Jon's Queen Consort

Jon and Val compendium.

16 posts in this topic

This is a thread where we can collect all foreshadowing and clues from the books that point to Jon and Val ending up together for reasons that further the plot of the main story.

This thread is not for the debate of theories brought together here, which are based on text, SSM's, and interviews; it is only here to list clues and foreshadowing.

There are several other threads in the General section of the forum that are for debate purposes. We also invite you to link us all the theories that you feel deserve to be included, as also to give us feedback of what we might have missed.

 

Quote

Val stood beside him, tall and fair. They had crowned her with a simple circlet of dark bronze, yet she looked more regal in bronze than Stannis did in gold.

Quote

“Did you follow me as well?” Jon reached to shoo the bird away but ended up stroking its feathers. The raven cocked its eye at him. “Snow,” it muttered, bobbing its head knowingly. Then Ghost emerged from between two trees, with Val beside him.

They look as though they belong together. Val was clad all in white; white woolen breeches tucked into high boots of bleached white leather, white bearskin cloak pinned at the shoulder with a carved weirwood face, white tunic with bone fastenings. Her breath was white as well … but her eyes were blue, her long braid the color of dark honey, her cheeks flushed red from the cold. It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely

Quote

You have my word, Lord Snow. I will be a proper wildling princess for your queen.

Quote

Val kissed him lightly on the cheek. "You have my thanks Lord Snow. For the half-blind horse, the salt cod, the free air. For hope." Their breath mingled, a white mist in the air.

 

 

Edited by Jon's Queen Consort

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aah, I love Val.

I love Val's flirt with Jon. Even Jon clumsily flirts back. Jon's got serious hots for this gal but he... er... knows nothing. About flirting, or Val or anything.

I'll probably abstain from commenting on this thread from now on, as it seems to be made for Jon x Val shippers, and dissenters will get short shirft and their opinions will not be tolerated.

Carry on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, talvikorppi said:

Aah, I love Val.

I love Val's flirt with Jon. Even Jon clumsily flirts back. Jon's got serious hots for this gal but he... er... knows nothing. About flirting, or Val or anything.

I'll probably abstain from commenting on this thread from now on, as it seems to be made for Jon x Val shippers, and dissenters will get short shirft and their opinions will not be tolerated.

Carry on.

The thread that you can discuss about about Jon and Val ship is 

this is just a list.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aah, pardons, I misunderstood. I hope my inane remarks won't spoil your endeavour. Sorry.

Edited by talvikorppi
stupidity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think this is a "shipping" thread at all. Shipping, by definition, is based on fan-fiction with a reader's personal interest as the main factor, not what is consistent within the story.

 

What makes me think Jon and Val need each other... well, many things, but to start, the Pink Letter. Whoever wrote the letter, whether it be Ramsay, Stannis, Mance, or Moon Boy, they see long term value in her.

  • I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want his wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.

Whoever the author is, they want Val (and baby Aemon Steelsong and/or Monster). Why? Well, because we learn this from about Stannis...

  • Sam reddened. King Stannis had plans for Val, he knew; she was the mortar with which he meant to seal the peace between the northmen and the free folk. "I don't have time for archery today, I need to go see Jon."

If Val was a "throw away" character, then I don't see how George would have sent her to carry out a rather large mission that has a direct impact on the greater part of the story. Jon (George) sent her out to gather the lost wildlings, and she did, and she succeeded and returned on time... with Ghost at her side!!!!:wub:  (as mentioned above)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Jon's Queen Consort  I was unsure whether to send these to you first...

Multi-part clues

I would need to steal her if I wanted her love, but she might give me children. I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall.... ASoS Jon XII (early in the chapter)

Jon chanced to look up and saw Val standing in her tower window. I'm sorry, he thought. I'm not the man to steal you out of there. ...ASoS Jon XII (late in the chapter)

(I'm sorry can be taken two ways : an apology to the captive Val, or sorry for himself.. either, or both simultaneously)

 

“You broke the heart of the wildling princess, Slayer,” said Pyp. Of late, Val had taken to watching them from the window of her chamber in the King’s Tower. “She was looking for you.” 
“She was not! Don’t say that!” Sam had only spoken to Val twice, when Maester Aemon called upon her to make sure the babes were healthy. The princess was so pretty that he oft found himself stammering and blushing in her presence. 
“Why not?” asked Pyp. “She wants to have your children. Maybe we should call you Sam the Seducer.”
 ...AFFC , Samwell I

and after a brief further conversation, it continues...

Grenn agreed. “His (Jon's) duties don’t keep him from the yard. More days than not, he’s out there fighting someone.” 
That was true, Sam had to admit. Once, when Jon came to consult with Maester Aemon, Sam had asked him why he spent so much time at swordplay
. ...AFFC, Samwell I

(Val is actually watching the practice yard for Jon..she may already want have his children..or that could be foreshadowing of things to come. .. I could suggest a bit of risque foreshadowing about "so much time at swordplay" , but I leave that up to you.)

 

Wolves and women wed for life,” Haggon often said. “You take one, that’s a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you’re part of him. ...ADWD, Prologue

Ghost was part of him. ...ADWD, Jon III

Then Ghost emerged from between two trees, with Val beside him.
They look as though they belong together.
 ...ADWD, Jon XI

( Haggon equates wolves with women and describes the warg  bond and equates it with marriage. Later Jon verifies his bond with Ghost ... Val and Ghost look as though they belong together ..and Jon is part of Ghost.  Wolves and women... Take = steal..):rolleyes::D:D

Edited by bemused

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with @The Fattest Leech. Stannis, regardless of whether you believe he wrote the pink letter or not, seems to want to see them together. He wants Jon as his loyal Lord of Winterfell, a son of Eddard Stark to rally the North to his cause etc. And he has plans for Val, as Sam reveals, to be the mortar that seals a peace between the North and the Freefolk, which obviously means ha wants Val to marry an important northern lord. No house is more important in the North than House Stark. So Stannis, a Jon/Val shipper, confirmed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Further clues to the Val / Wolf / Jon connections and an addition :

Keep in mind there are a number of clues that hint at an innate (magical) connection between Jon and the Wall. Perhaps the most obvious - Jon Snow could see his own reflection dimly inside the icy walls. ...ADWD, Jon X
( These are the walls of Cregan's ice cell, which is carved into The Wall. So Jon is reflected inside the Wall itself.. Jon is part of Ghost, Ghost is part of Jon.. so with the Wall. When the wildlings swear to Jon, they are (magically speaking) in effect swearing to the Wall.)

Looking back at ADWD, Jon III...

Val stood on the tower roof, gazing up at the Wall. 
(We can already deduce that she has been gazing at Jon in the yard from AFFC, Sam I)

Moving on in the chapter..

She looks lonely, Jon thought. Lonely, and lovely. ..<snip>...
Lonely and lovely and lethal, Jon Snow reflected, and I might have had her. Her, and Winterfell, and my lord father’s name. Instead he had chosen a black cloak and a wall of ice.

(Lonely, lovely and lethal.. words we might use to describe a (lone) wolf, evokes Haggon's woman/wolf similarity)

And still  later... I should be walking the ice. The Wall is mine

Near the end of the chapter comes ..."Ghost is part of me" as mentioned above..

(so we may need to extend thoughts of "Jon,Ghost and Val belong together" to .. "Jon, Ghost, Val and the magic of the Wall belong together" )

ETA : I'm taking my thoughts about Stannis to the discussion thread.

Edited by bemused

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stannis deduces that Jon is fond of Val, when Jon asks him if Val may be permitted to take the babe to see Mance. 

I doubt Stannis would just decide Jon is fond of her if there were not some tell in his face or mannerisms when he talks about her. It would be a bit random to just say, oh you like this person, upon the mere mention of a favour they have asked you. 

Stannis making this statement implies that Jon gave some hint in his face of his feelings for Val. 

I'll have more but I remember thinking aye up! at that one. It's an early clue and a subtle one.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's bit more... From ASoS, Jon X.. Tormund to Jon : ..."That Longspear stole me daughter. Munda, me little autumn apple. Took her right out o' my tent with all four o' her brothers about. Toregg slept through it, the great lout, .."

When we come to ADWD, Jon III...  Tormund to Jon : ".. Best steal her quick, before Toregg wakes up and takes her first.”

(So this is not a suggestion to steal; the theft is already underway and Jon best hurry while Toregg is, once again, asleep.. I think this puts Toregg in his proper perspective. He's not really a rival.)

A well known one... In their conversation on the ride back Jon informs Val he has removed her from the Kings tower and had the top floor of Hardin's tower (his old digs) made ready for her. She must remain a captive, but symbolically, now his captive , not Stannis'.

Consider what the following visuals may mean to the free folk : First Val appears with Ghost, looking "as though they belong together"... Then, artfully placed throughout the rest of the chapter...

Jon mounted his own horse.
Val fell in beside him.

<snip>..conversation
Tormund’s wildlings watched them pass, peering out from tents and lean-tos beneath leafless
trees.

<snip> ..more conversation

They rode the rest of the way in silence, Ghost loping at their heels.

(This displays willingness on Val's part, while Ghost loping at their heels paints the picture of a couple.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In her Nymeria thread The Fattest Leach pointed out that Jon is an Odin character, and we have also previously surmised that Val is a Volva character. Well, who is the ultimate volva?  Freya. And who is Freya really? Frigg, and Frigg is Odin's wife. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we see Jon has given Val guards of his own men, again reiterating the theme that he has stolen her.

 

Quote

Val waited by the gate in the predawn cold, wrapped up in a bearskin cloak so large it might well have fit Sam. Beside her was a garron, saddled and bridled, a shaggy grey with one white eye. Mully and Dolorous Edd stood with her, a pair of unlikely guards. Their breath frosted in the cold black air.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And when she returns. 

Quote
They look as though they belong together. Val was clad all in white; white woolen breeches tucked into high boots of bleached white leather, white bearskin cloak pinned at the shoulder with a carved weirwood face, white tunic with bone fastenings. Her breath was white as well … but her eyes were blue, her long braid the color of dark honey, her cheeks flushed red from the cold. It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely.
"Have you been trying to steal my wolf?" he asked her.
3

He asks if she has been trying to steal his wolf, right after that desirous description of her. ghost is Jon, this is him saying are you trying to steal me? as in. He wants her. 

During her time away from him Jon thinks this too. in response to Axell Florent boasting of being after Val, and WF too. 

Quote

If the bastard had wanted Val, all he had to do was ask for her.

He's basically saying all he has to do is ask. If he wants her. Now this is inferring asking Stannis. and she and WF both would be his. but as Jon has noted before anyone who wants Val had best be wanted by her too, or else he'll find his throat slit.  So with that knowledge, who would he have to ask? It implies he knows he can have her because she wants him too. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the things I find fascinating about Jon and Val's relationship is that it's an iceberg.  There are a lot of moments between the two that the readers don't see or only get a brief reference to.  Even though these moments (which are not necessarily flirty or romantic moments) happen mostly off page, I think they are just as important to developing their relationship as the moments we do get to witness  and expect these moments to come to the forefront as their relationship continues.  Examples include:

  • Jon staying with Val and Dalla during the birth of Dalla's son, Dalla's death and Jon taking them back to Castle Black. (I consider this particularly important as I suspect Jon's actions at this time became the foundation from where Val's feelings for him grew.)
  • The baby swap discussions
  • The times Jon sees Val for counsel in regards to the Free Folk (IIRC Jon mentions he has gone to see Val for counsel on the subject on more than one occasion.)
  • Jon overhears Val singing to Monster (Like mother like son, it seems Jon is also attracted to singers given how Ygritte "sang in a low husky voice that stirred him.") 
  • Jon's decision making process that led to him asking Val to serve as an envoy to Tormund as well their discussions about it before Jon VIII, ADWD. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Harlaw's Book the Sequel

I think you make a very good point here. The author takes the time to tell us that Jon & Val have had interactions which we have not been privy to. And I think that especially the time in the tent, experiencing birth is a VERY emotional, and bonding experience. Even if you are not the person birthing or the child's father.  The fact Jon was there tells us he and Val have gone through an extremely bonding experience.   Add to the euphoria everyone in the room experiences at a birth, and the high levels of Oxytocin in the air we then have the moment of grief and horror as Dalla dies.  Experiencing a death together is also an extremely bonding experience.  And it is evident that after these events Jon goes to Val again and again for council.  

I think from these left out scenes we can actually garner a fair bit of information. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.