Feather Crystal

Reread Project: the Titled Chapters - The Prophet AFFC chapter 1

48 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Pain killer Jane said:

A child of the eighties.

LOL, I'll let you keep thinking that! hahaha

Edited by Feather Crystal

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On January 9, 2017 at 6:40 PM, Feather Crystal said:

Welcome to the reread project of the titled chapters! While I am your host, there are friends that I have invited to help me get started. Amongst them are @LynnS , @ravenous reader , @Pain killer Jane , @Lady Dyanna , @Seams , @wolfmaid7 , @WeaselPie , @Mace Cooterian , @JNR , @DarkSister1001 , @Queen of Winter , @Sly Wren , @Cowboy Dan , @The Snowfyre Chorus , @Prince of Ghost , @Regular John Umber , and @Yield. Please feel free to invite anyone whom you think would enjoy this discussion.

Thanks, Feather! :cheers:

A great project and I'll be back when I get time to absorb it all.

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49 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

Thanks, Feather! :cheers:

A great project and I'll be back when I get time to absorb it all.

You're welcome! I look forward to your contributions! No hurry. I think I was wrong to try and place a time limit on it! We move on after everyone says all they want to say about this chapter.

But I am beginning to believe that this chapter is setting the stage for all the titled chapters. It's our primer.

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On 1/14/2017 at 10:30 AM, Pain killer Jane said:

I think it was @ravenous reader or LmL mentioned it or some else mentioned it in one of LmL's threads. I don't remember. I can try to do it but Ravenous Reader would be much better at the comparison.

On the 'nennymoan thread,' it was @Little Scribe of Naath who first identified the parallel between the colors worn by Aeron's 'drowned men' and the Others, as a means towards interpreting Patchface's riddles, particularly the one about the blue, green and black flames under the sea, and the old fish eat the young fish.  Along with her, @LmL developed the conversation further; it's worth a read.   Links to the relevant conversations:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/143573-nennymoans-and-merlings-more-patchface-tinfoil/&do=findComment&comment=7757784

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/143573-nennymoans-and-merlings-more-patchface-tinfoil/&do=findComment&comment=7754909

While Patchface has a different color scheme (green and red), there is still the 'patched,' 'mottled,' 'dappled' and 'piebald' pattern relating Patchface, the Damphair and his drowned men, the Children of the Forest and Bloodraven respectively (and others who wear motley or patched-together outfits like Tyrion after his own near-drowning experience).  The 'mottling' relates to 'motley' and thereby to fools, and another of Patchface's cryptic prophecies, 'clever bird, clever man, clever fool'.

Personally, I think this drowning or near-drowning motif in the end relates to greenseers and greenseeing -- they are the clever birds, men and fools who sacrifice themselves (and others) for power.  Previously, I've identified the symbolic connection between drowning and greenseeing -- giving rise to the 'green sea'='green see' pun -- which is how I have interpreted the 'under the sea' prefacing each of Patchface's utterances.  A 'near-death' experience, particularly 'near-drowning,' either literal or figurative, followed by spiritual enlightenment as seems to have occurred for a number of characters is not so different symbolically, if you think about it, from being 'half-dead,' 'undead,' 'half corpse-half tree,' like the archetypal figure Odin sacrificed on the tree of life Yggdrasil in order to acquire higher knowledge etc.  If you want to read more about it, it's in my 'nennymoan' musings (I think you have the link?); if you don't want to read the whole thing, check under the paragraph 'Drowning as a metaphor for greenseeing' and also 'Bran's phenomenology of greenseeing.'  The Grey King and his entourage for example is reminiscent of all of the above figures I've mentioned (the robes or gowns or tapestries of 'woven silver seaweed' -- which Aeron also sports -- ,are the equivalent of the motley, and the weirwood crown the equivalent of the jester's cap with it's ringing bells; in Aeron's case he has a driftwood cudgel in place of the crown or cap, alluding to the weirwood).

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i just realized you know who else is similar to Aeron is Davos. Nearly drowning and Davos going to the merman' court at Whitehabor is similar to the Watery halls of the Drowned God. The inversion there is Aeron was caused to drown by Stannis's Fury. Davos drowned in service of Stannis's fury. 

Nice!  You're referring to Stannis's ship called 'Fury,' in addition to the Baratheon motto being 'Ours is the fury'?

I love that passage where Davos visits the Merman's court.  It's suffused with water and fish imagery; even the walls are painted to resemble the sea, so that symbolically the proceedings are taking place in a kind of underworld -- 'under the sea'!  There are so many parallels to the Grey King's court too.

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A Dance with Dragons - Davos III

Two marble mermen flanked his lordship's court, Fishfoot's smaller cousins. As the guards threw open the doors, a herald slammed the butt of his staff against an old plank floor. "Ser Davos of House Seaworth," he called in a ringing voice.

As many times as he had visited White Harbor, Davos had never set foot inside the New Castle, much less the Merman's Court. Its walls and floor and ceiling were made of wooden planks notched cunningly together and decorated with all the creatures of the sea. As they approached the dais, Davos trod on painted crabs and clams and starfish, half-hidden amongst twisting black fronds of seaweed and the bones of drowned sailors. On the walls to either side, pale sharks prowled painted blue-green depths, whilst eels and octopods slithered amongst rocks and sunken ships. Shoals of herring and great codfish swam between the tall arched windows. Higher up, near where the old fishing nets drooped down from the rafters, the surface of the sea had been depicted. To his right a war galley stroked serene against the rising sun; to his left, a battered old cog raced before a storm, her sails in rags. Behind the dais a kraken and grey leviathan were locked in battle beneath the painted waves.

 

 

Edited by ravenous reader

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Just brainstorming more parallels/inversions between Robert Arryn and Aeron Damphair and the theme of Prophet.  Not sure what it means yet, but I'm kicking it around.

1)  The uncut, long hair of an ascetic or hermit.  I think Damphair does fit that description as well as Prophet.  There's another example of an an ascetic/hermit that is also a prophet is the one that lived on the Fingers who hadn't washed in "forty years" (one could assume he probably didn't get haircuts either).  He prophecized Petyr becoming a "great man" to his father.  Robert's hair has been allowed to grow and grow since Lysa died.  The Eyrie is isolated, so Robert kinda lives like a hermit, preferring to keep to his own tiny household.   

2)  The dislike of maesters, especially their incompetency.  Robert has a clear dislike for Maester Colemon.  His treatments actually don't help Robert get any better and he's going along with this whole sweetsleep business like a weak-willed, mealy-mouth doormat.  So there might be the common theme of incompetent medicine killing the patient... maybe.  

3)  The dislike of horses/mules, but uses them out of necessity coming up and down from the Eyrie.  Might be for different reasons given.  Robert doesn't like the smell and the trip is frightening.  This might reflect a symbolic theme I'm thinking about, which I'll get to eventually.  

4)  There seems to be a mirror inversion between the Eyrie's halls and the Drowned God's halls.  There's sky and sea, both great expanses of blue, but opposites.  Falcons belong in the air and drowned men / krakens below the sea.  Neither are land creatures maybe hence the aversion to riding horses/mules.  They wear the respective colors of their elements.  Robert often wears sky blue and Aeron wears sea colors.   

5)  Both are supposed to be weak, but in different ways.  Aeron says he was weak in character, drinking, partying, while Balon was out doing glorious Ironborn things.  Then he nearly died by drowning and was reborn, dedicated to the Drowned God.  Robert is weak in body, but I don't think like Robin Greyjoy.  He actually seems to be growing more perceptive about his situation (if you read the Alayne TWOW sample).  Funny how urinating is a feature of their stories.  Aeron used to perform pissing stunts to prove his manhood in an immature kind of way.  Robert sometimes pisses himself, but it's a result of his "shaking sickness" and it's proof of his physical weakness.  

 

6)  I'm a subscriber to the theory of an avalanche in the Eyrie killing many people.  Sweetrobin may be one of them.  There's definitely recurring patterns of near-death experience to become a prophet all over the place.  Being buried under snow is akin to drowning by water, like Aeron and Patchface.  Should Robert survive a near-death experience like that, would he then meet the criteria of a prophet? I have my suspicions about that kid! :ph34r:                       

                    

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1 hour ago, ravenous reader said:

Nice!  You're referring to Stannis's ship called 'Fury,' in addition to the Baratheon motto being 'Ours is the fury'?

Yup, I am.

2 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

Davos visits the Merman's court

That is a beautiful scene. I just imagine that the merman's court is awe inspiring. 

Aside from everyone at the Merman's court, the one that interests me the most is Marlon Manderly, Lord Manderly's cousin whose armor has the Merling King's Helm and moving seaweed. The Battle of the Blackwater was ruined by the ship Swordfish (House Bar Emmon) which is just another name for a Marlin attacking the galley filled with Wild Fire. And Davos was stranded on the spears of the Merling King. Marlon Manderly's description sounds like the Grey King. 

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16 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

While Patchface has a different color scheme (green and red), there is still the 'patched,' 'mottled,' 'dappled' and 'piebald' pattern relating Patchface, the Damphair and his drowned men, the Children of the Forest and Bloodraven respectively (and others who wear motley or patched-together outfits like Tyrion after his own near-drowning experience).  The 'mottling' relates to 'motley' and thereby to fools, and another of Patchface's cryptic prophecies, 'clever bird, clever man, clever fool'.

Personally, I think this drowning or near-drowning motif in the end relates to greenseers and greenseeing -- they are the clever birds, men and fools who sacrifice themselves (and others) for power.  Previously, I've identified the symbolic connection between drowning and greenseeing -- giving rise to the 'green sea'='green see' pun -- which is how I have interpreted the 'under the sea' prefacing each of Patchface's utterances.  A 'near-death' experience, particularly 'near-drowning,' either literal or figurative, followed by spiritual enlightenment as seems to have occurred for a number of characters is not so different symbolically, if you think about it, from being 'half-dead,' 'undead,' 'half corpse-half tree,' like the archetypal figure Odin sacrificed on the tree of life Yggdrasil in order to acquire higher knowledge etc.

I can't help but think about some other characters with the mottling, dappled, spotting...like Wenda the White Fawn. Fawns are dappled, and at the risk of getting ahead of this particular chapter I had made some connections between Wenda's spots and drowning in my essay on The Queenmaker chapter. 

Recall Cersei's childhood friend, Melara. Melara Hetherspoon was eleven years old when she died. She was slender and pretty, though she had freckles. Cersei remembers her as “healthy as a little horse”, which could be a symbolic connection to Lyanna. She was said to be bold, bolder than Jeyne Farman who fled when the three went to hear their futures from Maggy the Frog. Jeyne was terrified when Maggy opened her eyes to greet the visitors. Running away likely saved her life. Maggy told Melara that her death was close. Many years later, Cersei told Taena of Myr that Maggy’s prophecy was true, because Melara drowned in a well. Reading between the lines, IMO, Cersei may be the one that drowned Melara as a knee-jerk reaction to being afraid of Maggy the Frog's prophecy. Maybe by killing Melara she was symbolically killing the prophecy?

The Lannisters have "drowning" and "wells" in their heritage. Tywin of course if famous for drowning the Reynes of Castamere by blocking the entrances to their subterranean home and diverting a stream in order to drown everyone inside. And I have to say the evidence points to Lann the Clever securing Casterly Rock in the same manner. 

Before I circle back to Wenda, there's another spotted character, Sylva Santagar, known as Spotted Sylva, and “the Lyseni”. Sylva suggests the reason why the Golden Company broke their contract was because the Lyseni bought them off. “Clever Lyseni,” Drey says, “Clever, craven Lyseni.” This phrasing is very similar to Patchface's, 'clever bird, clever man, clever fool'.

Sylva Santagar is the heir of Ser Symon Santagar, the Knight of the Spottswood. Her nickname “Spotted” is from her freckles and also because she’s heir to Spottswood. After the Myrcella conspiracy plot is foiled, she was captured and later betrothed to the aged Lord Eldon of Estermont and sent to Greenstone to marry. Recall old Lord Estermont was one of the insulting matches Prince Doran proposed to Arianne.

Wenda the White Fawn was said to be a member of the Kingswood Brotherhood which was a band of outlaws famous for kidnapping nobles and holding them for hostage. They are blamed for attacking Princess Elia and for injuring Ser Gerold Hightower. Merrett Frey, who was branded (on his butt I might add) by Wenda, referred to her as "that poxy bitch", which could just be insulting name calling or it could mean she was sick with red spots or had scars from some type of pox. Red spots can be a deadly disease to adults, and when it's mentioned in the same chapter as when Ser Arys brings Myrcella to a well to meet up with Arianne and friends, it emphasizes the connection between spots, wells, and death.

 

16 hours ago, ravenous reader said:

As many times as he had visited White Harbor, Davos had never set foot inside the New Castle, much less the Merman's Court. Its walls and floor and ceiling were made of wooden planks notched cunningly together and decorated with all the creatures of the sea. As they approached the dais, Davos trod on painted crabs and clams and starfish, half-hidden amongst twisting black fronds of seaweed and the bones of drowned sailors. On the walls to either side, pale sharks prowled painted blue-green depths, whilst eels and octopods slithered amongst rocks and sunken ships. Shoals of herring and great codfish swam between the tall arched windows. Higher up, near where the old fishing nets drooped down from the rafters, the surface of the sea had been depicted. To his right a war galley stroked serene against the rising sun; to his left, a battered old cog raced before a storm, her sails in rags. Behind the dais a kraken and grey leviathan were locked in battle beneath the painted waves.

I agree with PKJane. Wouldn't this be a beautiful room to walk into! Especially if there were some way to have dappled reflections from water shining up upon the sides of the room or on the ceiling.

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On 1/15/2017 at 8:02 AM, Feather Crystal said:

Sylva Santagar is the heir of Ser Symon Santagar, the Knight of the Spottswood. Her nickname “Spotted” is from her freckles and also because she’s heir to Spottswood. After the Myrcella conspiracy plot is foiled, she was captured and later betrothed to the aged Lord Eldon of Estermont and sent to Greenstone to marry. Recall old Lord Estermont was one of the insulting matches Prince Doran proposed to Arianne.

Lord Estermont given his age would probably be related to Stannis, Robert, and Renly. Plus his sigil is a green turtle. The turtle has always been a symbol of immortality. And a Lord of Greenstone marrying a spotted woman (I love that her last name is Santa-gar as LmL pointed out a while ago that Santa is a sanitized version of the wild man of the woods. I bet the name should be read as Santa-Garth) echoes the Bloodstone emperor marrying the tiger woman as the Bloodstone is a green and red stone and House Santagar's sigil is a spotted cat. 

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