How Sansa Takes Winterfell with a Winged Knight: Swapping a Hound for her own Little Bird

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

16 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

So, although I like the idea that the Hound might want her notice, I'm also wondering if the cloak has to be fastened with a jeweled broach under Joffrey and the Lannisters.

I'm not so sure.  Barristan's is just held with plain clasps I think.  Sandor gets away with doing his own thing quite a bit.  He is not required to take the vows and he certainly wouldn't want look like Boros if he could help it.  He doesn't even wear his own house colors to disassociate himself from most knightly ornamentation.  The jeweled brooch just sticks out as something very atypical for him.  From another thread I was having about this scene, Sandor's open fondness for Tommen and Myrcella is showing.  He laughs and supports Myrcella's comment about being children supposed to be childish.  He interrupts Joffrey's conversation with Sansa to note how courageous Tommen is for trying the joust again, also supporting Sansa's kind view of Tommen.  Those little things just hint he wants Sansa's attention and to show her he's not such a bad guy and also a little sick of Joffrey ####-blocking him from interacting with her.  

16 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

A very good point--if Baelish loses his three hidden knives, that could very well undermine him. And the Kettleblacks do know things that could hurt Baelish--as does Sansa.

And Baelish does tell Sansa in Feast that the Royces won't oppose him on their own--but the info the Kettlblacks and Sansa have could definitely get Bronze Yohn support against Baelish.

Exactly.  She has opportunities here for allies that could get messages to Gulltown and Runestone.  She has actually already caught Petyr in a lie about Yohn Royce, though it's not consciously "spoken" of.  Before the Lords Declarant meeting, she considers revealing herself to Yohn Royce, but she stops herself.  She was either withheld information or outright lied to, because she believes Yohn Royce did not want to fight for Robb so he likely wouldn't help her.  It's later in a conversation with Petyr that he tells her Yohn Royce did want to fight for Robb but it was Lysa that held them back.  I think that was a slip up on Petyr's part.  Now she just needs a way to connect to Yohn Royce, but so far he's left Runestone, but...

Spoiler

What allies might Yohn Royce have sent to the Gates for the tourney to spy for him?  Maybe some of his own bannermen or maybe some Redforts?  Always expect the unexpected at a tourney.  

 

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Ser Kevan cleared his throat. "I would sooner have Petyr Baelish ruling the Eyrie than any of Lady Lysa's other suitors. Yohn Royce, Lyn Corbray, Horton Redfort . . . these are dangerous men, each in his own way. And proud. Littlefinger may be clever, but he has neither high birth nor skill at arms. The lords of the Vale will never accept such as their liege.

We need to watch these guys.  As far as Harrenhal goes, the place is mentioned sooooooo many times it's got to prove strategic importance at some point.  Right now, Sansa has the best link to it.  Through her Whent grandmother (old lady Whent may still be alive), Petyr is the current holder, and she keeps getting associated with bats.  And Harrenhal is near the God's Eye, home to the greenmen.  That's a strong magic location that may be needed to fight the Others.  Arya has her connections there as well, but I think she has the stronger link to the Twins and thus Riverrun.  Between the Vale and Riverlands, there's access to waterways that will likely prove very important for mobilization of men and supplies.  There's also the natural choke point of Moat Cailin and the Neck.  I think all these coming back under some Northern control will be very important in the future.  

 

46 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

In that moment, Jon's not skin changing Ghost, but he's hearing and smelling as Ghost does. And then seeing all of the people as just "men"--not wildlings, etc. Jon's seeing people as Ghost sees them

This is a really good catch.  It's evidence for a skin-changer to be able to "sense" through their bonded animal without actually skin-changing into them.  I think this might be the fundmental step to full-on skin-changing.

49 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

Sansa and the Hound--arguably they change each other's perspectives a bit. Given that Martin does tie Sansa's bond with Lady and her wishing for Lady to the Hound--I'm wondering if moments like her wearing his colors are possibly like her. . . seeing things from his perspective

There's definite parallels in the arcs between the gravedigger and Alayne transitional period.  Mirroring the clothing could be symbolic of changing skins and showing it's kind of a two-way street.  When she subconsciously chooses the yellow ribbon, it may not be just merely artistic embellishment, but maybe pin-pointing a moment she was sensing him (or even a moment he was thinking or talking about her).  Arya can sense Nymeria even across great distances.  We know from ELder Brother's monologue that he knew exactly who Sansa Stark is and it's probably cause Sandor hasn't shut up about it.       

 

[Sly Wren]

1 hour ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

I'm not so sure.  Barristan's is just held with plain clasps I think.  Sandor gets away with doing his own thing quite a bit.  He is not required to take the vows and he certainly wouldn't want look like Boros if he could help it.  He doesn't even wear his own house colors to disassociate himself from most knightly ornamentation.  The jeweled brooch just sticks out as something very atypical for him.

HA! Yes--I doubt the Hound would be going to Boros--or anyone--for fashion advice.

And I've been reading Boros' brooch in that moment as a marker that he's Cersei's (and possibly Tywin's) man.

I agree the brooch is atypical--am now wondering if Joff might have ordered him to wear it. And am now imagining the Hound being forced into a makeover show. Not good.

1 hour ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

From another thread I was having about this scene, Sandor's open fondness for Tommen and Myrcella is showing.  He laughs and supports Myrcella's comment about being children supposed to be childish.  He interrupts Joffrey's conversation with Sansa to note how courageous Tommen is for trying the joust again, also supporting Sansa's kind view of Tommen.  Those little things just hint he wants Sansa's attention and to show her he's not such a bad guy and also a little sick of Joffrey ####-blocking him from interacting with her.  

Good points! And in this scene, Sansa, too, manipulates Joff to get what she wants. Could be the Hound is trying to get Sansa's notice. But am also wondering if this might also be the two of them influencing each other in that warg-like relationship. . . . especially with the niceness to Tommen and Myrcella.

1 hour ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Exactly.  She has opportunities here for allies that could get messages to Gulltown and Runestone.  She has actually already caught Petyr in a lie about Yohn Royce, though it's not consciously "spoken" of.  Before the Lords Declarant meeting, she considers revealing herself to Yohn Royce, but she stops herself.  She was either withheld information or outright lied to, because she believes Yohn Royce did not want to fight for Robb so he likely wouldn't help her.  It's later in a conversation with Petyr that he tells her Yohn Royce did want to fight for Robb but it was Lysa that held them back.  I think that was a slip up on Petyr's part.

Good catch! I'd been focusing on how Sansa hears from Lysa that Bronze Yohn wanted to support Robb. But seems like Sansa didn't believe that until getting confirmation. And, given Lysa was her source, waiting for confirmation seems wise.

ETA: So--looks like Sansa's awareness of her assets seems to be growing slowly.

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Now she just needs a way to connect to Yohn Royce, but so far he's left Runestone, but...

 

What allies might Yohn Royce have sent to the Gates for the tourney to spy for him?  Maybe some of his own bannermen or maybe some Redforts?  Always expect the unexpected at a tourney.

And expect Bronze Yohn to be keeping eyes and ears out for info on the Starks and on Baelish. Which could spur him into action. I'm assuming Rhinestone must have its own access to the sea--though I'm basing that on the maps, not the books.

1 hour ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

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Ser Kevan cleared his throat. "I would sooner have Petyr Baelish ruling the Eyrie than any of Lady Lysa's other suitors. Yohn Royce, Lyn Corbray, Horton Redfort . . . these are dangerous men, each in his own way. And proud. Littlefinger may be clever, but he has neither high birth nor skill at arms. The lords of the Vale will never accept such as their liege.

We need to watch these guys.

Amen--and even dangerous to Sansa unless she can see a way to use them.

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As far as Harrenhal goes, the place is mentioned sooooooo many times it's got to prove strategic importance at some point.

Agreed.

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Right now, Sansa has the best link to it.  Through her Whent grandmother (old lady Whent may still be alive), Petyr is the current holder, and she keeps getting associated with bats.

Maybe--are you thinking of the "wolf with wings" stuff? I've been thinking that might be more a tie to Bran and the winged wolf. Skinchanging. Like what I think the Winged Knight was--skinchanging a falcon.

Or are you thinking of something else I'm not seeing?

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And Harrenhal is near the God's Eye, home to the greenmen.  That's a strong magic location that may be needed to fight the Others.  Arya has her connections there as well, but I think she has the stronger link to the Twins and thus Riverrun.  Between the Vale and Riverlands, there's access to waterways that will likely prove very important for mobilization of men and supplies.  There's also the natural choke point of Moat Cailin and the Neck.  I think all these coming back under some Northern control will be very important in the future.  

Agreed--or under Northern friendly control.

1 hour ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

This is a really good catch.  It's evidence for a skin-changer to be able to "sense" through their bonded animal without actually skin-changing into them.  I think this might be the fundmental step to full-on skin-changing.

I can't remember where I first saw this idea--but it struck me, too. And makes me think of Sansa's signing to the Hound and her touch--like Jon putting his arm around Ghost. Something in that moment--Jon sees the world as Ghost does. And when Sansa sings and touches the Hound, he treats her as she wishes to be treated--sees the world a bit more as she does. Maybe.

1 hour ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

There's definite parallels in the arcs between the gravedigger and Alayne transitional period.  Mirroring the clothing could be symbolic of changing skins and showing it's kind of a two-way street.  When she subconsciously chooses the yellow ribbon, it may not be just merely artistic embellishment, but maybe pin-pointing a moment she was sensing him (or even a moment he was thinking or talking about her).

Or even has been permanently changed by him? Sansa's never really gotten over Lady. There's that stuff in the novels about animals being easier to skinchange if they've been "ridden" by other skinchangers before. As though there's a permanent change.

I doubt Martin will even give us a clear answer to this. But the imagery around Sansa and the Hound in this vein is provocative--at least in my head.

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Arya can sense Nymeria even across great distances.  We know from ELder Brother's monologue that he knew exactly who Sansa Stark is and it's probably cause Sandor hasn't shut up about it.       

Nice! I'd forgotten that bit. So, he can shed some of his Hound self, but not his Sansa self?

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

59 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

I agree the brooch is atypical--am now wondering if Joff might have ordered him to wear it. And am now imagining the Hound being forced into a makeover show. Not good.

Oh he'd be in a much saltier mood. LOL

59 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

especially with the niceness to Tommen and Myrcella

It was kind of like working in tandem, like a co-parenting cheering on the sidelines.

59 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

I'm assuming Rhinestone must have its own access to the sea--though I'm basing that on the maps, not the books.

Yes.  It is mentioned Runestone has it's own port.

59 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

Amen--and even dangerous to Sansa unless she can see a way to use them.

Redfort I think is a friend to Yohn Royce, so I'm leaning toward friendly.  Lyn Corbray is the wildcard.  He's in Petyr's pay, but he's also deeply resentful of Petyr arranging his brother to marry and produce an heir.  He was also a suitor to Lysa and Petyr screwed him  out of that too.  I won't say friendly, because if he found out who Sansa was, would he try to claim the bounty on her.?  I say yes. 

59 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

Maybe--are you thinking of the "wolf with wings" stuff? I've been thinking that might be more a tie to Bran and the winged wolf. Skinchanging. Like what I think the Winged Knight was--skinchanging a falcon.

Or are you thinking of something else I'm not seeing?

There's that -- wolf with bat wings.  She also described a fluttering in her tummy like she "swallowed a bat."  Her connection to Harrenhal and Whents -- perhaps even Mad Danelle Lothston.  I think IsobelHarper also had an essay linking Arya to falling asleep at the hour of the wolf and Sansa probably falling asleep at the hour of the bat, when they were keeping vigil in the godswood with Ned.  There's also a quote from Ser Shadrich to her

Spoiler

"a winged mouse would be a silly sight" which sounds like a play on winged mouse = fledermaus = "flying mouse" = bat.  In my thread I linked, I have a line of thinking of "flying mice" being a play on words to link to magic.  Bats being connected to Mad Danelle the sorceress, and Shadrich the "Mad Mouse" being HR, a sorceror and crannogman, described by Meera as being able to "run on leaves" like a squirrel.  Jojen describes Meera as being able to "fly through trees.":  A squirrel dashing around through trees kinda resembles a "flying mouse" motif.  And "squirrels" are a euphemism for CotF.  

Considering Bran and Sansa have much in common, I would not be shocked if she turned out to be a different kind of winged wolf.  It looks like all the Stark kids have more than one animal pairing with wolf.  Arya: cats.  Bran and Jon: ravens.  Sansa: birds and bats.  

59 minutes ago, Sly Wren said:

Or even has been permanently changed by him? Sansa's never really gotten over Lady. There's that stuff in the novels about animals being easier to skinchange if they've been "ridden" by other skinchangers before. As though there's a permanent change.

Yes.  Varamyr doesn't have to be in direct control of his animals to be bonded to them.  He can still ride his bear without having to skin-change into it to make it tame.  While I don't think Sansa was ever in control of an animal or person in that direct way and her influence is compassionate and benign, I think it possible he was more primed and pliable to accept change from the Elder Brother once she shattered the Hound persona.  One instance of touching Lancel and he was primed to be changed by the Faith, although that may not turn out so good.  I think a human may have to be somewhat more willing.  She tried to touch and be compassionate to Joffrey, but he resisted.  LF has touched her a lot, but she has no desire for intimacy with him and keeps him closed off with her Alayne mask.   

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So, he can shed some of his Hound self, but not his Sansa self?

 Well the Hound is his own creation for survival, but has also brought suffering along with it.  I don't think that's who he truly is inside or who he actually wants to be.  I do believe he is on a course to be transformed into a wolf and join her "pack" as an equal.  Not a dog/master relationship.  

 

 

 

[Lord Wraith]

On 1/25/2017 at 2:38 PM, Sly Wren said:

I agree that Un-Cat The Maleficent would want to crown Sansa. 

And kill Baelish.

And I agree they could travel through the Riverlands--though the books have reminded us a few times of Gulltown and Baelish's ability to travel and get word by sea. And Stannis' army getting north to the Wall by sea.

But I'm struggling to see Sansa's or even Baelish's desire to spend time in the Riverlands--are you thinking he'd want revenge on the Freys? Or on the Tullys by retaking Riverrun? 

So far, Sansa's references to the Freys, while hostile, have been limited. We do have Bronze Yohn make that angry jibe at Corbray about "are you a Corbray or a Frey?"  But so far, Sansa's focus seems to be on home--or on avoiding thoughts of home so she can keep playing her Alayne part--until she can go home.  . .

Or are you thinking they'd get mired in there if they try to just travel through?

Why would Uncat want to kill Baelish? He saved her daughter and will be killing Freys. We readers know  of what he has done but the mostly the characters have not. 

Most of the Lord's declarant were pro war and would line up for some Frey violence. Also several  Vale Lord's have claim on Frey holdings,  if the right Freys die of course. 

Baelish telling  Sansa that they are going  North is a lie,  the Riverlands is far more likely. 

 

[Springwatch]

Slight diversion, but I was really struck by this quote:

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Every time Joffrey looked at her, her tummy got so fluttery that she felt she'd swallowed a bat.

Another thread suggested it was foreshadowing for Sansa marrying a Targ, and having a dragon baby like Rhaego - which depressed me a great deal, considering the candidate fathers.

But I've got a better idea. Shortly before the quote above there was this:

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[Joffrey] "Don't be sad, Sansa, once I've gotten Queen Margaery with child I'll visit your bedchamber and show my little uncle how it's done."

and before that:

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[Dontos] "... And Joffrey ... sweetling, he is still king. If he wants you in his bed, he will have you, only now it will be bastards he plants in your womb instead of trueborn sons."

Poor Sansa!

Anyway, she gets the bat-in-tummy feeling whenever Joff looks at her.

Put this together with the theory that King Aerys fathered Joanna's children - and you get Sansa having a true premonition, a genuine fear of having Joff's Targ-blooded bastards. Which is all fine, because Joff is now completely out of her way.

[Sly Wren]

22 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Oh he'd be in a much saltier mood. LOL

But could be the most interesting episode of Queer Eye for the Straight Guy ever--first one to include dismemberment!

22 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Yes.  It is mentioned Runestone has it's own port.

Ah! Excellent! Makes Royce even more dangerous to Baelish. And makes me think again of the fact that Martin took time to tell us that Ned escaped from Aerys' decree to the Vale via the Sisters. Little details, but could e a set up for Sansa's going north by sea.

22 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Redfort I think is a friend to Yohn Royce, so I'm leaning toward friendly.  Lyn Corbray is the wildcard.  He's in Petyr's pay, but he's also deeply resentful of Petyr arranging his brother to marry and produce an heir.  He was also a suitor to Lysa and Petyr screwed him  out of that too.  I won't say friendly, because if he found out who Sansa was, would he try to claim the bounty on her.?  I say yes. 

Agreed re: Corbray--though if news from King's Landing keeps showing that place as increasingly unstable, Corbray might be bribe-able in another direction.

22 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

There's that -- wolf with bat wings.  She also described a fluttering in her tummy like she "swallowed a bat."  Her connection to Harrenhal and Whents -- perhaps even Mad Danelle Lothston.  I think IsobelHarper also had an essay linking Arya to falling asleep at the hour of the wolf and Sansa probably falling asleep at the hour of the bat, when they were keeping vigil in the godswood with Ned.  There's also a quote from Ser Shadrich to her

  Hide contents

"a winged mouse would be a silly sight" which sounds like a play on winged mouse = fledermaus = "flying mouse" = bat.  In my thread I linked, I have a line of thinking of "flying mice" being a play on words to link to magic.  Bats being connected to

Mad Danelle the sorceress, and Shadrich the "Mad Mouse" being HR, a sorceror and crannogman, described by Meera as being able to "run on leaves" like a squirrel.  Jojen describes Meera as being able to "fly through trees.":  A squirrel dashing around through trees kinda resembles a "flying mouse" motif.  And "squirrels" are a euphemism for CotF.

Considering Bran and Sansa have much in common, I would not be shocked if she turned out to be a different kind of winged wolf.  It looks like all the Stark kids have more than one animal pairing with wolf.  Arya: cats.  Bran and Jon: ravens.  Sansa: birds and bats.  

I could see this. I do think that winged wolf is tying both Sansa and Arya to Bran--a "wolf" who flies in birds. Others long before me have argued that the Winged Wolf might be a role or an office--like the 3 Eyed Crow. And, arguably, the "wolves" who can shin change other animals would all therefore be potential "winged wolves."

I struggle on the Harrenhal stuff--I agree that the place has to play a role--it already has, and seems like more is coming. But I struggle to make sense of where it's going. Which is probably mucking up my ability to follow you here. But I'm liking the Mad Mouse tie in.

22 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Yes.  Varamyr doesn't have to be in direct control of his animals to be bonded to them.  He can still ride his bear without having to skin-change into it to make it tame.  While I don't think Sansa was ever in control of an animal or person in that direct way and her influence is compassionate and benign, I think it possible he was more primed and pliable to accept change from the Elder Brother once she shattered the Hound persona.

Interesting--are you thinking the Elder Brother's influence is mystical? Or that Sansa's influence on the Hound made him. . . more devout, as she sometimes is?

22 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

One instance of touching Lancel and he was primed to be changed by the Faith, although that may not turn out so good.

HA! Poor Lancel. But it fits the "broken" tendency of those under Sansa's influence.

22 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

I think a human may have to be somewhat more willing.  She tried to touch and be compassionate to Joffrey, but he resisted.  LF has touched her a lot, but she has no desire for intimacy with him and keeps him closed off with her Alayne mask.   

Agreed--willing and maybe even somewhat broken. The Burned Men are probably just nice to her (in a limited sense) because of Tyrion. But all the others under her influence seem to be broken.

And, as you say, willing.

22 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Well the Hound is his own creation for survival, but has also brought suffering along with it.  I don't think that's who he truly is inside or who he actually wants to be.  I do believe he is on a course to be transformed into a wolf and join her "pack" as an equal.  Not a dog/master relationship.  

That would be very cool. Though I'm wondering if that's possible. Symbolically and practically, skinchangers only become "equal" with their animals by living on in them for the second life, right?

[Sly Wren]

16 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Why would Uncat want to kill Baelish? He saved her daughter and will be killing Freys. We readers know  of what he has done but the mostly the characters have not. 

I was thinking that in her current state, Uncat might be less willing to listen to Baelish's arguments for why he didn't protect Ned and Arya. Might be VERY suspicious.

16 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Most of the Lord's declarant were pro war and would line up for some Frey violence. Also several  Vale Lord's have claim on Frey holdings,  if the right Freys die of course. 

Yes--but that would also apply to taking Winterfell for the Stark in their Midst, no?

16 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

Baelish telling  Sansa that they are going  North is a lie,  the Riverlands is far more likely. 

Oh, yes--Baelish has plans he's not telling Sansa. He's only telling her what she wants to hear. But Martin's made sure Sansa has leverage against Baelish if she can figure out how to use said leverage. So, it may not matter what Baelish wants, but what Sansa wants.

And Sansa wants her home and family back--as much as she can get of them.

[Sly Wren]

6 hours ago, Springwatch said:

Slight diversion, but I was really struck by this quote:

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Every time Joffrey looked at her, her tummy got so fluttery that she felt she'd swallowed a bat.

Another thread suggested it was foreshadowing for Sansa marrying a Targ, and having a dragon baby like Rhaego - which depressed me a great deal, considering the candidate fathers.

But I've got a better idea. Shortly before the quote above there was this:

Quote

[Joffrey] "Don't be sad, Sansa, once I've gotten Queen Margaery with child I'll visit your bedchamber and show my little uncle how it's done."

and before that:

Quote

[Dontos] "... And Joffrey ... sweetling, he is still king. If he wants you in his bed, he will have you, only now it will be bastards he plants in your womb instead of trueborn sons."

Poor Sansa!

Anyway, she gets the bat-in-tummy feeling whenever Joff looks at her.

Put this together with the theory that King Aerys fathered Joanna's children - and you get Sansa having a true premonition, a genuine fear of having Joff's Targ-blooded bastards. Which is all fine, because Joff is now completely out of her way.

1. I've got no problem with diversions--all of my threads seem to turn into sandboxes at some point. So, diverge away!

2. Very interesting--might also work with the idea that Cersei is a die hard Targ wannabe. And that's helped make Joff monstrous, regardless. And his children would be monstrous.

But it's a tantalizing idea re: the literal Targ reference, no doubt. 

[Lord Wraith]

3 hours ago, Sly Wren said:

I was thinking that in her current state, Uncat might be less willing to listen to Baelish's arguments for why he didn't protect Ned and Arya. Might be VERY suspicious.

Yes--but that would also apply to taking Winterfell for the Stark in their Midst, no?

Oh, yes--Baelish has plans he's not telling Sansa. He's only telling her what she wants to hear. But Martin's made sure Sansa has leverage against Baelish if she can figure out how to use said leverage. So, it may not matter what Baelish wants, but what Sansa wants.

And Sansa wants her home and family back--as much as she can get of them.

With what army was Baelish supposed to Baelish sweep in and save Ned with from Cats perspective? 

I don't think  the Vale  lords want to  head North with winter coming.  Also the Boltons,  Stannis,  and Wildlings fighting for it 

The Vale lords have claim to several lordship in the River lands.  Baelish wants  his  seat,  revenge,  and the Lord's of the Vale and Riverlands behind him. 

[Sly Wren]

On January 28, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Lord Wraith said:

With what army was Baelish supposed to Baelish sweep in and save Ned with from Cats perspective?

A very fair point--from the perspective of a sane, non-vengeful being who hasn't been reanimated.

But UnCat's none of the above. She's very, very changed. Just thinking that meeting might not be all that happy.

On January 28, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Lord Wraith said:

I don't think  the Vale  lords want to  head North with winter coming.  Also the Boltons,  Stannis,  and Wildlings fighting for it 

Agreed--but it could depend on how much pull Sansa has on Robin, how much leverage she has over Baelish, and how much Bronze Yohn still wants to help Sansa. So far, Martin's taken care throughout the novels, and especially in Storm and Feast, to show us Sansa's growing "tool box" and the Royces' attachment to the North and the Starks. Seems like they really might have the leverage to pull this out.

On January 28, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Lord Wraith said:

The Vale lords have claim to several lordship in the River lands.  Baelish wants  his  seat,  revenge,  and the Lord's of the Vale and Riverlands behind him. 

True--but Baelish really might not be calling the shots. One way or another, that info about Ned's and Cat's deaths from Lysa's confession is rattling around in Sansa's brain. When it lands in her conscious thought processes --Baelish may be losing his upper hand with alarming speed.