The Green Grace was behind the poison in Hizdahr's box

[Lord Varys]

9 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I wasn't sure how to read that.  My first thought was that Coleman stopped putting sweatsleep in it so it no longer tasted as sweat and he was just getting regular milk.

He talks about it tasted burned, if I remember correctly, and Colemon inquires whether Robert had had any nosebleeds which don't seem to be symptoms of sweetsleep poisoning as far as we know. Nor does Robert normally has nosebleeds as far as we know. That's pretty odd.

And the problem is that we don't know who actually administers the sweetsleep. Littlefinger originally got it from Colemon, but who is calling the shots now? Can Alayne, Littlefinger, or some servants more or less decide on a whim to hand Robert the battle with the sweet milk? We don't know any of those details.

[40 Thousand Skeletons]

I do think the Green Grace is a sneaky bastard, but I personally subscribe to the theory that the House of Pahl was behind the poisoned locusts, and that they were intended for Strong Belwas.

• Why use a weak poison? Belwas ate all the locusts and didn't even die. Dany is obviously smaller, but could the poisoner really expect that she would gorge herself on locusts? She didn't even end up having a single one. Why not poison food she actually likes? Using a weak poison actually ensures that if Hizdahr or Dany had eaten a couple locusts they would survive.
• Their procession on the way to the fighting pit is suspiciously halted on the way there, in front of the pyramid of Pahl, which could have provided them an opportunity to poison the locusts (hard to say where the box of food was kept exactly, it's pretty vague)
• Belwas humiliated House Pahl when he killed their champion, and later the rest of the men of the house are killed, leaving them potentially thirsty for vengeance

Basically the poison locusts are a big red herring, and Skahaz is able to take advantage of the situation to manipulate our lovable gullible dummy Ser Barristan.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Quote

The Green Grace bowed. "I shall pray for you as well."

Daenerys VI, Dance 43

Given what we know about Him of Many Faces and the Faceless Men, that’s not necessarily a nice thing...

[Walda]

On 14/01/2017 at 0:15 AM, Lost Melnibonean said:

I would submit that Tyrion poisoned Cersei with the tears of Lys without killing her

I don't think Cersei's symptoms are a good match for Jon Arryn's.

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“It was the king’s seal, and the letter is in Robert’s own hand. I saved it for you. He said Lord Arryn was taken quickly. Even Maester Pycelle was helpless, but he brought the milk of the poppy, so Jon did not linger long in pain.”(AGoT, Ch.02 Catelyn I)

“He came to me one day asking after a certain book, as hale and healthy as ever, though it did seem to me that something was troubling him deeply. The next morning he was twisted over in pain, too sick to rise from bed. Maester Colemon thought it was a chill on the stomach. The weather had been hot, and the Hand often iced his wine, which can upset the digestion. When Lord Jon continued to weaken, I went to him myself, but the gods did not grant me the power to save him.”
...
“In the last stage of his fever, the Hand called out the name Robert several times,...When I saw that all hope had fled, I gave the Hand the milk of the poppy, so he should not suffer. Just before he closed his eyes for the last time, he whispered something... At the end, his speech was too slurred to comprehend. Death did not come until the next morning, but Lord Jon was at peace after that. He never spoke again.”(AGoT,Ch.25 Eddard V)

The only reason to suspect Tears of Lys is in Maester Coleman's 'upset digestion, chill on the stomach' idea

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it eats at a man’s bowels and belly, and kills as a sickness of those parts. Smell.” Arya sniffed, and smelled nothing. (AFfC, Ch.34 Cat Of The Canals)

Not really a perfect match for the fever, the inability to speak above a whisper (the slurred speech might be due to the milk of the poppy) Lying in his bed too sick to rise doesn't seem at all like Cersei's illness - she was unable to get off the privy. Also, not a very quick poison like the strangler - although according to Varys, the tears of lys mimic a natural death:

Quote

He stroked a powdered cheek. “Now, poison … the tears of Lys, let us say. Khal Drogo need never know it was not a natural death.”(AGoT, Ch.33 Eddard VIII)

.

On 14/01/2017 at 1:42 AM, Lord Varys said:

Cersei was suffering diarrhea and there is no reason to believe that the Tears of Lys appear as a severe case of diarrhea, being mistaking for a sickness like the bloody flux or cholera, or something of that sort.

And doesn't Pycelle have some powders/poison which actually act as a laxative?

The text implies that it is greycap, because it is the only powder mentioned. The medicinal uses of greycap are not mentioned.

Quote

such interesting things. He noted sweetsleep and nightshade, milk of the poppy, the tears of Lys, powdered greycap, wolfsbane and demon’s dance, basilisk venom, blindeye, widow’s blood …
Standing on his toes and straining upward, he managed to pull a small dusty bottle off the high shelf. When he read the label, he smiled and slipped it up his sleeve.

(ACoK, Ch.17 Tyrion IV)

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His back was to her as he filled two cups with sweet Arbor red. It was the easiest thing in the world to sprinkle a pinch of fine powder into hers.

(ACoK, Ch.25 Tyrion VI)

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On the table were laid a number of small jars. Pycelle was pleased to put a name to each.
“Greycap,” he said in a quavery voice, “from the toadstool. Nightshade, sweetsleep, demon’s dance. This is blindeye. Widow’s blood, this one is called, for the color. A cruel potion. It shuts down a man’s bladder and bowels, until he drowns in his own poisons. This wolfsbane, here basilisk venom, and this one the tears of Lys. Yes. I know them all. The Imp Tyrion Lannister stole them from my chambers, when he had me falsely imprisoned.”

(ASoS, Ch.66 Tyrion IX)

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Varys confirmed Tyrion’s midnight visit to Grand Maester Pycelle’s chambers and the theft of his poisons and potions (ASoS, Ch.66 Tyrion IX)

So it is implied that the laxative was a pinch of greycap.

Until now, I had not realised a. That the poison that got Jon Arryn might have been sprinkled on the powdery pages of Malleon's book.

b. That somebody could poison Lysa's face powder.

c. That when Varys confirms the theft of the poisons, we know it didn't happen, and that no little bird saw the actual theft. Also, its the first time I've noticed Varys reporting something we know never happened. Also, Varys is always powdered and sweet-smelling (perhaps to conceal the real purpose of the powder?)

d. That the Selaesori Qhoran is a reference to Tywin, the stinky steward. He was probably poisoned with Widow's Blood. Check out all occurrences of constipation in the books:

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If you ever get my sword, it will be through your bowels.”
“A sure cure for constipation,” said Tyrion. “Just ask my father.”(ADwD, Ch.27 Tyrion VII)

some worm-eaten wooden eminence with a constipated look and a scroll tucked up under one arm.(ADwD, Ch.33 Tyrion VIII)

The ship groaned and growled beneath him like a constipated fat man straining to shit.(ADwD, Ch.40 Tyrion IX)

On the Locusts, I think it was Kezmya Pahl with the chilled wine. She was put up to it by her family, who smuggled in the poison when Dany's planiquin halted in front of their pyramid so a planiquin bearer could be tended to. The Pahls wanted to avenge the death of Oznak zo Pahl. Belwas was saved by his extreme bulk, and by his greedy interest in the locusts. The sweetness of them helped negate the deletirous effects of the hot pepper, that acts like a purge when combined with the poison.

It means that all the main characters are suspicious of each other, believing Dany to be the target. It also means that the cupbearers are far more dangerous than any of them believe. Barristan, Dany, Hizdahr, the green grace, all accept drinks from the cupbearers unthinkingly.  Shakhaz tortures the daughters of the tradesmen of Meereen for kicks. He fines the old rich families, but he doens't take their daughters. He doesn't need a real reason. Likewise Reznak only wants to know who is winning so he can determine who to flatter.

[SeanF]

My view is that it was the Shavepate who poisoned the locusts, and deliberately botched it.  He didn't want Daenerys to die.  He wanted to provoke war against his enemies within and outside Meereen.

Peace suited the Great Masters of Meereen at this point.  They had one of their own married to Daenerys and retained their wealth and power.  If she were killed or driven to war, they risked losing everything.  So, I don't think that either the Green Grace or Hizdahr were behind the poisoning.

[Walda]

On 14/01/2017 at 3:35 AM, Lord Varys said:

He talks about it tasted burned,

Yeah, Colemon doesn't really know how to use it. But Mirri does

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Mirri Maz Duur was there, the maegi, tipping a cup against her lips. She tasted sour milk, and something else, something thick and bitter. Warm liquid ran down her chin. Somehow she swallowed. The tent grew dimmer, and sleep took her again. This time she did not dream. She floated, serene and at peace, on a black sea that knew no shore.
...
After a time—a night, a day, a year, she could not say—she woke again. The tent was dark, its silken walls flapping like wings when the wind gusted outside. This time Dany did not attempt to rise. “Irri,” she called, “Jhiqui. Doreah.” They were there at once. “My throat is dry,” she said, “so dry,” and they brought her water.
...
“Drink,” she said, lifting Dany’s head to the cup once more, but this time it was only wine. Sweet, sweet wine. Dany drank, and lay back, listening to the soft sound of her own breathing. She could feel the heaviness in her limbs, as sleep crept in to fill her up once more(AGoT, Ch.68 Daenerys IX)

I would guess from this that it stopped blood loss. knocked the patient out and left them with a sore throat.

Also, the faceless men know how this works:

Quote

When the milk came, Arya drank it down. It smelled a little burnt and had a bitter aftertaste. “Go to bed now, child,” the kindly man said. “On the morrow you must serve.”
That night she dreamed she was a wolf again, but it was different from the other dreams. In this dream she had no pack. She prowled alone, bounding over rooftops and padding silently beside the banks of a canal, stalking shadows through the fog.
When she woke the next morning, she was blind.(AFfC, Ch.34 Cat Of The Canals)

And possibly Maester Luwin does too:

Quote

Maester Luwin was carrying a green jar,.. “I’ve made you a sleeping draught, Bran.”
...
“This will give you dreamless sleep,” Maester Luwin said as he pulled the stopper from the jar. “Sweet, dreamless sleep.”
“It will?” Bran said, wanting to believe.
“Yes. Drink.”
Bran drank. The potion was thick and chalky, but there was honey in it, so it went down easy.
“Come the morn, you’ll feel better.” Luwin gave Bran a smile and a pat as he took his leave.
Osha lingered behind. “Is it the wolf dreams again?”
Bran nodded.
“You should not fight so hard, boy. I see you talking to the heart tree. Might be the gods are trying to talk back.”
“The gods?” he murmured, drowsy already. Osha’s face grew blurry and grey. Sweet, dreamless sleep, Bran thought.
Yet when the darkness closed over him, he found himself in the godswood, moving silently beneath green-grey sentinels and gnarled oaks as old as time. I am walking, he thought, exulting. Part of him knew that it was only a dream, but even the dream of walking was better than the truth of his bedchamber, walls and ceiling and door.
It was dark amongst the trees, but the comet lit his way, and his feet were sure. He was moving on four good legs, (ACoK, Ch.04 Bran I)

 

[The Fattest Leech]

49 minutes ago, Walda said:

So it is implied that the laxative was a pinch of greycap.

The only reason to suspect Tears of Lys is in Maester Coleman's 'upset digestion, chill on the stomach' idea

Not really a perfect match for the fever, the inability to speak above a whisper (the slurred speech might be due to the milk of the poppy) Lying in his bed too sick to rise doesn't seem at all like Cersei's illness - she was unable to get off the privy. Also, not a very quick poison like the strangler - although according to Varys, the tears of lys mimic a natural death:

.

The text implies that it is greycap, because it is the only powder mentioned. The medicinal uses of greycap are not mentioned.

So it is implied that the laxative was a pinch of greycap.

Until now, I had not realised a. That the poison that got Jon Arryn might have been sprinkled on the powdery pages of Malleon's book.

b. That somebody could poison Lysa's face powder.

c. That when Varys confirms the theft of the poisons, we know it didn't happen, and that no little bird saw the actual theft. Also, its the first time I've noticed Varys reporting something we know never happened. Also, Varys is always powdered and sweet-smelling (perhaps to conceal the real purpose of the powder?)

d. That the Selaesori Qhoran is a reference to Tywin, the stinky steward. He was probably poisoned with Widow's Blood. Check out all occurrences of constipation in the books:

On the Locusts, I think it was Kezmya Pahl with the chilled wine. She was put up to it by her family, who smuggled in the poison when Dany's planiquin halted in front of their pyramid so a planiquin bearer could be tended to. The Pahls wanted to avenge the death of Oznak zo Pahl. Belwas was saved by his extreme bulk, and by his greedy interest in the locusts. The sweetness of them helped negate the deletirous effects of the hot pepper, that acts like a purge when combined with the poison.

It means that all the main characters are suspicious of each other, believing Dany to be the target. It also means that the cupbearers are far more dangerous than any of them believe. Barristan, Dany, Hizdahr, the green grace, all accept drinks from the cupbearers unthinkingly.  Shakhaz tortures the daughters of the tradesmen of Meereen for kicks. He fines the old rich families, but he doens't take their daughters. He doesn't need a real reason. Likewise Reznak only wants to know who is winning so he can determine who to flatter.

Ya know, I never really looked at how many instances Tyrion has with mushrooms in the story. This is good! Also, Tyrion keeps the poison mushrooms in his shoes and uses them on Yezzan. This would be a convenient way make sure Yezzan did not cure from the blood flux because the symptoms would be hidden within the flux symptoms, and other healthy people would be avoiding Yezzan for fear of sickness themselves.

And Tyrion as often been compared to this Mushroom

[Lord Varys]

29 minutes ago, SeanF said:

My view is that it was the Shavepate who poisoned the locusts, and deliberately botched it.  He didn't want Daenerys to die.  He wanted to provoke war against his enemies within and outside Meereen.

Peace suited the Great Masters of Meereen at this point.  They had one of their own married to Daenerys and retained their wealth and power.  If she were killed or driven to war, they risked losing everything.  So, I don't think that either the Green Grace or Hizdahr were behind the poisoning.

Peace fall through irregardless what the Great Masters wanted or not when Yurkhaz zo Yunzak died in Daznak's Pit and Yezzan zo Qagaz mounted the pale mare shortly thereafter (I'm insane, I can actually remember those names and how they are spelled without checking).

Bloodbeard was pushing for war, and the news about the Volantenes coming meant that a separate peace Yunkai and Meereen would leave the Yunkai'i, their allies, and sellswords without any spoils of war.

When peace was formally established and celebrated Daenerys was no longer necessary. The Great Masters needed her and her people in case there would be war with the Yunkish Allies (the Unsullied, freedmen, and sellswords were not likely to fight for them) but once that threat seemed to have been over Dany could easily die. In fact, Yurkhaz and his guys may have demanded to see Dany die in the Pit. That might have been the reason why they came there in the first place.

The idea that the Great Masters would lose anything after Daenerys' death is actually not supported by the text.

And the Shavepate had basically nothing to do with Dany surviving the attempt. Hizdahr pushed the locusts on her and both he or Dany could have intervened, preventing Belwas from even touching food that had been prepared specifically for the queen and king.

@Walda

But sweetsleep is supposed to be sweet. Nothing indicates it has a burned aftertaste.

Arya seems to have drunken blindeye if that's what took her sight. The poison used there clearly wouldn't have been the same used on either Robert or Dany. Mirri's sleeping drought resembles sweetsleep insofar as the symptoms are concerned but not the taste of the drought.

And I very doubt Luwin would have used sweetsleep on Bran. Not just because it is very dangerous but also because the drought is clearly also tasting chalky and is described as thick. Sweetsleep could just have been put into normal milk, being disguised as honeyed milk.

[Lost Melnibonean]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Peace fall through irregardless what the Great Masters wanted or not when Yurkhaz zo Yunzak died in Daznak's Pit and Yezzan zo Qagaz mounted the pale mare shortly thereafter (I'm insane, I can actually remember those names and how they are spelled without checking).

Bloodbeard was pushing for war, and the news about the Volantenes coming meant that a separate peace Yunkai and Meereen would leave the Yunkai'i, their allies, and sellswords without any spoils of war.

When peace was formally established and celebrated Daenerys was no longer necessary. The Great Masters needed her and her people in case there would be war with the Yunkish Allies (the Unsullied, freedmen, and sellswords were not likely to fight for them) but once that threat seemed to have been over Dany could easily die. In fact, Yurkhaz and his guys may have demanded to see Dany die in the Pit. That might have been the reason why they came there in the first place.

The idea that the Great Masters would lose anything after Daenerys' death is actually not supported by the text.

And the Shavepate had basically nothing to do with Dany surviving the attempt. Hizdahr pushed the locusts on her and both he or Dany could have intervened, preventing Belwas from even touching food that had been prepared specifically for the queen and king.

@Walda

But sweetsleep is supposed to be sweet. Nothing indicates it has a burned aftertaste.

Arya seems to have drunken blindeye if that's what took her sight. The poison used there clearly wouldn't have been the same used on either Robert or Dany. Mirri's sleeping drought resembles sweetsleep insofar as the symptoms are concerned but not the taste of the drought.

And I very doubt Luwin would have used sweetsleep on Bran. Not just because it is very dangerous but also because the drought is clearly also tasting chalky and is described as thick. Sweetsleep could just have been put into normal milk, being disguised as honeyed milk.

I have noticed your repeated use of "irregardless." 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

I say no more. 

[Lord Varys]

1 minute ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I have noticed your repeated use of "irregardless." 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

I say no more. 

What do you expect? English isn't my native language.

[Lost Melnibonean]

8 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

What do you expect? English isn't my native language.

You do write it very well. 

[Walda]

 

5 hours ago, The Fattest Leech said:

And Tyrion as often been compared to this Mushroom

Gosh you are good.

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

But sweetsleep is supposed to be sweet. Nothing indicates it has a burned aftertaste.

The stuff in the milk has a burmed taste, and a bitter aftertaste. I don't know what it is. but it ain't sweetsleep (Bran's milk is sweetened with honey, so he only catches a chalky taste. Sweetsleep does not have a chalky taste, Although what Bran gets might not be the same thing).

I think you are right - blindeye for Arya. SweetRobin and Dany too, but in a different dosage. Maester Colemon checking with SweetRobin for  loss of sight.

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 1/11/2017 at 2:07 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

A pinch will grant a night of deep and dreamless sleep.

I agree with your theory.  The green grace is the harpy.   Hizdahr was the one responsible for the locust. 

This sentence caught my attention.  A dreamless sleep is no sleep at all.  The lack of sleep will eventually cause someone to behave erratically and even go mad.  A deceitful maester could use this drug to drive his master and mistress to madness.