KingHimes

Stannis will still be King

27 posts in this topic

Brienne killed Stannis.  She swore to do it and she saw it as her last duty to Renly.  Just because we didn't see it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. 

 

Melisandre is riding away from Stannis' body.  Even if she doubled back and found him Melisandre has made it plain, in speaking with both Jon and Davos that she herself has no special power in this regard, that it is R'Holler who decides.  Beyond that there is no reason to bring Stannis back.  Melisandre has decided that (if she ever really believed it) he isn't the chosen one, whatever name you choose to give that character.  Kinvara has made it plain that role, in the mainstream beliefs of followers of "The Lord of Light" goes to Dany.  Meanwhile Stannis has no Army, the men he had that weren't butchered by the Boltons at Winterfell had deserted before the battle.  The Wildings and the North will follow Jon, not Stannis.  Davos will never support Stannis again, not after what he did to Shireen.

 

So we have Stannis (and by the way, where exactly did Stannis get this great reputation as a General?  He had his behind handed to him at Blackwater Bay by Tyrion and Tywin, then he had his army butchered by Ramsay.  True he beat the Wildings but at least part of that happened because he attacked them while they were standing down for a parley.  How many women and children died so Stannis could have a "great reputation" as a field commander?) with no army, no base of power, by himself (okay maybe he has Melisandre with him but if she shows up at Winterfell with him Jon and Davos will have her hanged) even his wife has killed herself.  Whether we like it or not the series is rapidly approaching it's climax, it (unlike what is rumored to be going on in the books) is winnowing down the field of contenders.  D&D are not, with only what, 13 or 14 episodes left, going to take the time to make a Stannis comeback believable.  After all, even before all this he wasn't exactly the most popular man in Westeros, when the rest of the Kingdom finds out about how he murdered his brother and then allowed the human sacrifice of his daughter it's not going to inspire people to say, yeah, that Stannis guy, he's the man to back.

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Byfort of Corfe said:

So we have Stannis (and by the way, where exactly did Stannis get this great reputation as a General?  

 

Hi, read the books and its explained in detail or take half a minute to read hundreds of detailed threads. 

 

Edit: Even the show explains it several times. If you're able to make a lengthy post you can take 5 minutes to google.

Edited by aFeastForDragons

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4 hours ago, aFeastForDragons said:

 

Hi, read the books and its explained in detail or take half a minute to read hundreds of detailed threads. 

 

Edit: Even the show explains it several times. If you're able to make a lengthy post you can take 5 minutes to google.

That's the thing about telling and not showing, it doesn't have the same impact. 

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yes, I have read the books and many of the threads.  I have seen absolutely nothing that convinces me that Stannis is a "great" General.  He held out in a siege, that's about it.  He attacked the Wildings while they were awaiting a parley with the Night's Watch.  That's it.  Why don't you take a moment and look at the careers of some Generals who were actually Great, from Alexander to Scipio Africanus to  Caesar to Augustus to Charlemagne to William the Conqueror to Robert Guiscard through to Henry IInd to Edward IIIrd to the Black Prince and Henry Vth and Bertrand Du Guesclin and I'll stop there because we are running out of the Ancient to the Middle Age period.  Show me a Stannis Victory akin to Gaugamela or Issus or Zama or Pharsalus or Alesia or Charlemagne's Campaign in Italy or Hastings or Durazzo or Henry IInd's Campaigns or Crecy or Poitiers or Agincourt or Du Guesclin's campaigns against the English. 

 

Perhaps real life history isn't to your liking, let's then go with Literary Heroes.  Let us then look at King Arthur, who according to Legend fought at least 12 Battles against the Saxons, winning all 12 including a crushing victory at Mt. Badon.  That is the semi-historical Arthur.  Other literary representations have Arthur defeating Lot and his allies, as well as conquering Rome.

 

Quite frankly my read of GRRM's presentation of Stannis is that Stannis isn't worthy of his reputation.  He is beaten, and beaten badly by Tyrion and Tywin on the Blackwater.  He is first fooled by Ramsay Bolton and then crushed by him.  He did beat the Iron Fleet but the rest of his military career is workmanlike at best.  In an open field I doubt he would be a match for Tywin, Robert himself or Ned Stark, or for that matter Robb.  If you are ranking great military men of he period of ASOIAF it's quite clear that Tywin has far and away the best grasp of strategy, while Randall Tarly, Robb Stark, Eddard Stark, Ramsay Bolton, Roose Bolton and Robert Baratheon are far and away better tacticians and battlefield commanders.

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On 3/10/2017 at 3:10 PM, Jango said:

I agree. The biggest indicator, to me at least, was that he wasn't given the respectable on-screen death that nearly every important character has gotten, yet for some reason Stannis' death has to be implied and we only find out about his "true" death through Brienne telling Davos and Melisandre. Characters less deserving have had more brutal deaths on the show, like when Gregor Clegane is cutting through prisoners/peasants. You can literally see their intestines spill out before them, yet such an integral character gets an off-screen death? It screams fishy to me.

Stannis's gory end wasn't shown in an effort to be respectful. They gave Stannis the dignity of taking responsibility for his crimes and accepting the punishment he deserved. And to maintain the dignity of the scene they opted to exclude the macabre imagery of a decapitation and instead used the imagery of the sword of justice making a clean swing. Unfortunately, fans were unwilling to accept the finality that the scene presented and instead clung to conspiracy theories only to be disappointed.  

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On 3/12/2017 at 11:40 AM, sapphire_lion said:

Stannis's gory end wasn't shown in an effort to be respectful. They gave Stannis the dignity of taking responsibility for his crimes and accepting the punishment he deserved. And to maintain the dignity of the scene they opted to exclude the macabre imagery of a decapitation and instead used the imagery of the sword of justice making a clean swing. Unfortunately, fans were unwilling to accept the finality that the scene presented and instead clung to conspiracy theories only to be disappointed.  

I can respect this perspective. However, it's more than just that for me, personally. There are other signs that would suggest Stannis is still alive, to me for me at least. It's not like I'm clinging to dear life that Stannis could still be alive only because they didn't show his death like they would with any other character.

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Its nothing about unaccepting, its the cold hard fact that this is Game of Thrones where characters being murdered die on screen. Ned, Tywin, Viserys, Drogo, Oberyn, Commander Mormont, Robb Stark and his wife, Catelyn, Locke, Joffery, Renly, Qhorin, Rodrick, Maester Luwin, Jeor Mormont, Craster,  Shae, The legend of Gin Alley, Ros, Ygritte, Jogen, Mance,  Janos, Barristan, Shireen, Meryn Trant, Myrcella, Balon. Rickon, Ramsey and tons of other names I can't recall. See a pattern? Every single character murdered on screen. They burn little girls live on this show for f sake. 

 

It couldn't be any more blatantly obvious that Stannis was meant to come back so they left his "death" scene open ended. We know he has a lot more story in the book and that they gave Jon large parts of his story. Having his death scene vague gave them they option. In the end they choose to kill him off and cut his story. 

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