Scientific progress in Westeros

[syrinx]

Has there been any significant progress in science and technology since the Andals came to Westeros? For how many centuries has Westeros been stuck at the medieval technological level? How does this compare to actual history? 

The maesters would seem best placed to engage in scientific research, but like medieval monks they seem mostly focused on the preservation and diffusion of past and current knowledge. Do we have instances of scientific breakthrough by maesters in the last couple of centuries?

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

In some ways they are more advanced than their Medieval counterparts, and some ways they are not.

 

Unlike their Medieval counterparts, Maesters in Westeros do not have an Aristotle to hamper their progress - they know the Earth revolves around the sun, they have a rudimentary understanding of the Germ Theory.

 

On the other hand, they don't have a Clock, Compass or Printing Press.

[Bluetiger]

@Werthead's 'Atlas of Ice and Fire' has a great essay about it:

Here it is

Quote

The unreliability in date keeping therefore makes it hard to assemble a reliable history. The traditional dates given above in fact could be exaggerated by a factor of 100%; slashing them in half (prior to the Rhoynar invasion, anyway) certainly gives much more believable dates: 6,000 years for the First Men invading Westeros, 4,000 years for the Long Night, 3,000 years for the Andal invasion etc. But the true degree to which the dates are incorrect is difficult to pinpoint for certain.

This does address one of the key criticisms levelled at the series, one of technological stasis. In reality, the books do show a (slowly) changing evolution of technology and development. When the First Men invaded Westeros they brought bronze and fire. The Andals followed with iron and horseback riding. Knighthood, heavy armour and horse armour developed later, and castle technology also improved. Older castles, such as Raventree Hall and Winterfell, are shown with square towers whilst newer ones have rounded towers which help better deflect fire from siege weapons. In real life, the Bronze Age began circa 3200 BC and lasted to around 600 BC; the Iron Age overlapped with it, running from approximately 1200 BC to 400 AD. Halving the timespans given in A Song of Ice and Fire gives us a pace of technological development only twice as slow as in the real world, not unreasonable given that the harsh seasons substantially interfere with technological development and the transmission of information around the known world.

I explore this subject in substantially greater detail in An Unreliable World, my essay in the book Beyond the Wall (UK, USA). But in the meantime it’s worth bearing in mind the uncertainty regarding the history of Westeros and Essos when we begin looking at historical maps of the Dawn of Days, the Age of Heroes and the Long Night.

 

[Free Northman Reborn]

1 hour ago, Blue Tiger said:

@Werthead's 'Atlas of Ice and Fire' has a great essay about it:

Here it is

 

Cross referencing with Valyrian, Ghiscari and other ancient records from the East makes it pretty clear that the Long Night was at least 6000 years ago. So the arrival of the First Men had to predate that by many centuries. So a date of say 8000 years is probably the most recent realistic date for the arrival of the First Men in Westeros. As for the Andals. Their arrival in the Vale can reliably be placed between 2500 and 3500 years ago, from many different sources.

So the Andal timeline is likely to be about half as long as originally thought. But the First Man presence in Westeros cannot be significantly shortened.

[Bluetiger]

31 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

Cross referencing with Valyrian, Ghiscari and other ancient records from the East makes it pretty clear that the Long Night was at least 6000 years ago. So the arrival of the First Men had to predate that by many centuries. So a date of say 8000 years is probably the most recent realistic date for the arrival of the First Men in Westeros. As for the Andals. Their arrival in the Vale can reliably be placed between 2500 and 3500 years ago, from many different sources.

So the Andal timeline is likely to be about half as long as originally thought. But the First Man presence in Westeros cannot be significantly shortened.

If we use Scandinavia in comparison to Westeros, we can see that the so called 'progress' that so many complain about can be really 'slow' in our world as well... 

Scandinavia became ice-free about 11 000 years BC, and was settled since at least 7 500 BC - that's over 9 500-13 000 years, and we know very little about it...

Or take a look at Ireland, where earliest human settlements were built around 10 500 BC...

With long winters it's small wonder that Westeros is still at this stage after 8-12 000 years... I'd even say it's impressive they are at 'medieval' level of technology after similar time it took to get there in our world...

There certainly is progress - better alloys, improved building techniques, using natural hot springs to heat the castle (Winterfell), glass gardens, the Kingsroad, development of institutions like the Faith and its orders, maesters... Ships we see in ASOIAF certainly are better than the ones from Ironborn history, chivalry and law developed as well, society became more organised (shariffs and bailiffs in Dorne etc.), numerous castles, holdfasts and towns were bulit, large woods were cut down, trade also developed...