Bonkers

Littlefinger, Doran, Olenna ...and Oberyn plot?

88 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, Lord Wraith said:

I have a giant thread on another forum. I'll PM you the link if you interested.

Also I agree there are plenty of a parallels between the North and Dorne.

Yes, I'd love to have the link. Thanks.

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3 hours ago, Seams said:

Yes, I'd love to have the link. Thanks.

Sent and looking forward to your feedback.

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On Invalid Date at 1:05 AM, Catelyn Cerwyn said:

Executive summary: LF would be a fool to have done anything more than the initial incitement. The rest of the plot is all Joffrey’s – who we know is cruel and vicious enough to see the rest through.

Yes, exactly. He doesn't have to tell Joff blatantly that it is his job to kill a Stark, but just mention casually that only that level of crisis in House Stark would be enough to prevent Ned from becoming Hand. By this time, LF must know that you never get anywhere with Joff by telling him what to do; you have to entice him into doing things of his own volition.

So even if the catspaw is caught and fingers Joffrey, Joff would just deny it and it would be the word of some ragged wretch against the crown prince, and this would suit LF to a T because all the Starks would know it was true but the Lannisters get off scot free.

And if somehow word got around that LF was the source of the idea, he can simply claim that he was thinking out loud and he in no way ever intended, or even implied, that Joff should commit murder.

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On 19/05/2017 at 1:03 PM, John Suburbs said:

Secondly, it was Tyrion's idea to offer Joffrey for Margaery. Littlefinger just brokered the deal -- at Bitterbridge, not Highgarden. Highgarden is merely a means to an end, so losing it initially was a setback to his quest for power, but it was not crucial to the plan to remove Sansa from the capital. He could just as easily kept her in the Fingers, or Braavos.

I say Highgarden was where LF talked with LO as Tyrion recalls LF rode off for Bitterbridge, but at the Fingers he tells Sansa that he spoke to Mace and LO at Highgarden to "dicker for Margery's hand".

Little confused by this bolded part above....do you mean Harrenhal was merely a means to an end for him?  (because if you meant Highgarden then I don't understand as LF was the one who prevented her marrying into Highgarden)

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On 19/05/2017 at 1:03 PM, John Suburbs said:

There is absolutely no way to conclude that anyone would think King Tommen would be more chaotic than King Joffrey. Tommen is universally considered to be a bright, thoughtful boy while Joffrey is a self-centered idiot.

I never said he would be a more chaotic king, I said that his regency would be chaotic as it would mean Tyrell's and Lannister's fighting for more power and control during this time. 

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On 5/23/2017 at 8:41 PM, John Suburbs said:

Yes, exactly. He doesn't have to tell Joff blatantly that it is his job to kill a Stark, but just mention casually that only that level of crisis in House Stark would be enough to prevent Ned from becoming Hand. By this time, LF must know that you never get anywhere with Joff by telling him what to do; you have to entice him into doing things of his own volition.

So even if the catspaw is caught and fingers Joffrey, Joff would just deny it and it would be the word of some ragged wretch against the crown prince, and this would suit LF to a T because all the Starks would know it was true but the Lannisters get off scot free.

And if somehow word got around that LF was the source of the idea, he can simply claim that he was thinking out loud and he in no way ever intended, or even implied, that Joff should commit murder.

A pound of speculation and not a ounce of proof. Or even hinted at.

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On Invalid Date at 10:32 PM, Bonkers said:

I say Highgarden was where LF talked with LO as Tyrion recalls LF rode off for Bitterbridge, but at the Fingers he tells Sansa that he spoke to Mace and LO at Highgarden to "dicker for Margery's hand".

Little confused by this bolded part above....do you mean Harrenhal was merely a means to an end for him?  (because if you meant Highgarden then I don't understand as LF was the one who prevented her marrying into Highgarden)

Yes, Harrenhall, sorry.

You appear to be correct, ser. It seems the deal was brokered at Highgarden, not Bitterbridge, which may come as a surprise to many readers and more than a few contributors to the wiki.

When Catelyn was there, Renley tells her that Mace is back at Highgarden with 10,000 reserves. And then LF departs for Bitterbridge to convince Loras of the match in the hopes that that will be enough for Mace. Apparently it wasn't, though, so LF had to sail down the Mander to HG in order to close the deal. Lucky they were able to get it all together in time to keep Stannis out of King's Landing.

On Invalid Date at 10:35 PM, Bonkers said:

I never said he would be a more chaotic king, I said that his regency would be chaotic as it would mean Tyrell's and Lannister's fighting for more power and control during this time. 

Not really. With Tommen, Cersei remains regent for the next five years, which means she makes all the important decisions like appointments, troop movements, etc. The only influence the Tyrell's would have is to stir up mistrust between Tommen and Cersei, like they were doing in Feast. With Joffrey, Cersei is shipped off to her next husband within a fortnight and Margaery can use all her wiles to influence the decisions Joffrey will try to make, to the almost certain enmity of the real power broker in the capital, Tywin. Or, if Tywin is also scheduled for assassination, then it will be Joffrey alone, because he is certainly not going to want his mother around for very long.

Either way, everyone gets what they want virtually overnight with Joffrey (more chaos for LF, more power for the Tyrells), while with Tommen they have to wait at least five more years.

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On Invalid Date at 11:54 PM, Lord Wraith said:

A pound of speculation and not a ounce of proof. Or even hinted at.

No, there is no proof here, yet. But it is certainly a more plausible explanation than Joffrey killed Bran as an act of mercy, or that in some way Robert would find out it was Joffrey and be oh so proud of him for murdering the helpless child of his best friend in the world.

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