Curled Finger Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said: Well, we haven't met a nights king yet. A major problem with anything lightbringer is that it is first and foremost a myth told by Mel, and she is very wrong about a lot of things. Assuming we meet a nights king, and assuming euron is killed or gives his armor to said nights king, and valyrian steel armor can protect someone against dragon fire, would a flaming sword somehow be hotter than dragonfire or stronger than valyrian steel armor? Valyrian steel's big advantage is that it can cut through regular steel fairly easily. So if there is a night's king, and if he gets Euron's armor and if that armor can protect the wearer from dragonfire yet be vulnerable to flaming magical valyrian steel then yes possibly someone could reforge an already tempered by water pair of swords into a new light bringer The Lightbringer/AA legend is also told by Salador Saan to Davos. His version agrees with Mel's. As you say, it's just a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddagain Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Curled finger I do not think the swords will change owners - or at least they will return to their original owners. I see Sam grabbing Heartsbane and sort of running at a white walker. I am not sure all twelve swords will be on the side of the last hero. They seem to come in pairs - one good one bloodthirsty From the Reach Heartsbane (good) /Orphan maker bloody From the Vale we have Lamentation/Lady Forlorn From the west Bright Roar/Red Rain From the Starks Oathkeeper/Widow's wail from the Targs Blackfyre/Dark sister(but both may be good or bad) We do not know what Ice represents, but we can assume that Dawn, Just maid, Light bringer, Vigilance, Truth and Longclaw will fight the others alongside Light bringer. Not sure about Nightfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor Xyn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 I'm almost positive that if Lightbringer actually exists, then it's Dawn. What is dawn if not the bringer of light? It's also a one-of-a-kind sword with all the properties of Valyrian steel but is as pale as milkglass, so if you say brandish it before a sunrise it would presumably reflect and spread the light everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Praetor Xyn said: I'm almost positive that if Lightbringer actually exists, then it's Dawn. What is dawn if not the bringer of light? It's also a one-of-a-kind sword with all the properties of Valyrian steel but is as pale as milkglass, so if you say brandish it before a sunrise it would presumably reflect and spread the light everywhere. Dawn the event? Yes. Dawn the sword? Hard to say. It could be the sword of The Great Other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza86 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 17 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: Dawn the event? Yes. Dawn the sword? Hard to say. It could be the sword of The Great Other. I like that idea, otherwise it's hard to see how Dawn gets into the hands of Jon. Of course someone else might be AA but I'm set on Jon. So naysayers how does your AA get their hands on Dawn if Dawn is or will become Lightbringer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, Nezza86 said: I like that idea, otherwise it's hard to see how Dawn gets into the hands of Jon. Of course someone else might be AA but I'm set on Jon. So naysayers how does your AA get their hands on Dawn if Dawn is or will become Lightbringer? Can't really speak for them but I would say that if Dawn is Lightbringer and House Dayne are only custodians of it, then in the event of another Long Night, whichever house originally owned it would probably get it back...or their closest heir. Or they could always draw straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiemal Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a sword isn't just a sword. While there might be an actual piece of metal called "Lightbringer" I think that on a more fundamental level LB is the dragons and the blood pact that binds people to them and that Ice is a similar token of a bond that brought the Stark's into Winter's family. Ice being melted down is just a formality- the Stark's long ago turned their backs on their hiemal origins and embraced a new role as wardens and protectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, hiemal said: To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a sword isn't just a sword. While there might be an actual piece of metal called "Lightbringer" I think that on a more fundamental level LB is the dragons and the blood pact that binds people to them and that Ice is a similar token of a bond that brought the Stark's into Winter's family. Ice being melted down is just a formality- the Stark's long ago turned their backs on their hiemal origins and embraced a new role as wardens and protectors. This reminds me of Ned's thoughts about a frozen hell reserved for Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza86 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: Can't really speak for them but I would say that if Dawn is Lightbringer and House Dayne are only custodians of it, then in the event of another Long Night, whichever house originally owned it would probably get it back...or their closest heir. Or they could always draw straws. Haha imagine how The story would differ if everyone in westeros settled their differences by drawing straws. Or by Rock Paper Scissors lizard Spock haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 On 13/1/2017 at 6:13 PM, Nezza86 said: alternatively Dany could burn him with a dragon? Is there any proof that a dragon can burn an Other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Is there any proof that a dragon can burn an Other? Not yet, but it's a definitely possibility. Dragonfire is hot enough or magical enough (or both) to melt stone. At the very least they would be incredibly helpful for dealing with masses of wight infantry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Nezza86 said: Haha imagine how The story would differ if everyone in westeros settled their differences by drawing straws. Or by Rock Paper Scissors lizard Spock haha. I think that would be Rock, Paper, Scissors, Dragon, Maester. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza86 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, hiemal said: To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a sword isn't just a sword. While there might be an actual piece of metal called "Lightbringer" I think that on a more fundamental level LB is the dragons and the blood pact that binds people to them and that Ice is a similar token of a bond that brought the Stark's into Winter's family. Ice being melted down is just a formality- the Stark's long ago turned their backs on their hiemal origins and embraced a new role as wardens and protectors. So the stories of thoros setting his sword on fire or when we physically saw Beric set his on fire by nothing more than cutting his hand with it, have no relevance on the legend of a flaming sword? Especially when we have irrefutable proof that VS is particularly fire resistant. And we seem to have a story that's shifted from the starks to the lannisters around the same time that ICE has passed hands between the family. Lightbringer is definitely not the dragons, if the ending is that drogon breathes fire on the nights king to kill him then I'm donating all my books and blu rays to the charity shop haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: Not yet, but it's a definitely possibility. Dragonfire is hot enough or magical enough (or both) to melt stone. At the very least they would be incredibly helpful for dealing with masses of wight infantry. I do believe that the dragons can burn the wights but I believe that is more the possible that the dragons will freeze to death or that they will be killed by the Others than they will burn the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza86 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Jon's Queen Consort said: Is there any proof that a dragon can burn an Other? Not irrefutable, but dragon glass kills them and I always think obsidian is some form of rock leftover from volcanic activity and the dragons are fire made flesh. So there's a link to it though it is definitely tenuous. Agreed though that is something that's still to be proven. Probably not a bad assumption though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said: I do believe that the dragons can burn the wights but I believe that is more the possible that the dragons will freeze to death or that they will be killed by the Others than they will burn the Others. They are living fire factories. They're not likely to freeze to death given that they produce their own heat. The Others have to be close to something to kill them, given their propensity for cold (either coming with it or bringing it with them) I'm not certain they'd be able to kill a dragon. We haven't seen them use any weapons other than swords so far and you have to be within a certain range to kill with a sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza86 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: I think that would be Rock, Paper, Scissors, Dragon, Maester. You just made me snort I laughed so hard haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezza86 Posted February 18, 2017 Author Share Posted February 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: Not yet, but it's a definitely possibility. Dragonfire is hot enough or magical enough (or both) to melt stone. At the very least they would be incredibly helpful for dealing with masses of wight infantry. No way???? Is it? Do you have quotes? Dawn can't be LB then since it's made from a meteorite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Ravens Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, hiemal said: To paraphrase Freud, sometimes a sword isn't just a sword. While there might be an actual piece of metal called "Lightbringer" I think that on a more fundamental level LB is the dragons and the blood pact that binds people to them and that Ice is a similar token of a bond that brought the Stark's into Winter's family. Ice being melted down is just a formality- the Stark's long ago turned their backs on their hiemal origins and embraced a new role as wardens and protectors. It's nitpicky, I know, but the Freud quote would more closely state "sometimes a sword is just a sword". This is in line with my attitude towards the many sword theories floating about on these forums. Lightbringer is a sword out of the fogs of legend and ancient history. It may not have ever existed how it is literally described in the legend of AA. At any rate all these magical swords are tied up in much legend and mystery in the books and have taken on a great deal of perceived importance here in speculation land. I'm inclined to think that Lightbringer will embody an idea, or serve as a metaphor but won't actually appear as a real physical sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Just now, Nezza86 said: No way???? Is it? Do you have quotes? Dawn can't be LB then since it's made from a meteorite. I'm sure there are quotes somewhere, but really the only thing you need for proof is Harrenhal. The towers weren't all twisted and eerie until the Targaryens attacked with dragonfire. I don't think it rules out Dawn being LB though. 1 minute ago, White Ravens said: It's nitpicky, I know, but the Freud quote would more closely state "sometimes a sword is just a sword". This is in line with my attitude towards the many sword theories floating about on these forums. Lightbringer is a sword out of the fogs of legend and ancient history. It may not have ever existed how it is literally described in the legend of AA. At any rate all these magical swords are tied up in much legend and mystery in the books and have taken on a great deal of perceived importance here in speculation land. I'm inclined to think that Lightbringer will embody an idea, or serve as a metaphor but won't actually appear as a real physical sword. I believe that's why hiemal used the term "paraphrase." To paraphrase is to restate something in different terms. Changing the meaning slightly is allowable in paraphrasing. I don't know. The Others have real, physical swords. I would think there should be a comparable equivalent men could use, but to defeat them overall is probably going to mean taking out their source and a sword may not cut it for that. Might require a dragon. It will be interesting if we get the rest of the Last Hero story and it includes the making of a special sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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