martin killed them both before it could be confirmed in the books. Perhaps he'll drop more hints in his next books.

[Shuvuuia]

i don't believe it and i don't think there was any real evidence for it, but i like the Coldhands is Daemon II Blackfyre idea.  mainly because i liked Daemon and it would've been cool to see more of him.

[HoboJed]

@Lord Corlys Velaryon as I said, I don't rate all those theories as being likely, just that I like them, and would be happy for them to actually happen in the story (even if I suspect they won't).

As for #2, I may have made a post regarding that some time ago, but it is likely my thinking has moved on since then. To sum up, during the burning of the Seven, Davos focuses on each of the statues, and describes in turn something about them (except the Crone). The following are what he notes about them (I don't have the book on me, so this is paraphrasing):

* The Father was first to fall

* The Mother had flames licking up her cheeks (it may have said "like tears", but don't quote me on that).

* The Maiden embraced the Warrior

* The Smith lost his head

* The Stranger's fingers burnt away one by one

So, this quite nicely fits:

* Bran falling pretty much starts everything, and redefines his life's path.

* Caitlyn rends the flesh from her own face, leaving blood flowing down her face like tears.

* Brienne pinned Jaime down in a fight, which resulted in them being caught by the Bloody Mummers, and ended up causing a massive change of direction for both characters.

* Now this is a bit fuzzy, but both Gendry and Sandor lost their helmets (ie, heads). Gendry is a literal smith, but the loss of his helmet wasn't as symbolic as Sandor's. I favour Sandor being thematically tied to the Smith, and there are other links that support this, but I accept there is not enough textual evidence to support this currently.

* Theon lost his fingers one by one during his torture by Ramsay (interestingly being left with 7 fingers), which obviously had a massive impact on his character. Theon is also massively thematically linked to the Stranger (most obviously in that he is not at home anywhere, but there is a lot more besides).

I don't know if this has any greater meaning, but I do strongly suspect it was intentional (even if I've gotten some of the details wrong).

Regarding #7, the reason for the cool pool comes from the following:

1) Nobody knows how deep it is, and yet, unlike the other three pools in the godswood, it isn't hot. If geothermal energy is the reason for the heat, you would expect all deep pools in the area to be of similar temperatures.

2) It is positioned right in front of the heart tree, or more specifically, the heart tree is positioned such that it keeps watch over the pool.

3) The one large cool pool and three smaller hot pools is a similar relationship to the one large ice dragon and three smaller fire dragons from The Ice Dragon (I know it isn't set in the world of ASOIAF, but GRRM has been known to reuse ideas across his various stories, as do all authors).

[sweetsunray]

23 minutes ago, HoboJed said:

Gendry is a literal smith, but the loss of his helmet wasn't as symbolic as Sandor's.

Gendry totally lost his mojo for a while after his Bull helmet was taken, bit of an identity crisis. He's making his own sword now though, and I see him as warrior who "protects the children".

[Lifestream]

5 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Gendry totally lost his mojo for a while after his Bull helmet was taken, bit of an identity crisis. He's making his own sword now though, and I see him as warrior who "protects the children".

What about Sandor? While Sandor's arc starts with the death of Mycah, he protects Joffrey, Sansa and Arya till he dies. If he's alive can't he protect the kids? (ok perhaps too optimistic) cause he already fits the Warrior and his name means "defender" or "protector" (if we go by the meaning given to the name by Wiki)

Since Gendry got his helmet back, can't we hope for Sandor to do so as well? Can Gendry fight? Because I don't really remember. I think he was supposed to be taught but didn't?

[sweetsunray]

4 minutes ago, Lifestream said:

What about Sandor? While Sandor's arc starts with the death of Mycah, he protects Joffrey, Sansa and Arya till he dies. If he's alive can't he protect the kids? (ok perhaps too optimistic) cause he already fits the Warrior and his name means "defender" or "protector" (if we go by the meaning given to the name by Wiki)

Since Gendry got his helmet back, can't we hope for Sandor to do so as well? Can Gendry fight? Because I don't really remember. I think he was supposed to be taught but didn't?

Sandor is warrior too: that's what the verse says about a warrior in the song - they protect the children.

Gendry's physical helmet is lost and so is the agricultural bull identity. But there's the stag and bear ties for him. 

We don't know whether anyone of the BwB trained him intensly. But Lem was the adult to hang out and watch out over the inn from the bushes. I could see Lem as taking the time a few hours a day when on watch duty to train Gendry. George imo wants us to believe Gendry is untrained on the surface. Gendry does know how to wield a hammer. Give the boy a warhammer.

[Lost Melnibonean]

4 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Sandor is warrior too: that's what the verse says about a warrior in the song - they protect the children.

Gendry's physical helmet is lost and so is the agricultural bull identity. But there's the stag and bear ties for him. 

We don't know whether anyone of the BwB trained him intensly. But Lem was the adult to hang out and watch out over the inn from the bushes. I could see Lem as taking the time a few hours a day when on watch duty to train Gendry. George imo wants us to believe Gendry is untrained on the surface. Gendry does know how to wield a hammer. Give the boy a warhammer.

Jaime identifies with the Warrior, and he is consumed by guilt for neglecting Rhaegar's children. Just think how elated he will be when he learns that he has the opportunity to play kingmaker for Rhaegar's son! Of course, I can't imagine that Aegon would forgive and forget, but perhaps Aegon will allow Jaime to take the black. And of course, Aegon is not really the son of Rhaegar, but when he reaches the Wall, Jaime will finally have the chance to protect Rhaegar's child. 

[sweetsunray]

1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Jaime identifies with the Warrior, and he is consumed by guilt for neglecting Rhaegar's children. Just think how elated he will be when he learns that he has the opportunity to play kingmaker for Rhaegar's son! Of course, I can't imagine that Aegon would forgive and forget, but perhaps Aegon will allow Jaime to take the black. And of course, Aegon is not really the son of Rhaegar, but when he reaches the Wall, Jaime will finally have the chance to protect Rhaegar's child. 

Exactly, though I'm not so sure whether Jaime gets a chance to reach Aegon in time.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

5 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Jaime identifies with the Warrior, and he is consumed by guilt for neglecting Rhaegar's children. Just think how elated he will be when he learns that he has the opportunity to play kingmaker for Rhaegar's son! Of course, I can't imagine that Aegon would forgive and forget, but perhaps Aegon will allow Jaime to take the black. And of course, Aegon is not really the son of Rhaegar, but when he reaches the Wall, Jaime will finally have the chance to protect Rhaegar's child. 

The jury is out on that one. Fan support is about 50/50 for Aegon being RhAegon as opposed to FAeon.

Then of course there's always the possibility that he could be Rhaegar's son...but not Elia's. We don't know how many attempts he made at getting that third head of the dragon. So, that pot is officially cracked, if it wasn't before.

Don't forget that Jaime could play kingmaker for Jon.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

10 hours ago, Lifestream said:

Hm... I mean he has crossed my mind, but I'm not sure why he'd do that. Surely because he doesn't really want Myrcella in danger but why die? Did he want an "honorable" death? I probably need to read the Dorne chapters a lot more carefully.

Let me know if you find anything one way or the other in the Dorne chapters. 

He certainly would have wanted an honorable death, but he also would have wanted Arianne to think of him as a hero instead of as the guy who ratted her out to her dad. No way he wanted to face her when she learned the truth...if he was the one to tell. And after breaking his vows with Arianne and plotting with her, he might well have felt that he couldn't go back to King's Landing.

[For Highgarden]

•Winter the ice dragon 

•Arya will kill Dany because she perceives her as a mad queen who burns the innocent. Paralleling Jaime and Arys. 

•Black cat in Kings Landing is Rhaella

 

[rotting sea cow]

Semi-crackpot because there is a non negligible chance it's true but I really like the theory that Mance is behind the PL and he is glamoring as Ramsay, who instead is cool caged.

 

[Lost Melnibonean]

6 hours ago, For Highgarden said:

•Winter the ice dragon 

•Arya will kill Dany because she perceives her as a mad queen who burns the innocent. Paralleling Jaime and Arys. 

•Black cat in Kings Landing is Rhaella

 

It is known. 

ETA

But as noted below, it's little Rhaenys not Rhaella. 

[Victarian Revolution]

17 hours ago, HoboJed said:

@Lord Corlys Velaryon as I said, I don't rate all those theories as being likely, just that I like them, and would be happy for them to actually happen in the story (even if I suspect they won't).

As for #2, I may have made a post regarding that some time ago, but it is likely my thinking has moved on since then. To sum up, during the burning of the Seven, Davos focuses on each of the statues, and describes in turn something about them (except the Crone). The following are what he notes about them (I don't have the book on me, so this is paraphrasing):

* The Father was first to fall

* The Mother had flames licking up her cheeks (it may have said "like tears", but don't quote me on that).

* The Maiden embraced the Warrior

* The Smith lost his head

* The Stranger's fingers burnt away one by one

So, this quite nicely fits:

* Bran falling pretty much starts everything, and redefines his life's path.

* Caitlyn rends the flesh from her own face, leaving blood flowing down her face like tears.

* Brienne pinned Jaime down in a fight, which resulted in them being caught by the Bloody Mummers, and ended up causing a massive change of direction for both characters.

* Now this is a bit fuzzy, but both Gendry and Sandor lost their helmets (ie, heads). Gendry is a literal smith, but the loss of his helmet wasn't as symbolic as Sandor's. I favour Sandor being thematically tied to the Smith, and there are other links that support this, but I accept there is not enough textual evidence to support this currently.

* Theon lost his fingers one by one during his torture by Ramsay (interestingly being left with 7 fingers), which obviously had a massive impact on his character. Theon is also massively thematically linked to the Stranger (most obviously in that he is not at home anywhere, but there is a lot more besides).

I don't know if this has any greater meaning, but I do strongly suspect it was intentional (even if I've gotten some of the details wrong).

Regarding #7, the reason for the cool pool comes from the following:

1) Nobody knows how deep it is, and yet, unlike the other three pools in the godswood, it isn't hot. If geothermal energy is the reason for the heat, you would expect all deep pools in the area to be of similar temperatures.

2) It is positioned right in front of the heart tree, or more specifically, the heart tree is positioned such that it keeps watch over the pool.

3) The one large cool pool and three smaller hot pools is a similar relationship to the one large ice dragon and three smaller fire dragons from The Ice Dragon (I know it isn't set in the world of ASOIAF, but GRRM has been known to reuse ideas across his various stories, as do all authors).

I read this as;

The Father was first to fall - Ned 

* The Mother had flames licking up her cheeks (it may have said "like tears", but don't quote me on that). - Catelyn Stark? Need to re-read the exact phrasing

* The Maiden embraced the Warrior - Sansa and the Hound

* The Smith lost his head - Robb Stark's body desecrated 

* The Stranger's fingers burnt away one by one - Jon (the stranger to the Starks) and his burned hands - possible future foreshadowing

[King Ragnar]

5 hours ago, For Highgarden said:

•Winter the ice dragon 

•Arya will kill Dany because she perceives her as a mad queen who burns the innocent. Paralleling Jaime and Arys. 

•Black cat in Kings Landing is Rhaella

 

You mean Balerion, warged by Princess Rhaenys

I'm pretty sure the black tom cat and Rhaella's Balerion are one and the same but I've never heard of it being Rhaenys

[Lady Blizzardborn]

10 minutes ago, Lord Ragnar said:

You mean Balerion, warged by Princess Rhaella?

I'm pretty sure the black tom cat and Rhaella's Balerion are one and the same but I've never heard of it being Rhaella

That would be Princess Rhaenys. Queen Rhaella was Rhaegar, Viserys, and Dany's mother.

The theory is that at the moment of her death Rhaenys may have accidentally skinchanged into Balerion. It works on the same level as the idea that Robb might have briefly gone into Grey Wind before Grey Wind was also killed. The cat's behavior is consistent both with feral cats and also potentially with a traumatized toddler trapped in a feline body who grows less human with each passing year. 

The idea behind Rhaenys being remotely able to skinchange has to do with her having the blood of House Blackwood through her great-great-grandmother Betha Blackwood (queen to Aegon V). This also potentially hinges on Blackwoods being descended from the Warg King. It's actually a fairly strong theory because Bloodraven is one of the most powerful skinchangers we've seen and his mother was a Blackwood. Given GRRM's comments about the dragonlords not skinchanging their dragons, it makes sense that the only Targaryen we've seen with skinchanging ability did not get it from his Targ father.