NFL Divisional Playoffs: 3 games and Brady

[Reny of Storms End]

1 hour ago, Rockroi said:

Yeah.  Remember many people believe Jim Brown is the greatest football player of all time, not Rice.  Also, Lawrence Taylor was absurd.  

Regardless, I think Rodgers is playing at an elite-plus level right now.  I think, though, Brady in 2007 was better, but I don't know what the advanced metrics would say on that.  I will also say that I think Rodgers has the same "gift" that Brady does - most notably that their offensive weapons are not as good as their QB makes them (Rodgers had a couple of very good WRs; Brady had Moss and Gronk; every one else, the QB was significantly better than the weapon).  

Again, Rodgers is killing teams in the most dramatic ways possible, especially these last two games with an end-of-half Hail Mary and a game-stealing 35-yard completion on 3rd and twenty to set up a game-winning FG.  Also, Rodgers' regular-season record is pretty good too (IIRC its 90-45).  

At the same time, Brady has been consistently exceptional.  Just randomly looking at any point in Brady's career, Brady has either been lights-out in the playoffs, putting up stupendous numbers, or carrying a sub-optimal team into the playoffs (2005, 2006, 2011 - a superbowl season, 2013, 2015) or all of the above.  And his 2014 Superbowl game was insane- going 13-15, 165 yards and 2 TDs on the last two drives against a top-tier D.  And he threw for 50 Tds that one time.  

But I could point to Rodgers' Superbowl season and find all the times he looked like he was the King. 

Let me say that RIGHT NOW, Aaron Rodgers is the best QB in the NFL and he would be anyone's first choice to QB a team.  Brady's edge comes from the fact that at 39; that he's been doing it at a high level for so long and he's doing it right now at an absurd level. Brady, at 39, is, AT WORSE, the third best QB in the NFL.  

Could go either way. 

Anyway, let's make fun of Rodger Goodell. 

Rodger Goodell, who famously broke up a fight at a bar that nobody can corroborate in any way whatsoever, is now too scared to attend the AFC Championship game, pout of fear that he may have to hand a trophy over to people he doesn't like.  So, LAST WEEK, Goodell attended the Falcons game vs Detroit.  So, traditionally, the Commissioner does NOT attend a game hosted by the same team two weeks in a row.  So, it was pretty clear that Rodger SHOULD attend the AFC Championship game here in Foxboro.  BUT, Rodger, FOR SOME ODD REASON, will NOT attend the Pats-Steelers game but will, instead, GO BACK TO ATLANTA and attend the NFC Championship game.

What a strong, dedicated and fearless leader the NFL has. 

Does Goodell actually dislike the Patriots though? I've never agreed with the idea that Goodell would hate to hand over the Lombardi to Kraft or a MVP to Brady. I think mostly this is fan wish fulfillment.

[Cas Stark]

8 minutes ago, Reny of Storms End said:

Does Goodell actually dislike the Patriots though? I've never agreed with the idea that Goodell would hate to hand over the Lombardi to Kraft or a MVP to Brady. I think mostly this is fan wish fulfillment.

It appears that he does yes, the best that can be said is he is acting on the wishes of the other owners who hate the Patriots and want to see them stop winning.  There is no other rationale for deflategate, I will even throw in spygate, as in hindsight it looks less like a reasonable punishment of the 'new sheriff in town'  and more of Roger Goodell's now legendary random decision making on punishments.

[Fez]

4 hours ago, Nictarion said:

I think Wayne Gretzky is hands down the GOAT as far as hockey goes. Jordan for basketball. Football and Baseball are harder to pick that one player.

Agreed on Gretzky and Jordan, no question (for now; though I still think there's the tiniest chance LeBron will take his spot in the end). Baseball is tricky both because its hard to find the clear separation for the #1 and because pitchers are so different from the other players (and get more recognition than goalies do in hockey). There's probably a way of doing it though; or at least greatest pitcher and greatest non-pitcher.

I think Football is impossible; because the positions are so specialized and different from each other. I think its very difficult but theoretically possible to come up with a GOAT for each position; but not an overall GOAT for the sport. Maybe you could reduce that to greatest QB, offensive skills position, lineman, and DB, or something like that; but that'd be as far as it goes.

[Rockroi]

19 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Not to defend The Ginger Hammer, but I'd take Atl vs GB over Pats vs Steelers. That game is likely to be an insane display of non-stop razzle-dazzle. Not seeing much controversy here.

As long as Rodger states "The reason I chose Atlnata-GB is because it will be a better game." 

If he says that, I will take back my criticism.  

The reality is... he knows.  He knows the atmosphere up here.  And he knows he does not want to experience that right now. 

 

[dbunting]

4 hours ago, Nictarion said:

I think Wayne Gretzky is hands down the GOAT as far as hockey goes. Jordan for basketball. Football and Baseball are harder to pick that one player.

Is it that easy for Jordan though?

                 Career  PPG     Reb    Assist     Best from each category      PPG      Reb     Assist

Michael Jordan -    30.1      6.2    5.3                                                        37.1       8           8                                                        

Oscar Robertson - 25.7      7.5    9.5                                                         31.4     12.5    11.5

The numbers are a lot closer than most would think, so then it comes back to era played in and value of one stat over another. Oscar is also the only player to ever avg a triple double for an entire season. Right now the NBA is going crazy because Westbrook has like 12 this season, imagine Robertson getting his best season stats now.

 

Mostly looked this up because I was interested to see.        

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, Fez said:

Agreed on Gretzky and Jordan, no question (for now; though I still think there's the tiniest chance LeBron will take his spot in the end). Baseball is tricky both because its hard to find the clear separation for the #1 and because pitchers are so different from the other players (and get more recognition than goalies do in hockey). There's probably a way of doing it though; or at least greatest pitcher and greatest non-pitcher.

I think Football is impossible; because the positions are so specialized and different from each other. I think its very difficult but theoretically possible to come up with a GOAT for each position; but not an overall GOAT for the sport. Maybe you could reduce that to greatest QB, offensive skills position, lineman, and DB, or something like that; but that'd be as far as it goes.

Can that even be done? What would Johnny Unitas stats look like in the current pass happy, pass friendly league?  What would Dan Marino's record be in the age of free agency where Shula could have shelled out some bucks for a star receiver?  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

4 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

As long as Rodger states "The reason I chose Atlnata-GB is because it will be a better game." 

If he says that, I will take back my criticism.  

The reality is... he knows.  He knows the atmosphere up here.  And he knows he does not want to experience that right now. 

 

Yeah, I'll give you that. I'm sure that factors in. Still, if you're not a Pats or Steelers fan, I can't imagine you'd choose to freeze your ass off in Foxboro over a nice comfy dome. And I think it's fairly likely to be a more exciting game to boot.

[Rockroi]

4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It appears that he does yes, the best that can be said is he is acting on the wishes of the other owners who hate the Patriots and want to see them stop winning.  There is no other rationale for deflategate, I will even throw in spygate, as in hindsight it looks less like a reasonable punishment of the 'new sheriff in town'  and more of Roger Goodell's now legendary random decision making on punishments.

I think that you are on the right track with this and, if you combine these together, get at the truth.

I believe that the owners were angry with what they perceived as a light sanction against the Pats for Spygate (close to $1M in fines, loss of  a first round pick all to get skull-fucked by the Pats thereafter).  The owners wanted a more robust penalty.  And if I were a NFL owner and my team sucked that bad I would want the Pats overly punished so I could absolve myself of my own incompetency too.  

So when Deflategate rolled around, the owners basically sent the message to Rodger that this time he had to bring the pain.  So, he docked the Pats more draft picks, suspended Brady for 4 games (even though Goodell never explained to anyone why he punished Brady under the PED section of the CBA; how come he never warned Brady he would do that; and that the Ideal Gas Law exists... yup... that all happened).  

To me, the two are too connected - hyper-insecure owners, desperate to blame their failings on "cheating" and disappointed with the way the League handled "Spygate" came down on Goodell to severely punish the Pats for Deflategate.

Oh, and two teams are moving because they failed to adequately fuck-over their fan bases with absurd stadium "deals" for their teams so the Chargers are moving to LA and the Raiders to Las Vegas.  

These are the shit-heals behind Deflategate.  They can all get fucked by a rabid gorilla.  

[Maithanet]

3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Can that even be done? What would Johnny Unitas stats look like in the current pass happy, pass friendly league?  What would Dan Marino's record be in the age of free agency where Shula could have shelled out some bucks for a star receiver?  

Comparing across eras is always difficult, but it can be done.  You just have to compare each player's dominance vs his contemporaries, and see how they stack up.  How much better was Johnny Unitas vs Bart Starr or Joe Namath?    This usually works pretty well, although it sometimes fails if one player's contemporaries aren't very good (for example, Roger Federer was virtually unchallenged until Nadal and Djokovic arrived on the scene).

But I think we can all agree that the GOAT is Donald Bradman. 

[Rockroi]

1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Yeah, I'll give you that. I'm sure that factors in. Still, if you're not a Pats or Steelers fan, I can't imagine you'd choose to freeze your ass off in Foxboro over a nice comfy dome. And I think it's fairly likely to be a more exciting game to boot.

Agreed,  

If I were a stand-alone fan, attached to no team, I would pick seeing Atlanta v. GB.  For starters, I would be SICK of seeing the Pats.  Second, Matt Ryan getting to his first SB seems exciting and then there is Rodgers playing the best of any QB in the NFL right now.  Next would be the weather ... there won't be any in the dome.  I hate being at Pats games ... AND I'M A FAN!  Its cold.  Its really, really cold.  

But I'm making fun of Rodger and not third-party fans who I want to just enjoy themselves; I want Rodger to resign in disgrace.  

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Just now, Rockroi said:

I think that you are on the right track with this and, if you combine these together, get at the truth.

I believe that the owners were angry with what they perceived as a light sanction against the Pats for Spygate (close to $1M in fines, loss of  a first round pick all to get skull-fucked by the Pats thereafter).  The owners wanted a more robust penalty.  And if I were a NFL owner and my team sucked that bad I would want the Pats overly punished so I could absolve myself of my own incompetency too.  

So when Deflategate rolled around, the owners basically sent the message to Rodger that this time he had to bring the pain.  So, he docked the Pats more draft picks, suspended Brady for 4 games (even though Goodell never explained to anyone why he punished Brady under the PED section of the CBA; how come he never warned Brady he would do that; and that the Ideal Gas Law exists... yup... that all happened).  

To me, the two are too connected - hyper-insecure owners, desperate to blame their failings on "cheating" and disappointed with the way the League handled "Spygate" came down on Goodell to severely punish the Pats for Deflategate.

Oh, and two teams are moving because they failed to adequately fuck-over their fan bases with absurd stadium "deals" for their teams so the Chargers are moving to LA and the Raiders to Las Vegas.  

These are the shit-heals behind Deflategate.  They can all get fucked by a rabid gorilla.  

On top of all that it seems to me that both Goodell and Kraft let things get personal. Remember Kraft said (I think it was during the week leading up to the Superb Owl with the Seahawks) that once the investigation showed them to be innocent, that the Commish owed them a personal apology. I'm pretty sure Tommy Watermelons also cast some shade at him throughout the course of the controversy. Not to suggest that Goodell wasn't playing the same game, but it seems to me the Pats responded in kind. 

[Maithanet]

Also I think that Goodell just wants Deflategate to go away as a story.  If he goes to NE, the fans and broadcasters will bring it up endlessly, and that doesn't help the NFL at all.  Not that he always does it, but "protect the shield" is, ya know, his job. 

[Rockroi]

Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

On top of all that it seems to me that both Goodell and Kraft let things get personal. Remember Kraft said (I think it was during the week leading up to the Superb Owl with the Seahawks) that once the investigation showed them to be innocent, that the Commish owed them a personal apology. I'm pretty sure Tommy Watermelons also cast some shade at him throughout the course of the controversy. Not to suggest that Goodell wasn't playing the same game, but it seems to me the Pats responded in kind. 

This did all happen. I agree they let it get personal, especially Kraft who, if truth be told, screwed up by accepting the loss of picks and fines.  I bet he thought that by doing this Goodell would deescalate v. Brady, but for reasons we already went over, he would not.  

[Cas Stark]

25 minutes ago, Rockroi said:

I think that you are on the right track with this and, if you combine these together, get at the truth.

I believe that the owners were angry with what they perceived as a light sanction against the Pats for Spygate (close to $1M in fines, loss of  a first round pick all to get skull-fucked by the Pats thereafter).  The owners wanted a more robust penalty.  And if I were a NFL owner and my team sucked that bad I would want the Pats overly punished so I could absolve myself of my own incompetency too.  

So when Deflategate rolled around, the owners basically sent the message to Rodger that this time he had to bring the pain.  So, he docked the Pats more draft picks, suspended Brady for 4 games (even though Goodell never explained to anyone why he punished Brady under the PED section of the CBA; how come he never warned Brady he would do that; and that the Ideal Gas Law exists... yup... that all happened).  

To me, the two are too connected - hyper-insecure owners, desperate to blame their failings on "cheating" and disappointed with the way the League handled "Spygate" came down on Goodell to severely punish the Pats for Deflategate.

Oh, and two teams are moving because they failed to adequately fuck-over their fan bases with absurd stadium "deals" for their teams so the Chargers are moving to LA and the Raiders to Las Vegas.  

These are the shit-heals behind Deflategate.  They can all get fucked by a rabid gorilla.  

How though was the Spygate punishment light?  I mean, you were allowed at that time to film the other team from the stands, just not the sideline.  Other teams did it also.  It seems to me in hindsight that the spygate punishment was wildly disproportionate and led to the image of the Patriots as cheaters who don't deserve their rings...which even if it were true, which it isn't, would still be destructive to the game itself.  

I think the truth is that BB, arrogant asshole that he is, IS the greatest NFL in history and no one thought that a team could be dominant in this age of caps/free agency/etc. etc. and the rest of the NFL is just sick of it, and Goodell w/deflategate was trying to disadvantage the Pats, because everyone in the NFL front office cannot actually be so stupid as to believe the BS in their filings or the Wells report.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

How though was the Spygate punishment light?  I mean, you were allowed at that time to film the other team from the stands, just not the sideline.  Other teams did it also.  It seems to me in hindsight that the spygate punishment was wildly disproportionate and led to the image of the Patriots as cheaters who don't deserve their rings...which even if it were true, which it isn't, would still be destructive to the game itself.  

I think the truth is that BB, arrogant asshole that he is, IS the greatest NFL in history and no one thought that a team could be dominant in this age of caps/free agency/etc. etc. and the rest of the NFL is just sick of it, and Goodell w/deflategate was trying to disadvantage the Pats, because everyone in the NFL front office cannot actually be so stupid as to believe the BS in their filings or the Wells report.

While I'd agree that the image of the Patriots as cheaters who don't deserve their rings is hyperbole, no one did taping on the level that the Pats did. They had crews who taped over their logos and said they were from NFL films walking around the stadium. And I think it's fair to say that they were degrees better at disassembling that information. (Which isn't a knock, it just goes back to how well run that organization is)

 Belichick probably is the best their ever was, but he is also an arrogant asshole, and it cost him here. Regardless as to whether or not everyone was doing it or not (they were), he was the only one who continued doing it after the memo was sent out.

[Reny of Storms End]

17 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

How though was the Spygate punishment light?  I mean, you were allowed at that time to film the other team from the stands, just not the sideline.  Other teams did it also.  It seems to me in hindsight that the spygate punishment was wildly disproportionate and led to the image of the Patriots as cheaters who don't deserve their rings...which even if it were true, which it isn't, would still be destructive to the game itself.  

I think the truth is that BB, arrogant asshole that he is, IS the greatest NFL in history and no one thought that a team could be dominant in this age of caps/free agency/etc. etc. and the rest of the NFL is just sick of it, and Goodell w/deflategate was trying to disadvantage the Pats, because everyone in the NFL front office cannot actually be so stupid as to believe the BS in their filings or the Wells report.

I'm just not seeing how a team that's won one SB in the past decade could be seen in such a light. I can get behind the idea that some of the punishment for Deflategate was to make up for a percieved lighter punishment during Spygate. That's it though, in my mind only Patriots fans believe this idea that the league is out to get them. It's not like they were punished over a regular season game either. Deflategate was the AFC Championship game. I think too often that is just thrown right out the window like it doesn't matter. I do realize my own bias might be clouding my judgement, but that's how I see it. 

ETA: The punishments were too severe, but this is Goodell we are talking about. The guy just throws darts at a board to figure out what is appropriate. 

[DanteGabriel]

Do Steeler fans like to cite this "Super Bowls in the last decade" statistic because then they can claim two championships while the Pats have one?

I see this a lot in comment threads. I wonder about the logistics too. Will you feel sad in a year when the ref-assisted victory over the Seahawks doesn't count in your metric any more, or will Pittsburgh's preferred window of relevance merely extend to include it? And would you be more likely to buy a workout video entitled Seven Minute Abs over the Eight Minute Abs?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Rockroi said:

 

Rodger Goodell, who famously broke up a fight at a bar that nobody can corroborate in any way whatsoever, is now too scared to attend the AFC Championship game, pout of fear that he may have to hand a trophy over to people he doesn't like.  So, LAST WEEK, Goodell attended the Falcons game vs Detroit.  So, traditionally, the Commissioner does NOT attend a game hosted by the same team two weeks in a row.  So, it was pretty clear that Rodger SHOULD attend the AFC Championship game here in Foxboro.  BUT, Rodger, FOR SOME ODD REASON, will NOT attend the Pats-Steelers game but will, instead, GO BACK TO ATLANTA and attend the NFC Championship game.

What a strong, dedicated and fearless leader the NFL has. 

He's not afraid of handing Kraft the trophy. He's afraid of what will happen if the Pats lose. 

[Week]

The Chargers are continuing to just really kill it. Props.

http://deadspin.com/the-chargers-logo-died-on-its-way-back-to-its-home-plan-1791327570

“The logo that was revealed on Thursday was meant to help launch our brand into the market and supplement — not replace — our official team marks,” Chargers president of business operations A.G. Spanos said in a statement provided to PFT. “Clearly, we miscalculated how the logo would be received, and we’ve taken it out of the rotation.”

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

12 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

And would you be more likely to buy a workout video entitled Seven Minute Abs over the Eight Minute Abs?

AND NO ONE DENIES THIS!

 

/It wouldn't be the postseason without TAHMMY FROM QUINZEE...