College Football 2017: Butch Jones' Locker

[Ferrum Aeternum]

Not to mention the debacle yesterday was very easily avoidable - it was the shock of the announcement like a bolt from the blue that caused the backlash. The fact that the AD didn't have the foresight to float the name out first (as is standard practice) is laughable. This column from SI explains it well: 

The vetting process is supposed to bring every potential land mine into view before a school gets too far down the road with a candidate. When a candidate is potentially controversial, a school will often leak that it is considering that candidate as a trial balloon. Had Currie floated such a balloon in the past few days, Tennessee’s fan base would have reacted in similar fashion. The difference is the sides wouldn’t already have a Memorandum of Understanding. The Vols could have moved on to another candidate without a full-on revolt that will wind up making the search even more difficult going forward.

[the Greenleif Stark]

please show me one shred of evidence that he knew what was happening at PSU during his time there and how he's involved in a "child sex scandal?"

[Bronn Stone]

On 11/25/2017 at 8:42 AM, Kalbear said:

I think that's a much better choice for Kelly than Florida was. 

That said, I do wonder how he'll deal with UCLA. Oregon was a very good fit for Kelly, in that it doesn't have massive booster power like many other schools do nor does it have a ton of local press that would hound him. And Oregon (via Knight) would basically give Kelly whatever he wanted. He had a ton of control there to be Chip Kelly, and people wanted him for it. UCLA is closer than Florida in that way, but not nearly as much as Oregon - and as we saw in the NFL, Kelly doesn't tend to play super nicely with others.

UCLA's fanbase cares about basketball SO much more than football.  He'll at least have a grace period.  I honestly think that UCLA is the third-best place where he could possible coach (Oregon #1 and Cal #2 - and those two have coaches with whom they are reasonably happy).

[Kalbear]

5 minutes ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

please show me one shred of evidence that he knew what was happening at PSU during his time there and how he's involved in a "child sex scandal?"

I don't have to. It doesn't matter, literally. This isn't a court of law. People didn't like Schiano. You're one of those libertarian capitalist types - why are you arguing against the free market, here? People stated what they didn't want, said they wouldn't donate, and they chose differently. Doesn't matter why. 

Also, Sing us a song, Mr. Schiano Man.

[the Greenleif Stark]

1 minute ago, Kalbear said:

I don't have to. It doesn't matter, literally. This isn't a court of law. People didn't like Schiano. You're one of those libertarian capitalist types - why are you arguing against the free market, here? People stated what they didn't want, said they wouldn't donate, and they chose differently. Doesn't matter why. 

Also, Sing us a song, Mr. Schiano Man.

That's why I find it funny. Some dumb idiot fan/student started a rumor that Shcianno is some how involved/associated with Sandusky and PSU and absuing kids, so they spray paint rocks and start fake news on twitter and now the guy isn't gonna get the job.  A guy said he heard from another guy that Schianno knew about Sandusky.  That's all it takes now, a person to hear from another person and you're automatically scum of the earth.  If they think they're gettting Gruden, they're taking crazypills

[Bronn Stone]

Schiano was an assistant during the Sandusky era.

The official story that Joe and nobody else knew does not come CLOSE to passing the smell test.

The most interesting part is that Sandusky NEVER again got another coaching job offer.  With the tremendous success his defenses had, the ONLY way that makes sense was if someone was secretly passing the word among other coaches.  Yet no such word was passed to the foundation.  Until the truth is told, a truth that matches the known facts, everyone associated with Penn State and the Sandusky era deserves to be shunned and scorned.

[Kalbear]

15 minutes ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

That's why I find it funny. Some dumb idiot fan/student started a rumor that Shcianno is some how involved/associated with Sandusky and PSU and absuing kids,

It wasn't really just an idiot fan; it had to do with the investigation. Schiano denied it not under oath, McQueary stated it under oath, and that's where we stand.

15 minutes ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

so they spray paint rocks and start fake news on twitter and now the guy isn't gonna get the job.  A guy said he heard from another guy that Schianno knew about Sandusky.  That's all it takes now, a person to hear from another person and you're automatically scum of the earth.  If they think they're gettting Gruden, they're taking crazypills

Right now the idea is that they're going to get Tee Martin, who they love the idea of.

Really the issue here is that they didn't do any kind of vetting of Schiano with their boosters or fans. Typically they do a trial balloon to shake off the issues that might be there and see how it'll play, and then they'll go. What Tennessee did was go directly from Kelly/Mullens to their last option, Schiano, within 24 hours - and signed a MoU to that effect. Schiano isn't popular at all, and his link with PSU right now is not a good look for him. 

[Slurktan]

12 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It wasn't really just an idiot fan; it had to do with the investigation. Schiano denied it not under oath, McQueary stated it under oath, and that's where we stand.

 

What a shocker you forgot to mention the person who was said to have said he knew denied it under oath,

[the Greenleif Stark]

11 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It wasn't really just an idiot fan; it had to do with the investigation. Schiano denied it not under oath, McQueary stated it under oath, and that's where we stand.

Right now the idea is that they're going to get Tee Martin, who they love the idea of.

Really the issue here is that they didn't do any kind of vetting of Schiano with their boosters or fans. Typically they do a trial balloon to shake off the issues that might be there and see how it'll play, and then they'll go. What Tennessee did was go directly from Kelly/Mullens to their last option, Schiano, within 24 hours - and signed a MoU to that effect. Schiano isn't popular at all, and his link with PSU right now is not a good look for him. 

you are wrong, did you read the article?  Schiano was never under oath, he was never subpoened.  It's all about McQueary saying he heard from Bradley that Shiano knew about it.  Bradley has denied saying that, Shciano has denied ever knowing or seeing anything.  The Tampa Bay Bucs and OSU, obviously vetted this guy before hiring him and found no reason not to hire the guy..........and yea, Tee Martin, lets watch that work out.  Again, this is why I find the situation funny, I have no ties or investment in UT so I don't care who they hire or don't, just thought they lost out on not hiring a good coach because of internet uproar BS

[Kalbear]

12 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

What a shocker you forgot to mention the person who was said to have said he knew denied it under oath,

Bradley didn't deny it under oath though. And Schiano never did. 

8 minutes ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

you are wrong, did you read the article?  Schiano was never under oath, he was never subpoened.

I stated that Schiano denied it not under oath. Did you read my statement?

8 minutes ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

  It's all about McQueary saying he heard from Bradley that Shiano knew about it.  Bradley has denied saying that, Shciano has denied ever knowing or seeing anything.  The Tampa Bay Bucs and OSU, obviously vetted this guy before hiring him and found no reason not to hire the guy..........

Tampa hired him before Sandusky became a big deal. OSU hired him, but as a DC - and people complained. 

Also, sex scandals matter a smidgen more in 2017 than they did previously. 

 

[Bronn Stone]

Mike McQueary is unemployed and Tom Bradley and Greg Schiano are seeking to not be. 

Apparently, whistleblowing about Penn State is a deal killer.  Covering up gets one a pass.  Can't imagine why nobody is willing to stick his neck out telling hard truths.

Is it definitive proof that would pass muster in a court of law?  Nope.  Is it good enough for me?  Yep.

I'd be thrilled if Cal found a job for McQueary.  I'd vomit if they hired anyone else who worked for Paterno during the Sandusky era.

[Kalbear]

38 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said:

Mike McQueary is unemployed and Tom Bradley and Greg Schiano are seeking to not be. 

Apparently, whistleblowing about Penn State is a deal killer.  Covering up gets one a pass.  Can't imagine why nobody is willing to stick his neck out telling hard truths.

Is it definitive proof that would pass muster in a court of law?  Nope.  Is it good enough for me?  Yep.
 

Yeah, this tweet is a good example. Louis Freeh has been discredited? The fuck is that? Shocking that a Penn State board of trustees would want to make sure only Sandusky is blamed here. 

https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/935228427476578304

[Bronn Stone]

26 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Yeah, this tweet is a good example. Louis Freeh has been discredited? The fuck is that? Shocking that a Penn State board of trustees would want to make sure only Sandusky is blamed here. 

https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/935228427476578304

It's also telling that somebody who has devoted his life to discovering every detail about a scandal doesn't know the difference between "pored over" and "poured over".  Though mayhaps he got it right and the substance being poured was concrete and burying the evidence was the goal.

[Rhom]

I don't think this is about "Idiot SJW's" in the least.  I think its about the fact that Schiano is a d-bag and never successful unless he had Ray Rice hauling the ball around.

Go back and look at the timeline of fan rage.  For the first two or three hours of twitter after the announcement, everything is about what a terrible coach he is.  Only after someone brings up the Penn State connection does the fanbase start to hang their hat on it.  Sadly, potentially covering child rape was nothing more than a convenient ploy to change the argument from one about football to one about morals.  

Lets not kid ourselves, if the candidate was Nick Saban and he had worked on the Paterno staff in the 80's/early90's no one from Knoxville would be making a peep.

 

[Rhom]

And yes... Tee Martin is about the only name I've heard with any real validity today.  

Which is yet another reason that Currie has to go as AD.  Had he floated the name as Kal and others have said is essentially standard practice for a major hire, this could have blown over and then you go to the next tier of coaches and get a guy like a Neal Brown at Troy.  Instead, you've made yourself so toxic that only an alum would be willing to take the job out of a sense of obligation.

[sperry]

The Schiano thing was ridiculous. He was a defensive backs coach there for 4 years when he was in his 20s. He didn't even overlap with McQueary, how the fuck would he know what happened? Lots of blame to go around for the Sandusky thing, but I very much doubt Schiano had any involvement.

 

Tennessee fans decided to form a lynch mob because they didn't like the hire. And the ironic thing is, this damaged their program far worse than hiring Schiano ever would have. Schiano is actually a solid coach, but why would anyone want to step into that shitshow of a situation at this point?

[HokieStone]

Tennessee is a dumpster fire of a program right now.  And it pisses me off that their last win of any consequence was over my Hokies in the "Battle at Bristol" last year.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

David Cutcliffe has told the Vols thanks, but no thanks. 

They also reportedly approached Jason Witten about the position, who not only has zero coaching experience at any level but is in fact an ACTIVE NFL PLAYER AT THIS MOMENT.   

[lokisnow]

shit, at this point, TN should try to go get Peyton Manning or something, simply on the idea that he can probably sign recruits just on their drool alone at meeting him. whether or not he can coach, well he can't be worse than Butch Jones or Greg Schiano, right?

***

I was playing around with 538s playoff calculator to see what scenarios put Alabama in.

And I noticed something really strange, not supported by all the analysts gut feelings, but apparently supported by the football numbers driving 538s algorithms

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2017-college-football-predictions/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Wisconsin, Auburn, Clemson, and USC win, Oklahoma loses

Alabama has a 44% chance of making the playoff, and here is the weird thing, USC has a 42%--that is basically a push.

what?

if this were an analyst prediction, it would almost make sense, you have a bunch of "gut feelings" reasonings you could make, USC is on a win streak (Alabama lost late), and USC has improved since it's midseason loss, USC never had a bye, like Clemson they lost on a weird Friday night away game, Alabama playoff fatigue by the committee (teach Bama a lesson while we have the chance), committee suffering from recency bias (which hurts Bama's chances) because they'll be thinking of their massively wrong choice last year when the committee ignored on-the-field results and put a conference loser in the playoff instead of the conference winner. 

But it's really surprising to see a data modeled prediction put Alabama and USC at equal footing, it's the sort of think I expect from click bait "analysis". Is USC's schedule that much better than Bamas? are their wins that much better than Bamas?  @Kalbear have any insight why USC would be a push with Bama, data wise?

[Ferrum Aeternum]

52 minutes ago, lokisnow said:

if this were an analyst prediction, it would almost make sense, you have a bunch of "gut feelings" reasonings you could make, USC is on a win streak (Alabama lost late), and USC has improved since it's midseason loss, USC never had a bye, like Clemson they lost on a weird Friday night away game, Alabama playoff fatigue by the committee (teach Bama a lesson while we have the chance), committee suffering from recency bias (which hurts Bama's chances) because they'll be thinking of their massively wrong choice last year when the committee ignored on-the-field results and put a conference loser in the playoff instead of the conference winner. 

But it's really surprising to see a data modeled prediction put Alabama and USC at equal footing, it's the sort of think I expect from click bait "analysis". Is USC's schedule that much better than Bamas? are their wins that much better than Bamas?  @Kalbear have any insight why USC would be a push with Bama, data wise?

Throwing my two cents in - 

Bama only had one moderately impressive win all year, that over 9-3 LSU at home. They scraped by 8-4 Miss St and 7-5 Texas A&M on the road, which were decent-ish wins. Apart from that, they cleaned up against the two worst teams in the SEC East (Vandy and TN) and the rest of the SEC West which sucked this year. Their win over Florida St turned out to be nothing special at all. So resume wise, there are at least half a dozen teams who could lay claim to a better one than Bama at this point, and importantly they lost their chance this weekend to get another signature win. 

If USC wins this weekend, they will have beaten Stanford twice. While the Cardinal have had their ups and downs, they're still a 9-win team with victories over 10-2 Washington and 9-3 Notre Dame. Yes, USC has two losses on the season vs. Bama's one, but both were on the road against good teams. Their schedule was clearly tougher overall than Bama's, and importantly they're about to get a shot to beat a good team (Stanford) for a second time this year.