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Book readers, Which character do you miss the most in the show?


khal drogon

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On Wednesday, January 18, 2017 at 6:11 AM, Dragon in the North said:

You can't be too shocked. From what I've seen, the reason AFFC/ADWD are considered subpar compared to their predecessors is because many readers found the characters introduced in those books to be weak and uninteresting. And D&D are far from infallible. I wish Euron had also been cut and they simply used Balon to fulfill his role. I loved the actor and consider Balon to bemore interesting.

Those characters are not at all subpar. They didn't spark the same interest as older characters because they didn't do much and we learnt a very little of them. For example there is a huge spike in interest on Euron after the recently released chapter and I believe it will be true for most of the newer characters.

And Balon can never fulfill Euron's rule. A large part of Euron's character lies in his mystery. Euron is meant to be a threat to whole Westeros which cannot be fulfilled by a dumb king who chose to raid the North. They are two very different individuals.

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5 hours ago, khal drogon said:

Those characters are not at all subpar. They didn't spark the same interest as older characters because they didn't do much and we learnt a very little of them. For example there is a huge spike in interest on Euron after the recently released chapter and I believe it will be true for most of the newer characters.

And Balon can never fulfill Euron's rule. A large part of Euron's character lies in his mystery. Euron is meant to be a threat to whole Westeros which cannot be fulfilled by a dumb king who chose to raid the North. They are two very different individuals.

They were subpar to me, and the bolded is a big part of the problem. Martin didn't flesh them out enough and give them enough depth, so they came across as boring and uninteresting. In AGOT, I fell in love with Arya Stark and Jon Snow after their first chapter together. None of the characters from AFFC/ADWD sparked that type of feeling.

I'm not too interested in the mystery surrounding Euron, to be honest. He appears to be very cartoony to me. I prefer villains who are more complex and subtle, like Tywin and Roose. I've enjoyed the relationship Balon has had with both his children and thought he was one of the highlights in season 2. His scene with Yara in season 6 was really great, too.

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On Wednesday, January 25, 2017 at 7:27 AM, Dragon in the North said:

They were subpar to me, and the bolded is a big part of the problem. Martin didn't flesh them out enough and give them enough depth, so they came across as boring and uninteresting. In AGOT, I fell in love with Arya Stark and Jon Snow after their first chapter together. None of the characters from AFFC/ADWD sparked that type of feeling.

I'm not too interested in the mystery surrounding Euron, to be honest. He appears to be very cartoony to me. I prefer villains who are more complex and subtle, like Tywin and Roose. I've enjoyed the relationship Balon has had with both his children and thought he was one of the highlights in season 2. His scene with Yara in season 6 was really great, too

What is funny is I find Roose more cartoony. But coming to the topic I feel Martin did flesh them out but the lack of familiarity and the disconnect they have with the popular characters made people not interested in them. Also he can't do much in very few chapters. All those new POVs had max 4 chapters except Cersei and Brienne. And I would argue the repetitive nature and unwanted fluff made Brienne POVs boring not because she is in anyway subpar. Barristan POVs are some of the most action packed chapters in the entire series. Arianne, Connington and Aeron are our introduction to the next act of the books. It is a bit premature to call them subpar. It took me multiple chapters to appreciate Sansa and Jon. It doesn't mean they are subpar characters. 

And more fleshed out doesn't mean more interesting. I find Wyman Manderly less fleshed out than Aeron Greyjoy but people would be more interested in the first.

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  • 3 months later...
On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 7:41 PM, A Ghost of Someone said:

The real Sansa and Jaime.

 

On ‎1‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 5:30 PM, CaptainTheo said:

Ellaria Sand.

Amen a thousand times over, book Jaime instead of mid S4-present Jaime is the biggest damnation, even more so than making Tyrion a Saint and making Stannis a demon at the end of S5.  If Ellaria was like she was in the books the whole Doran/Sand Snakes plot could have been more true to the books and significantly improved.

Of characters who are essentially not present, my top 3 for inclusion would be Val, Strong Belwas, and Jeyne Poole.

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21 minutes ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

 

Amen a thousand times over, book Jaime instead of mid S4-present Jaime is the biggest damnation, even more so than making Tyrion a Saint and making Stannis a demon at the end of S5.  If Ellaria was like she was in the books the whole Doran/Sand Snakes plot could have been more true to the books and significantly improved.

Of characters who are essentially not present, my top 3 for inclusion would be Val, Strong Belwas, and Jeyne Poole.

They way the swapped out Sansa and Jeyne Poole and also made Sansa a complete submissive, in many ways white washes Littlefinger which is infuriating. The Story of Jeyne Poole and her suffering is really at the hands of Littlefinger because as she tells theon and the state of her body before her wedding to Ramsay, she was basically whipped beaten and raped as part of her training under Littlefinger (with Cersei's blessing) in order to lean how to "please" a man. Her story is horrific but it is absolutely clear as to what kind of person Littlefinger is and that he has been doing that to a great many of his sex slaves that populate his brothels.

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41 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

They way the swapped out Sansa and Jeyne Poole and also made Sansa a complete submissive, in many ways white washes Littlefinger which is infuriating. The Story of Jeyne Poole and her suffering is really at the hands of Littlefinger because as she tells theon and the state of her body before her wedding to Ramsay, she was basically whipped beaten and raped as part of her training under Littlefinger (with Cersei's blessing) in order to lean how to "please" a man. Her story is horrific but it is absolutely clear as to what kind of person Littlefinger is and that he has been doing that to a great many of his sex slaves that populate his brothels.

I've only read the books once and failed to make that connection about what happened to Jeyne Poole between when Jaime sees her as she is leaving KL and when she gets to Winterfell.  Chilling.  Littlefinger is much more of a monster than I really considered.  Great insight, thanks!

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1 hour ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

I've only read the books once and failed to make that connection about what happened to Jeyne Poole between when Jaime sees her as she is leaving KL and when she gets to Winterfell.  Chilling.  Littlefinger is much more of a monster than I really considered.  Great insight, thanks!

Other than Cersei who at least in the books, is villain #1 of characters alive when the series starts, LF comes in a close # 2 as far as I can see.

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On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:41 PM, Dragon in the North said:

You can't be too shocked. From what I've seen, the reason AFFC/ADWD are considered subpar compared to their predecessors is because many readers found the characters introduced in those books to be weak and uninteresting. And D&D are far from infallible. I wish Euron had also been cut and they simply used Balon to fulfill his role. I loved the actor and consider Balon to bemore interesting.

Euron and Balon are not even close to being the same type of character. This doesn't make sense.

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50 minutes ago, Sea Dragon said:

Euron and Balon are not even close to being the same type of character. This doesn't make sense.

By taking away Dragonbinder, they've changed Euron's character. I could see Balon also joining Cersei in her fight against Danerys in exchanger for ironborn independence from the Seven Kingdoms. The only thing that would need to be rewritten is Yara and Theon. They would either stay by their father's side, or join Danerys and turn against their father for a different reason.

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6 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

 

Amen a thousand times over, book Jaime instead of mid S4-present Jaime is the biggest damnation, even more so than making Tyrion a Saint and making Stannis a demon at the end of S5.  If Ellaria was like she was in the books the whole Doran/Sand Snakes plot could have been more true to the books and significantly improved.

Of characters who are essentially not present, my top 3 for inclusion would be Val, Strong Belwas, and Jeyne Poole.

I've almost finished watching the four-hour YouTube video called "Why Dorne Failed in GoT" and the author provides so many great insights on why this happened. Even D&D admitted that Ellaria in season #4 was a completely different character to "Indira Varma dressed up to look like Ellaria" in seasons #5 and #6; their whole point of Dorne being to stunt-cast Varma as if she were some incredible actress.

I miss the real Sansa as well. I really liked her in the earlier seasons, even if even then she somewhat deviated from her book counterpart.

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Lady Stonehart

Val

Arianne Martell

Vargo Hoat

Aegon(young griff)

Jeyne Poole

Jeyne Westerling

The real Arya, Jon, Sand Snakes, Sansa (i really hate how they were portrayed in the show, can you tell)

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