Is Lightbringer (the first) Valyrian steel?

[Davjos]

There has been a lot of debating going on with regards to Lightbringer. I wanted to give my two little cents in a new thread. If this theory has been posted before, please link the original threads/point this out to me. I don't want to 'steal' someone else's idea. This idea I had for a short while has recently been mentioned by Secrets of the Citadel (by far the best ASOIAF Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqROIhneltpZKvFzuB3pAiA).

 

I think Lightbringer is not necessary a specific sword, I think it was the first Valyrian sword known to Westeros. It was not as unique, not AS magical. It has been subject to becoming a sort of legend, to which some 'magical' attributes have been added by singers and dubious historians. I don't really think it glowed and shone light, but that is not really that important. The biggest flaw of this theory is of course the fact that about both Lightbringer and Valyrian steel not much is known. I just wanted to put this possibility forward. 

Another flaw might be that to believe this theory we have to assume that Valyrian Steel is not a Valyrian invention, but instead is first made known to the world, used on a greater skill and exported and 'industrialized' to some small degree by the Valyrians.

Why is this possible: 
1. The Long Night was approximately 8000 years ago (although this is not certain at all). Valyria was founded approx. 5000 years ago. Both these records are not certain, but the founding of Valyria should be more common knowledge because of the Targaeryans. Dragons are rumored to be a lot older than Valyria and they were introduced to already tamed dragons, possibly from Asshai. So although Valyria might not have been around during the Long Night (of which the effects were severely felt in Essos with the freezing of the mouth of the Mother Royne etc.) , all that is probably necessary for forging the steel was around at the time: dragons and blood magic. 

2. The Night Watch records at Castle Black mentions dragonsteel. We all assume just like Sam and Jon that this is Valyrian Steel. This is probably as a weapon against the Others. The only time the Others have been fought before is the Long Night. In the show it is of course shown that Valyrian Steel is deadly to the Others, and I think the same is true in the books. 

3. Azor Ahai forged Lightbringer by smelting it at extremely high temperatures(higher than the previous two attempts) and working at it for apparently a 100 days. This long process points to the folding the steel, causing the ripples seen in Valyrian steel. After this the blade was tempered in the heart of Nissa Nissa, pointing at blood magic. Valyrian steel is forged using magic according to everybody on Planetos talking about it. We know blood magic and dragons are related. The hatching of Dany's dragons required a human sacrifice. Valyrian steel is speculated to be forged in dragon fire. This just feels all to connected to me. Dragons, human sacrifice and blood magic seem to be connected, causing me to think the legend of Lightbringer points to the process needed to forge Valyrian Steel. 

So both Lightbringer and Valyrian steel probably require blood magic to forge/temper, required a long process and high temperatures(possibly dragon fire) to forge, both are harmful to the Others. So I think the Lightbringer mystical legendary story is almost an instruction on forging Valyrian steel, using human sacrifice and the Last Hero was the first person to wield Valyrian Steel in Westeros, under a different name (Light in Lightbringer might refer to Valyrians steel low weight). The story of the Last Hero has evolved from history to legend and the forging of Lightbringer from instruction manual to myth

[The Dew]

Brilliant and well connected. I am definitely not the expert to say if this theory has been mentioned in the past, but it is brilliant. 

[King Ragnar]

Very nice analysis indeed. It seems so obvious how you put it.

Count me in as a believer.

[Dorian Martell's son]

This is far better than "Dawn=Lightbringer waiting to be turned on by someone" 

[Curled Finger]

Let me start with a big Amen to The Secrets of the Citadel.   She really does a great job.  Definitely in my top 3.  You may well be on to something here.   It's true Valyrian Steel wasn't available at the time we are told The Long Night occurred.   Keep in mind that Valyrian Steel as we know it is dark.   It doesn't shine or sparkle.   Caggo's arakh and Orphan-Maker are actually black blades.   Dawn is said to be the color of milkglass, or murky white for lack of a better way to describe it.   I've been told forever that Dawn is 10,000 years old but the only real date of reference we get is in AWOIAF where it says Dawn is at least 2,000 years old.   I can't cite the 10,000 years date anywhere.   Still, at least 2,000 years old is older than any of the Valyrian Steel swords in Westeros, excepting Truth, Blackfyre and Dark Sister.   These are foreign blades and may date back to the dawn of Valyria for all we know.   Our oldest Westerosi blade is Longclaw, to the best of my knowledge, which is said to be 500 years old.   The point I'm trying to make is that I think real Valyrian Steel is a relatively new and dead thing.   Dawn isn't Valyrian Steel, it's something else.   It's said to be forged from the heart of a meteor; again I can't cite it.   But it's color alone should indicate that it isn't VS.   The key to getting on board with your ideas, @Ethelarion, is in the term Dragon Steel.   If Dawn really does date back to 10,000 years it would predate the Long Night and may well be this antiquated Dragon Steel.   That would turn all us sword geeks on our heads, but the more I dig the more I am thinking Dawn is the ancient weapon.   We don't know how one forges material extracted from the heart of a meteor, but both an ancient sword and castle were built with this stuff.   Nothing says it wasn't forged in precisely the way we are told Lightbringer was made.

This is the same argument I spoke out loud while viewing that episode.  If nothing else the concept of duality in ASOAIF is not lost on me.   We've got 12 dark swords and 1 light sword.   We have a real flaming sword and a fake flaming sword.  I am thinking Valyrian Steel is the counter to Dragon Steel, not the same thing.  For all it's worth.  

[Davjos]

Thanks for all the positive feedback!  

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Let me start with a big Amen to The Secrets of the Citadel.   She really does a great job.  Definitely in my top 3.  You may well be on to something here.   It's true Valyrian Steel wasn't available at the time we are told The Long Night occurred.   Keep in mind that Valyrian Steel as we know it is dark.   It doesn't shine or sparkle.   Caggo's arakh and Orphan-Maker are actually black blades.   Dawn is said to be the color of milkglass, or murky white for lack of a better way to describe it.   I've been told forever that Dawn is 10,000 years old but the only real date of reference we get is in AWOIAF where it says Dawn is at least 2,000 years old.   I can't cite the 10,000 years date anywhere.   Still, at least 2,000 years old is older than any of the Valyrian Steel swords in Westeros, excepting Truth, Blackfyre and Dark Sister.   These are foreign blades and may date back to the dawn of Valyria for all we know.   Our oldest Westerosi blade is Longclaw, to the best of my knowledge, which is said to be 500 years old.   The point I'm trying to make is that I think real Valyrian Steel is a relatively new and dead thing.   Dawn isn't Valyrian Steel, it's something else.   It's said to be forged from the heart of a meteor; again I can't cite it.   But it's color alone should indicate that it isn't VS.   The key to getting on board with your ideas, @Ethelarion, is in the term Dragon Steel.   If Dawn really does date back to 10,000 years it would predate the Long Night and may well be this antiquated Dragon Steel.   That would turn all us sword geeks on our heads, but the more I dig the more I am thinking Dawn is the ancient weapon.   We don't know how one forges material extracted from the heart of a meteor, but both an ancient sword and castle were built with this stuff.   Nothing says it wasn't forged in precisely the way we are told Lightbringer was made.

This is the same argument I spoke out loud while viewing that episode.  If nothing else the concept of duality in ASOAIF is not lost on me.   We've got 12 dark swords and 1 light sword.   We have a real flaming sword and a fake flaming sword.  I am thinking Valyrian Steel is the counter to Dragon Steel, not the same thing.  For all it's worth.  

First of all the historic event that was the Long Night has developed in a legend, a children's tale. I believe it's Bran(a child) that tells us readers that the Long Night was 8000 years ago. So this may not be as much of a fact. A history book tells us Dawn is at least 2000 old and we know the Valyrian Freehold started growing more than 5000 years ago. This was build on magic and dragons. Thats how they all started. You assuming that Dawn is 8000+ years old doesn't make my theory that the first type of steel sword we now know as Valyrian steel was forged during the Long Night any less possible.

I have to give you the fact that Lightbringer is told to glow in the fantasy stories while Valyrian Steel is dark. Firstly, the swords made from Ice had a glimmering red  so there's still some 'fire and/or blood' in the dark steel blades. Secondly it is known how unreliable Medeival 'singers history' was, with each singer trying to trump their competition. A cool-ass magical sword that defeated the Others and ended the Long Night in millennia of songs could have become a cool-ass-glowing red hot-flaming magical sword. Thirdly there is the possibility that the strength of fire based (or all) magic has been fading over thousands of years. Dragons once roamed all over Essos, but have continued to die out over the ages. The magic powers of Valyrian steel could have been fading too, slowely losing their glow and fire. 

Also, Dawn has litteraly nothing to do with dragons and clearly isn't steel. It would make no sense to name it Dragonsteel. Valyrian steel and Valyria is drowned in dragons and magic. I still think dragon/vulcanic fire and blood are needed to forge Valyrian steel. They had this from the start. Dragon+steel is Valyria. Also, we don't have any evidence for Dawn hurting the Others, while there is some for Valyrian steel. 

As I've read somewhere else. the Targ words are the fucking recipe: Fire and Blood. We almost certainly know there were used to forge Lightbringer. Dragons were probably around back then btw, but it might not even be needed, he could have used the Valyrian magical volcanos.

 

EDIT: sorry if I sound condescending or rude in any way that was not my intention at all. By typing this thread and reply I've started to convince myself.

 

[Curled Finger]

3 minutes ago, Ethelarion said:

Thanks for all the positive feedback!  

First of all the historic event that was the Long Night has developed in a legend, a children's tale. I believe it's Bran(a child) that tells us readers that the Long Night was 8000 years ago. So this may not be as much of a fact. A history book tells us Dawn is at least 2000 old and we know the Valyrian Freehold started growing more than 5000 years ago. This was build on magic and dragons. Thats how they all started. You assuming that Dawn is 8000+ years old doesn't make my theory that the first type of steel sword we now know as Valyrian steel was forged during the Long Night any less possible.

I have to give you the fact that Lightbringer is told to glow in the fantasy stories while Valyrian Steel is dark. Firstly, the swords made from Ice had a glimmering red  so there's still some 'fire and/or blood' in the dark steel blades. Secondly it is known how unreliable Medeival 'singers history' was, with each singer trying to trump their competition. A cool-ass magical sword that defeated the Others and ended the Long Night in millennia of songs could have become a cool-ass-glowing red hot-flaming magical sword. Thirdly there is the possibility that the strength of fire based (or all) magic has been fading over thousands of years. Dragons once roamed all over Essos, but have continued to die out over the ages. The magic powers of Valyrian steel could have been fading too, slowely losing their glow and fire. 

Also, Dawn has litteraly nothing to do with dragons and clearly isn't steel. It would make no sense to name it Dragonsteel. Valyrian steel and Valyria is drowned in dragons and magic. I still think dragon/vulcanic fire and blood are needed to forge Valyrian steel. They had this from the start. Dragon+steel is Valyria. Also, we don't have any evidence for Dawn hurting the Others, while there is some for Valyrian steel. 

As I've read somewhere else. the Targ words are the fucking recipe: Fire and Blood. We almost certainly know there were used to forge Lightbringer. Dragons were probably around back then btw.

 

 

I understand where you're coming from.  It would be helpful to have some real dates or at least dependable dates for everything, but all we have is guesses. From what I recall the World Book assumed that dragons were sighted in Westeros long before the Targs came over.   A good while back, but they were around.   I'm at a bit of a loss over the bolded as I'm not sure I'm following you with regard to blades changing color.  In truth, we don't know anything about Dawn, whether it was dragon flamed or this meteoric material is some form of steel or not.   Isn't white hot the hottest a flame can burn?  Let's reserve judgement on that one.   

I'm not trying to fight with you or give you a hard time, but what evidence do we have in support of Valyrian Steel having any effect on Others?   Dragon glass, sure, but none on Valyrian Steel that I recall.   All we have is Sam and Jon thinking maybe Dragon Steel is Valyrian Steel.  Have I forgotten something?   

[Davjos]

20 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

I understand where you're coming from.  It would be helpful to have some real dates or at least dependable dates for everything, but all we have is guesses. From what I recall the World Book assumed that dragons were sighted in Westeros long before the Targs came over.   A good while back, but they were around.   I'm at a bit of a loss over the bolded as I'm not sure I'm following you with regard to blades changing color.  In truth, we don't know anything about Dawn, whether it was dragon flamed or this meteoric material is some form of steel or not.   Isn't white hot the hottest a flame can burn?  Let's reserve judgement on that one.   

I'm not trying to fight with you or give you a hard time, but what evidence do we have in support of Valyrian Steel having any effect on Others?   Dragon glass, sure, but none on Valyrian Steel that I recall.   All we have is Sam and Jon thinking maybe Dragon Steel is Valyrian Steel.  Have I forgotten something?   

I understand you're not fighting me. It's all right buddy! I thought there was a little more than the dragonsteel in the books but apperently there isn't. So no evidence but I still doubt GRRM would allow his coolest unique fantasy, magic item to change dramatically in a show he co-produces. This and the dragonsteel mention atleast slightly hint at Valyrian steel. 

[Curled Finger]

20 hours ago, Ethelarion said:

I understand you're not fighting me. It's all right buddy! I thought there was a little more than the dragonsteel in the books but apperently there isn't. So no evidence but I still doubt GRRM would allow his coolest unique fantasy, magic item to change dramatically in a show he co-produces. This and the dragonsteel mention atleast slightly hint at Valyrian steel. 

Ah, I get it now.   Listen, this is a good topic and a lot of fun to discuss.   This is the book forum.   We can't assume anything from the show until we actually read it.   I was excited about more than 1 thing happening in the show that never happened in the books.   It's hard to get on the same page when we mix mediums.  There was a time I thought the swords would become important in the show because I know they will be crucial in the books.   Truth is we've only got 3 Valyrian Swords even mentioned much less seen on the show.    We saw Dawn, but the show never went into it's really unique history.   I thought the dual swords were bitchen, but it's not the way it went down with Arthur Dayne at the Tower of Joy.  Now I'm thinking Long Claw and Heartsbane will be important on screen and that's it.   I will be surprised if we ever even see Dawn again on screen.   Given the role VS plays in the show your theory makes absolute sense.  

[Davjos]

@Curled Finger

I know it's a book forum and I'm happy it is but in my brain sometimes mixes stuff up. Thanks for still liking the threat and I only invité you and others to tear it apart. 

I used to be a huge fan of the show but when I read all the books a short time ago it just lacks all the depth we all love about this series, like Dawn. But I still think it is just as likely Valyrian steel harms Others as Dawn, if not more likely. 

[Curled Finger]

27 minutes ago, Ethelarion said:

@Curled Finger

I know it's a book forum and I'm happy it is but in my brain sometimes mixes stuff up. Thanks for still liking the threat and I only invité you and others to tear it apart. 

I used to be a huge fan of the show but when I read all the books a short time ago it just lacks all the depth we all love about this series, like Dawn. But I still think it is just as likely Valyrian steel harms Others as Dawn, if not more likely. 

I mix things up too and agree the books are so rich.  I have multiple lunch bets riding on those Valyrian Steel Swords being critical to end game so here's to hoping you are right! 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

The books have yet to show us whether Valyrian Steel works against the Others, but I wouldn't be surprised if that does come up TWOW.

Valyrian Steel can be deadly to Others without being the dragonsteel mentioned in the NW annals. If Lightbringer was one sword, clearly there had to be other weapons that also worked against the Others.

Most of the major mysteries in the series have clues all the way back in the first book, which has a key passage in a Tyrion chapter about the properties of dragon bone. Since we know that dragon bone is NOT used in Valyrian Steel, there must be another reason for GRRM's inclusion of this information. Dragonsteel may well be blades made of dragon bone.

I skipped a lot in the above discussion, but I think I saw someone claiming that the sword Dawn is 2,000 years old? No, it's supposedly 10,000 years old, and forged from the heart of a fallen star. It also looks nothing like Valyrian Steel, so it may not even be germane to the discussion.

Fun fact: there's a professor at a university I think in California who believes he had finally cracked the method for making Damascus steel (inspiration for VS). It took him eighteen months to make a dagger. I don't know if he's read ASOIAF but if he does I bet he wishes he had some magic to speed up the process.

@Ethelarion what's your take on the "red sword of heroes" bit that Mel mentions. Do you think that's perhaps just part of the lore that was maybe added to the story later, or perhaps refers to the color Lightbringer takes on when aflame (so as to also work against wights)?

Would also like your take on the origin of the Last Hero/Azor Ahai. Each culture has their hero legend, but the making of any kind of steel doesn't seem to have been known in Westeros prior to the Andal invasion (Dawn and whatever material it is being a glaring anomaly, of course).

[Davjos]

@Lady Blizzardborn. I agree that Dawn is very old. I just pointed out that the 10.000 year old thing is but a legend and Curled Finger pointed out that TWOAIF describes Dawn as 'over 2000 year old'. I did not fully (re)research Dawn since I wanted to focus on VS but just wanted to put forward that Dawn being around during the Long Night is not fact, it's story. 

Dragonbone could definitely be another possibility. The fact I tend to lean towards VS is the fact that VS seems to have a lot more to do with the legend of Azor Ahai, mainly that a bone weapon needs to be sharpened, but I expect not tempered? It might have been 'tempered in Nissa Nissa's heart' as only a blood magic ritual, so I definitely think it's still possible. It would be a lot bigger of a surprise to us readers if it's dragonbone, but it has little to do with fire. Dragons are always described as fire made flesh, not pointing at magic bones, but flesh and their bones never seem magical in the books (i.e. not used in rituals or like Weirwood is used,) correct me if I'm wrong. They just seem strong, used in composite bows etc.

The red blade could be just a little 'sparkling up' the story by Red Priestesses for the Red god. Every fucking thing regarding Rhollor is red. It could also be that recently forged/heated up VS is red, because Oathbreaker shows red ripples. I don't think the fact that Mel says the red sword of heroes is that important. For instance the prophecy of Azor Ahai doesn't mention any colour. But it still makes my theory a very little bit less credible haha.

I don't really have the Last Hero figured out because his legend seems to universal to be one person. The Legend of Azor Ahai stems from Asshai, ending darkness that lay over the world. Interestingly according to Mel he didn't fight alone. The Prince that was Promised always seemed like the Westerosi translation of Azor Ahai. So he could be a person from Essos, first dealing with shit there, before freeing Westeros. Then we have the Empire of Yi Ti that has their Hero(Yin Tar?), the Rhoynar that have a unnamed hero that united their people to 'join in a song that brought back the day'. The ice-age over Planetos seems to spread out to be ended by a single person. This has caused me to always doubt the story of a single warrior making an end to it al. 
There are a lot of options really:

• I've always considered there being seven heroes, since so much in GRRM's world revolves around the number seven. It could all rhyme in a way George Lucas would be jealous of. This would explain the fact that no 'world' religion was formed after the ending of the Long Night. The Andals started worshipping the real story, all 7 heroes. We could even go speculating, saying the Prince that was Promised was the Warrior, fighting the Others with a blade, forged by Azor Ahai, the Smith etc. 
• It could all be many faces of the same person, like the faceless god. This would be doubtful since the Long Night seemed to spread from the Lands of always winter to Asshai.
• My personal favourite thought/theory is that fire/blood magic started growing strong again, causing the ice magic of the Long Night to fade and that the opposite has been happening recently. This would lead into dragons, Valyrian steel etc. Only problem for this might be that dragons were around before the Long Night pointing to fire magic being around then, although we of course don't know it for certain. It could also be blood magic that was discovered to end the Long Night. Fire and blood are always connected and blood and ice don't seem to mix(Wights being bloodless and white, blood being warm).
• What could have set the increase in fire magic off was volcanic activity. We know there is a lot of volcanic activity across Planetos, in Winterfell, Dragonstone, Old Valyria etc. Also Moat Cailin is made from volcanic stone. Valyria is said to have drawn magical powers from the volcanoes allowing them to hatch and tame dragons. 
• It could just have been a lot of volcanic activity, first causing an Ice Age by covering the world in a cloud of dust, blocking the sun from reaching the earth. The amount of CO2 released in very large volcanic activity changes the atmosphere, making the earth warmer again. After this legends have been build around it.

As you can see I have only options. I'm almost certain there wasn't one Last Hero. It could have been a shady necromancer, releasing the powers of blood magic into the world. I feel like the fire and blood magic connected to VS may have ended the Long Night. It might even have been VS. i'm curious what you think. I went a lot deeper than intended haha.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

I didn't mean to imply that dragonbone had anything to do with Lightbringer itself, just that it might have been useful. Essentially I'm thinking that Lightbringer was something special and used by one particular man, while dragonsteel might have been a bit more available and used by several.

Not sure on whether dragonbone would require tempering, but the description in the text mentions it being lighter and more flexible than steel yet just as strong, black due to high iron content, and perhaps most importantly impervious to flame which is important when dealing with wights. Dragonbone bows shoot farther even than bows made of goldenheart wood. We've seen a few other mentions of dragonbone, the dagger used in the attempt on Bran's life had a dragonbone hilt I think. And guess which merchant deals in dragonbone? Illyrio. 

I agree on the idea of more than one hero. The Westerosi tradition of the Last Hero has him setting out with 12 companions, a horse, and a dog, and then he's the only one who survives. While it makes no sense to me that out of 13 men only one would have a horse, or why the dog had to die, I do think there's a potential clue here. Combining the multiple men setting out from the Last Hero tale with the traditions from other cultures of their heroes ending the Long Night, I think it's possible that each culture present on Planetos at the time sent their best warrior/champion/hero and they all set out together. Then after it was over, each culture claimed their man was the one who succeeded.

Valyrian Steel as Lightbringer is possible. The only real problem I have with it is that if Azor Ahai or whoever equivalent smith created it thousands of years ago, why didn't it become a thing until the Valyrians started doing the same? If Azor Ahai was from Asshai, then it should be called Asshai'i Steel, which admittedly doesn't look or sound as nice. But I have to allow that it's said it was the Asshai'i who taught the Valyrians how to bind dragons to their will. So maybe Asshai'i people in general don't like to make a big thing of their knowledge and magical abilities, and the Valyrians had no such qualms about using every advantage possible to take over as much of the world as they could.

You bring up an interesting point on the issue of seven heroes. If I'm remembering correctly, there's an Andal tradition that there were seven heroes who represented the seven aspects of their god, and that they would return in the time of Westeros' greatest need. The idea of seven characters being heroes, each representing an aspect of the Seven has been discussed before, and in a thread about Arya and the Faceless Men I thought of something interesting regarding the Stranger...Arya is the main contender for a current incarnation of the Stranger; while the Stranger is generally considered to be genderless, the characters still refer to the Stranger as "he"; if the previous incarnation of the Stranger was male, then the new one has to be female to maintain the gender-neutrality which is crucial to the balance of the Seven aspects (three male, three female, one neither/both). Going back to the founding of the Faceless Men, they began in the mines of Valyria where a man gave the gift of death. What if he was the original incarnation of the Stranger? He could have gone to Andalos. Now the timelines we have don't exactly match up, given that the Andal religion should go back beyond their invasion of Westeros 6,000 years ago, and Valyria itself having only risen to power 5,000 years ago, but as you've pointed out we don't know how accurate any of these numbers are. 

It all gets very involved and intertwined, doesn't it? 

Have you looked into the Great Empire of the Dawn and the Bloodstone Emperor? The dragons having been around before the Long Night isn't an issue if everything was pretty well balanced prior to the Blood Betrayal. It could be that the BE did something in order to depose his sister or to hold his power that upset the balance and plunged the world into it's first years-long, seriously deadly winter. 

I have to argue against the Long Night having been nuclear winter caused by multiple volcanic eruptions, or even one supervolcano eruption. If that were the case the Doom of Valyria likely would have caused another Long Night. Also, given that we have the Others, and a pattern of multi-year seasons and really hard winters coming after long summers, I'd say the Long Night was not a natural disaster alone. It will be interesting to see how much of the Long Night 2.0 resembles the stories though, and how much was added later for flavor. And that reminds me, I love your phrase of "sparkled up" for the Red Sword of Heroes.

[ravenous reader]

On 1/10/2017 at 11:04 PM, Ethelarion said:

Dawn has litteraly nothing to do with dragons and clearly isn't steel. It would make no sense to name it Dragonsteel.

I have recently considered whether 'dragonsteel' might be a pun on 'dragon steal.'  In other words, that the Last Hero may have had to literally or figuratively 'steal a dragon' in order to save the day!  Although there may have been no Valyrians around in Westeros during the Long Night, there were certainly dragons (hasn't GRRM confirmed as much?)  As far as Dawn being a candidate for dragonsteel or 'dragonsteal', consider that a shooting star or falling meteor looks very like a sword or dragon to the imagination of the humans viewing it from below (you can consult any number of comparative mythological accounts of these astronomical phenomena to convince yourself of the validity of this metaphor).  Stealing (with a view to consuming) the heart of a dragon (which by the way occurs in the Norse myth of Sigurd and Fafnir) is associated with the path to unlimited wisdom and power.  Therefore, harvesting the heart of the fallen star, the dragon meteor, in order to forge Dawn can be considered a 'dragon steal.'

[LmL]

One point of fact, Dawn is said to be identical in all respects to Valyrian steel, save for the color and its relationship to light ( it has a faint glow where Valyrian steel does not). In other words, it does appear to be still, just very unusual or more likely magical steel.

Second point, meteors and bleeding stars and comets can all be symbolized as dragons. So a sword made from a meteor could absolutely be called Dragon Steel. 

I am actually of the opinion that the last hero's Dragonsteel was a dark steel blade, a type of prototype for Valyrian steel as the OP suggests. As I have laid out elsewhere, I believe there is every reason to think that the Great Empire of the Dawn was a race of dragonlords, capable of building fused stone fortresses, something later done by the Valyrians - so there is every reason to think that they were capable of making a type of dragon sword, long before the Valyrians existed. However it's hard to ignore the symbolism of dawn as the sword of the morning, so that's obviously a prime candidate as well, and as I said, dragon steel would be an apt name for it.

 

[Davjos]

@ravenous reader

Thanks for opening my eyes with regards to Dawn and comets. Very true and honestly an oversight of mine. Because of the pale, white sword I always pictured something slightly see-through and didn't think of it as a 'metal' blade, though it obviously is. The Great Empire of the Dawn might very well be where VS, dragons and the Last Hero came from but due to claiming it was made by the Son of Gods who ruled for thousands of years I didn't really connect it to the basic concept of Lightbringer being a template, not a real weapon. It's just too vague and mystical. 

 

Edit: I think I intended to @LmL

[LmL]

 @Ethelarion, you would probably find my blog / podcasts of interest - sounds like we are discussing all of your favorite topics.  

http://lucifermeanslightbringer.com

 

[Davjos]

@LmL Thanks for the link man I'll be sure to check it out!

 

[LmL]

3 minutes ago, Ethelarion said:

@LmL Thanks for the link man I'll be sure to check it out!

 

Right on, and if you are curious about the Great Empire of the Dawn, here is the link to the YouTube video I did with History of Westeros on that topic: