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Garth the Greenhand and House Goodbrother.


Crowfood's Daughter

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"The Greyjoys of Pyke claim descent from the Grey King of the Age of Heroes. Legend says the Grey King ruled not only the western isles but the sea itself, and took a mermaid to wife. For thousands of years, raiders from the Iron Islands— called “ironmen” by those they plundered— were the terrors of the seas, sailing as far as the Port of Ibben and the Summer Isles. They prided themselves on their fierceness in battle and their sacred freedoms. Each island had its own “salt king” and “rock king.” – AGOT

According to the tales, the Grey King ruled the sea itself with reeving happening on all fronts of Westeros in ancient days.   I know how this may sound, but stay with me here because I’ve a suspicion for some time and have found evidence that will make you second guess how you have been viewing the Grey King, House Goodbrother, and Garth the Greenhand.  I would like to put forth the suggestion that the Grey King and Garth the Green were not only contemporaries of one another, but brothers.  Now, with the help of the goat hair sash wearing House Goodbrother, we are going to move this forward.

"The North" chapter of TWOIAF retells the legend of the First King and the Great Barrow which states:

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"A curse was placed on the Great Barrow that would allow no living man to rival the First King. This curse made these pretenders to the title grow corpselike in their appearance as it sucked away their vitality and life."

 

TWOIAF also relates that most tales and legends state the First King was Garth the Greenhand, who is a figure strongly connected to fertility, life and vitality. As the First King who led the First Men across the arm of Dorne, it was said that he lived thousands of years and some claim he was a god. So being that Garth was the fabled first king by many accounts, I realized is it very possible the First King who is buried in the Barrow lands and Garth the Greenhand are the same person.

The curse of the First King is fascinating as there is little mention of actual specific curses in the series. As I was perusing The Iron Isles chapter, I was reminded of this curse every time the Grey King was mentioned.  

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"His hair and beard and eyes were as grey as a winter sea, and from these he took his name."

"he ruled the Iron Islands for a thousand years, until his very skin had turned as grey as his hair and beard.

 

Similar to Garth the Greenhand, the Grey King had an abnormally long lifespan of "a thousand years", who was said to also be godlike and rule the sea itself. In contrast to Garth's green hair and skin which is a color associated with life, and fertility, The Grey King is basically the visual polar opposite with grey skin, eyes and hair which is a color associated with old age and death.

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"Some stories say he had green hands, green hair, or green skin overall. (A few even give him antlers, like a stag.)"--The Reach Chapter

 

The legends of each king are also a complete inverse representation.

Among Garth's greatest feats were making the land bloom, showing the First Men how to farm, and planting seeds wherever he went from an inexhaustible bag of seeds which contained the beginnings of all the world's trees, grains, flowers etc. Some of the most arcane tales of Garth are more sinister and tell of blood sacrifices required to ensure good harvests and yields.

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“Garth made the corn ripen, the trees fruit, and the flowers bloom,” the singers tell us.

Contrasting with the great feats of Garth the Green, of the greatest feats of the Grey King, many included literally killing trees. The Grey King's greatest feats related in TWOIAF include discovering fire via a burning tree, carving the first longship from the "pale wood" of demonic tree that "fed on human flesh.", and slaying Nagga whose bones are theorized to be petrified wierwood trees. The culture of the Old Way also shuns the practice of farming and considers the agrarian lifestyle disgraceful. In fact, the Greyjoys are descended from the Grey King and their words are "We do not sow". The Lord of the Iron Isles is also referred to as "Lord Reaper" of Pyke. Again, the word "reaper" can be used to describe both death or the cutting down/taking of crops.

If these two were indeed contemporaries of one another, I can see how they could completely despise the other.

NOW…..   Hear me out.  I believe that Garth and the Grey King were brothers.

According to Maester Yandel the ancient Ironborn had a tradition of having an elder Rock King and a younger Salt King.  It later mentioned the two kings were not always on good terms with the other.

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Surviving records suggest that the rock kings were almost always older than the salt kings; in some cases the two were father and son, which has led some to argue that the salt kings were no more than heirs, crown princes to their fathers. Yet there are other instances known to us where the rock king and salt king were of different houses, sometimes even rival houses known to be inimical to one another.

 

TWOIAF further goes on to take the time out to make this mention of House Goodbrother:

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"All the great houses of the ironborn claim descent from the Grey King and his sons save, curiously, the Goodbrothers of Old Wyk and Great Wyk, who supposedly derive from the Grey King’s leal eldest brother."

 

Okay, yes.  I found it very curious that all but one house is descended from the Grey King and there is a lone house descended from his eldest leal brother.  So, lets look at how the senior branch of the Goodbrothers are introduced: 

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Lord Goodbrother of Great Wyk had come in the night before with his main strength, near forty longships. His men were everywhere, conspicuous in their striped goat’s hair sashes. It was said about the inn that Otter Gimpknee’s whores were being f###ed bowlegged by beardless boys in sashes. The boys were welcome to them so far as Theon was concerned.

So when introduced, the Goodbrothers are “everywhere” in goat hair sashes and, well, really getting it on.  I found the goat’s hair sashes completely bizarre , and researched to see if there is any symbolism behind this reference, and sure enough the goat is a fertility symbol.

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Both sexes of the goat symbolize fertility, vitality and ceaseless energy. The he-goat (buck) is the epitome of masculine virility and creative energy, while the female (doe) typifies the feminine and generative power and abundance. Symbolically, the goat can be interchanged with the gazelle or the antelope.  http://theikga.org/goat_symbolism.html

So it appears with describing the Goodbrothers as being ‘everywhere’ and having the beardless boys (aka greenboys) engage in lots of intercourse and having all members of the House wear a symbol of fertility, it seems GRRM wants us to believe the Goodbrothers are associated with fertility.  

The next time we see House Goodbrother, they are giving Aeron the news of the King Balon’s death, which symbolically is an example one brother killing another.

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"Great Wyk was the largest of the Iron Islands, so vast that some of its lords had holdings that did not front upon the holy sea. Gorold Goodbrother was one such. His keep was in the Hardstone Hills, as far from the Drowned God’s realm as any place in the isles. Gorold’s folk toiled down in Gorold’s mines, in the stony dark beneath the earth. Some lived and died without setting eyes upon salt water. Small wonder that such folk are crabbed and queer."

So before we learn of the King Balon's death, we learn the holdfast of the senior branch  is so far away from Drowned God’s realm,  many do not even set eyes on the sea and their people are considered “queer”.  We also learn in this chapter Gorold Goodbrother was given 12 daughters and 3 sons.  Fifteen kids is quite a lot of children even for Westerosi standards.  Later ,as Aeron is escorted to the sea, Greydon Goodbrother asks:

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“Will it come to war?” asked Greydon Goodbrother as the sun was lightening the hills. “A war of brother against brother?” “If the Drowned God wills it. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair.” The Crow’s Eye will fight, that is certain.

What happens the next time we see the Goodbrothers?  Oh yes, we see two brothers fighting.  

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The tent grew hot and smoky. Two of Gorold Goodbrother’s sons knocked a table over fighting; Will Humble lost a wager and had to eat his boot; Little Lenwood Tawney fiddled whilst Romny Weaver sang “The Bloody Cup” and “Steel Rain” and other old reaving songs.

Take a look at how the goodbrothers are used in the books, you will see a message is trying to be sent about fertility and brother’s fighting.  When they are not given kinslaying or fertility symbolism, you see maesters, talk of sending ravens, and conversing with either friends of the eldest Greyjoy brother Euron (who represents storms), or Ironborn with greenland ties.

 

Finally, I want to briefly explore Victarion and Euron.  In this dynamic, Euron is the elder brother. Since the return of Euron, the only thing on Victarion’s mind is Killing Euron, and how many times has Victarion mentioned how accursed kinslaying was?  So many times, its his inner mantra.

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“and the only good wind is that which fills our sails. Would you have me fight the Crow’s Eye? Brother against brother, ironborn against ironborn?” Euron was still his elder, no matter how much bad blood might be between them. No man is as accursed as the kinslayer.

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"He drank in the darkness, brooding on his brother. If I do not strike the blow with mine own hand, am I still a kinslayer? Victarion feared no man, but the Drowned God’s curse gave him pause. If another strikes him down at my command, will his blood still stain my hands? Aeron Damphair would know the answer, but the priest was somewhere back on the Iron Islands, still hoping to raise the ironborn against their new-crowned king".

So here is my speculation

  •        The Goodbrothers are the very fertile ancestors of the Grey King’s leal eldest brother Garth the Green.
  •                In ancient pre-meteor impact Westeros Garth would have been something of a rock King with the Grey King having dominion over the sea itself
  •          The Grey King slew his brother, who invoked the curse of the first king causing him to lose his vitality and earn his name.

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4 hours ago, direpupy said:

Leal eldest brother is not an older brother, it means that he is the oldest of the younger brothers of the Grey King

 

20 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

What @DirePuppy said.

It can be interpreted both ways.  Of the discussions regarding the Goodbrothers I have seen, this is the first time I have seen another reader interpret this as you have mentioned.  Eldest brother does lack clarification and means the oldest of his brothers and does not clarify where the Grey King stood so your interpretation is plausible.  Leal does not modify eldest in this way.

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46 minutes ago, Crowfood's daughter said:

 

It can be interpreted both ways.  Of the discussions regarding the Goodbrothers I have seen, this is the first time I have seen another reader interpret this as you have mentioned.  Eldest brother does lack clarification and means the oldest of his brothers and does not clarify where the Grey King stood so your interpretation is plausible.  Leal does not modify eldest in this way.

Yes it does, a Leal brother is a younger brother serving his older brother, so Leal oldest brother literaly means oldest of the younger brothers serving the oldest brother.

Just like a Leal servant is a non-related noble who swore fealty to his king, a Leal brother swears fealty tho the person above him which is his older brother.

There is no other interpertation of Leal brother, so no it is not possible for the ancestor of the Goodbrothers to be older then the Grey King.

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31 minutes ago, direpupy said:

Yes it does, a Leal brother is a younger brother serving his older brother, so Leal oldest brother literaly means oldest of the younger brothers serving the oldest brother.

Just like a Leal servant is a non-related noble who swore fealty to his king, a Leal brother swears fealty tho the person above him which is his older brother.

Okay, yes.  A leal servant, brother, knight etc is sworn to the other.  I see what you are referring to and thank you for that feedback, it was helpful. I am thinking about this and need to adjust my train of thought.  The brother vs brother is there, I still see it, and Renly's death seems to fit in this this pattern as well. I have been looking at this passage for some time which eventually took me down this rode.  It was Renly's Garth the Greenhand type armor with Catelyn seeing herself drowned.  I never mentioned Renly because he was a younger brother who was killed by the older.

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"Beside the entrance, the king’s armor stood sentry; a suit of forest-green plate, its fittings chased with gold, the helm crowned by a great rack of golden antlers. The steel was polished to such a high sheen that she could see her reflection in the breastplate, gazing back at her as if from the bottom of a deep green pond. The face of a drowned woman" 

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11 hours ago, Crowfood's daughter said:

 

"The North" chapter of TWOIAF retells the legend of the First King and the Great Barrow which states:

 

TWOIAF also relates that most tales and legends state the First King was Garth the Greenhand, who is a figure strongly connected to fertility, life and vitality. As the First King who led the First Men across the arm of Dorne, it was said that he lived thousands of years and some claim he was a god. So being that Garth was the fabled first king by many accounts, I realized is it very possible the First King who is buried in the Barrow lands and Garth the Greenhand are the same person.

 

Similar to Garth the Greenhand, the Grey King had an abnormally long lifespan of "a thousand years", who was said to also be godlike and rule the sea itself. In contrast to Garth's green hair and skin which is a color associated with life, and fertility, The Grey King is basically the visual polar opposite with grey skin, eyes and hair which is a color associated with old age and death.

 

 

 The culture of the Old Way also shuns the practice of farming and considers the agrarian lifestyle disgraceful.

 

 

 

Okay, yes.  I found it very curious that all but one house is descended from the Grey King and there is a lone house descended from his eldest leal brother.  So, lets look at how the senior branch of the Goodbrothers are introduced: 

So when introduced, the Goodbrothers are “everywhere” in goat hair sashes and, well, really getting it on.  I found the goat’s hair sashes completely bizarre , and researched to see if there is any symbolism behind this reference, and sure enough the goat is a fertility symbol.

 

 

So here is my speculation

  •        The Goodbrothers are the very fertile ancestors of the Grey King’s leal eldest brother Garth the Green.
  •                In ancient pre-meteor impact Westeros Garth would have been something of a rock King with the Grey King having dominion over the sea itself
  •          The Grey King slew his brother, who invoked the curse of the first king causing him to lose his vitality and earn his name.

 

 

I find it unlikely. How came Garth the Green crossed the Arm of Dorne, reigned in the Reach and died in the North? All while fighting the Children of the Forest.

 

The Iron Islands have a poor soil, that would explain why they originally turned to reaving. As the reaver gained more wealthy and glory than the farmer, it's no surprise that the "old way" become glorified.

 

Goats are easier to raise in the Iron Islands as they need relatively few resources to sustain. That would explain the goat sasches, it's cheap.

 

Why would the Grey King slay his eldest leal brother?

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4 hours ago, The Hoare said:

 

I find it unlikely. How came Garth the Green crossed the Arm of Dorne, reigned in the Reach and died in the North? All while fighting the Children of the Forest.

Why would the Grey King slay his eldest leal brother?

So you have not seen the part in AWOIAF where Maester Yandel mentions how incredibly huge the original kingdom of the reach was said to have been?  He never states exactly how large the reach was, but dismisses this and states it is doubtful his kingdom was more than a fortnight's ride from his halls.  This insinuates Garth's holdings in the stories is much larger.  I can only speculate from the text, but I do know fortnight is 14 days.  So this means the stories say the Kingdom of the Reach is much larger than 14 days ride.  I do not know how far a rider can go in a day, but from what I have seen online it is somewhere between 20-30 miles.  So to average that to 25 miles a day, a fortnight's ride is about 350 miles.  So to put this in perspective, the stories say the Kingdom of the Reach was huge, but Maester Yandel rejects this, much like he rejects a bunch things (many inevitably true) and states the kingdom probably wasn't larger than 350 miles from his halls.  I am guessing the stories of Garth suggest a kingdom 2-3 times larger.

Also the stories state the North was settled quickly.  The maester doubts it again and states it would have taken decades or centuries to settle, but still, the legend is consistent.  

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Why these people left their homelands is lost to all knowing, but when they came, they came in force. Thousands entered and began to settle the lands, and as the decades passed, they pushed farther and farther north. Such tales as we have of those migratory days are not to be trusted, for they suggest that, within a few short years, the First Men had moved beyond the Neck and into the North. 

 

So you believe a guy that loves trees, planted them everywhere, was all green and had antlers like the green men of the God's Eye and was mentioned to treat with the CotF to have been fighting the CotF at this point? Sure, the first men fought with the children at first, but a pact was sealed at the God's Eye.  It was tended by the green men who are dead ringer's for Garth.  

 

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The Iron Islands have a poor soil, that would explain why they originally turned to reaving. As the reaver gained more wealthy and glory than the farmer, it's no surprise that the "old way" become glorified.

The Iron Islands have poor soil because their fertile valleys were swallowed by the sea during the hammer of the waters.  What is left are these stony rocks known as the Iron Isands.  They were cut off from the mainland which is Garth's Land.  The Grey King had to steal what his people needed from the Greenlands.

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Goats are easier to raise in the Iron Islands as they need relatively few resources to sustain. That would explain the goat sasches, it's cheap.

If Goat hair was so cheap and great there would be more people wearing it.  Goat hair is mentioned only once and, yes a goat's hair sash is weird.  When the Goodbrothers are introduced in the series, the Goodbrothers are ‘everywhere’. Then, in the same passage, the beardless boys (aka greenboys) are engaging in a whole lot of sex.  Also, in the same passage, we learn they all wear a symbol of fertility.

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Why would the Grey King slay his eldest leal brother?

Because Garth had what the Ironborn have always wanted.  Dominion over the Green lands. 

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28 minutes ago, Crowfood's daughter said:

So you have not seen the part in AWOIAF where Maester Yandel mentions how incredibly huge the original kingdom of the reach was said to have been?  He never states exactly how large the reach was, but dismisses this and states it is doubtful his kingdom was more than a fortnight's ride from his halls.  This insinuates Garth's holdings in the stories is much larger.  I can only speculate from the text, but I do know fortnight is 14 days.  So this means the stories say the Kingdom of the Reach is much larger than 14 days ride.  I do not know how far a rider can go in a day, but from what I have seen online it is somewhere between 20-30 miles.  So to average that to 25 miles a day, a fortnight's ride is about 350 miles.  So to put this in perspective, the stories say the Kingdom of the Reach was huge, but Maester Yandel rejects this, much like he rejects a bunch things (many inevitably true) and states the kingdom probably wasn't larger than 350 miles from his halls.  I am guessing the stories of Garth suggest a kingdom 2-3 times larger.

Also the stories state the North was settled quickly.  The maester doubts it again and states it would have taken decades or centuries to settle, but still, the legend is consistent.  

 

So you believe a guy that loves trees, planted them everywhere, was all green and had antlers like the green men of the God's Eye and was mentioned to treat with the CotF to have not been fighting the CotF at this point?  sure, the first men fought with the children at first, but a pact was sealed at the God's Eye.  It was tended by the green men who are dead ringer's for Garth.  

 

The Iron Islands have poor soil because their fertile valleys were swallowed by the sea during the hammer of the waters.  What is left are these stony rocks known as the Iron Isands.  They were cut off from the mainland which is Garth's Land.  The Grey King had to steal what his people needed from the Greenlands.

If Goat hair was so cheap and great there would be more people wearing it.  A goat hair is mentioned only once and, yes a goat's hair sash is wierd.  When the Goodbrothers are introduced in the series, the Goodbrothers are ‘everywhere’. Then, in the same passage, the beardless boys (aka greenboys) are engaging in a whole lot of sex.  Also, in the same passage, we learn they all wear a symbol of fertility.

Because Garth had what the Ironborn have always wanted.  Dominion over the Green lands. 

I stay with the maesters this time.T here is no way such huge kingdom could be carved from nothing by a primitive king from Essos.

I don't see reason for doing it too. It would took generation for the southern regions become well populated enough to force the first men in search for new lands in the North.

 

Why would the offspring of Garth live in the Iron Islands anyway?

Also, the way the legend tells, it seens that the Gray King and his brother were in good terms.

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28 minutes ago, The Hoare said:

I stay with the maesters this time.T here is no way such huge kingdom could be carved from nothing by a primitive king from Essos.

I don't see reason for doing it too. It would took generation for the southern regions become well populated enough to force the first men in search for new lands in the North.

First off the FM came in force by the thousands.  Second, Garth might have been more than a man.  It says he was a god and lived for a thousand years.  Some say a giant is buried in the great barrow.  I know you will disregard this part as nonsense as well, Im okay with that

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Why would the offspring of Garth live in the Iron Islands anyway?

 

Also, the way the legend tells, it seens that the Gray King and his brother were in good terms.

There are some who see the Iron Islands as once being a part of the greater mainland as the Islands are situated right off of the neck.  I am part of this school of thought.  It explains how they initially came to the islands.  If you haven't seen the meteor impacts theories by LmL you are really missing out on some great stuff.  Basically, the Drowned God is a meteor that came to Westeros causing the Long Night.  There is a very similar example with the Thenns who were cut off from the rest of the First Men along with the Wildlings.  In my eyes, one branch of Garth's was cut off from the mainland with the rest of the Ironborn.  Maybe the Ironborn blamed the Grey King for the breaking at first??  Maybe the breaking was caused by the Grey King as some have put forward.  It could be why they are called "goodbrother".  If I lived in Long Night Westeros I would be pretty upset with whoever caused it, even if they were my King.  The Ironborn would adapt and went out to the Greenlands with fire an sword.

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I'm not buying that leal brother BS. Leal means loyal; true. You can be loyal to anyone even a younger brother.  

 

Now I'm really not sure about the Grey King homing his brother part but I don't see that as integral to the theory.  Garth could have died by any means and ignore the GK tried to take his role then boom curse. 

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12 minutes ago, The WolfSpider said:

I'm not buying that leal brother BS. Leal means loyal; true. You can be loyal to anyone even a younger brother.  

 

Now I'm really not sure about the Grey King homing his brother part but I don't see that as integral to the theory.  Garth could have died by any means and ignore the GK tried to take his role then boom curse. 

Yes, one could be loyal to anyone.  You have the right of that.  Yes, I think the Grey King got the corpse hex.  The more I read the more I am finding stuff with this brother v brother thing, the references are there I need to pull them out and put them together into something more cohesive.  

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My personal interpretation of Garth is that he was an Old One, a cross breed of cot and Deep ones, and the same race that build Old Town.  They are now known as the green men, and Elenei, who married Durran Godsgrief was one of them.  Daughter of the sea and sky = cotf and Deep ones, and the antlers of house Durrandon-Baratheon are explained.

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36 minutes ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

My personal interpretation of Garth is that he was an Old One, a cross breed of cot and Deep ones, and the same race that build Old Town.  They are now known as the green men, and Elenei, who married Durran Godsgrief was one of them.  Daughter of the sea and sky = cotf and Deep ones, and the antlers of house Durrandon-Baratheon are explained.

Garth was old and was in some versions a dark diety that demanded blood sacrifice.  I see him as taking on the storm god/storm king attributes in so many ways, I know they are connected.  The legend of Elenei is also very intriguing.  The green men are some type of extension of the CotF whether they are humans or something else it is hard to say at this point, but I know GRRM said we will get more info on them in the next books which has me very pumped.

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On 21-1-2017 at 10:02 PM, The WolfSpider said:

I'm not buying that leal brother BS. Leal means loyal; true. You can be loyal to anyone even a younger brother.  

 

Now I'm really not sure about the Grey King homing his brother part but I don't see that as integral to the theory.  Garth could have died by any means and ignore the GK tried to take his role then boom curse. 

In medieval terminolagy a "Leal brother" is a younger brother sworn to the older, that the word Leal by it self means loyal does not change that.

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12 hours ago, direpupy said:

In medieval terminolagy a "Leal brother" is a younger brother sworn to the older, that the word Leal by it self means loyal does not change that.

I did take a look and didn't find anything to support that a leal brother is younger besides general succession concepts.  Im interested and I'd like to see what you are talking about, do you have a website or resources you could share?  I do agree GRRM does like to use the word to describe a person sworn to another.  One thing I got from a conversation in another thread is the idea that the Goodbrother might have derived from the brother of his wife as GRRM likes to use this phrase for brother in law.

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47 minutes ago, Crowfood's daughter said:

I did take a look and didn't find anything to support that a leal brother is younger besides general succession concepts.  Im interested and I'd like to see what you are talking about, do you have a website or resources you could share?  I do agree GRRM does like to use the word to describe a person sworn to another.  One thing I got from a conversation in another thread is the idea that the Goodbrother might have derived from the brother of his wife as GRRM likes to use this phrase for brother in law.

Thats actually a good catch on it possibly being a brother in law that is certainly an option to explore.

I am not supprised you could not find anything do, a search ussualy only brings up the dictionary defenition of Leal and when trying to work with medieval terminology thats not very helpfull.

As to the medieval meaning of Leal brother i studied history for a while and in medieval texts the term is only used on younger brothers. If you want to read on the subject yourself i recommend looking up translations of medieval texts on university sites, in some of them you can actually search for terms in the online text and search for the term. If you do, you will quickly find it is only used to describe younger brothers never older ones.

It has also just occured to me that the only reason i know that the term Leal brother was only used for younger brothers is because of my stint studying history and that GRRM like most people may not know this. That combined with the idea of the brother in law actually makes your idea a lot more likely than i first thought.

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@Crowfood's daughter  I've been following your thread because the title caught my eye in relation to another theory I had been working on.  I don't know if this will help you, but here's the link relating the Elder Brother on the QI to Ser Morgarth and Garth Greenhand.  After listening to the LmL podcast on Garth and greenmen, I saw some Garth parallels to Elder Brother and the QI and if he is Mor-garth, does that make him a "dead Garth?"  There's also his conflict with the Knight of the Saltpans, old Ser Quincy Cox, who failed to open his gates and protect the people of the Saltpans, leaving the town sacked and smoking.  We don't know EB's real name or his house, but we do know he was a former knight who faught and "died" on the Trident on the Targaryen side.  I was mostly relating the analysis to my own theory, but there might be something there that catches your eye.       

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7 hours ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

@Crowfood's daughter  I've been following your thread because the title caught my eye in relation to another theory I had been working on.  I don't know if this will help you, but here's the link relating the Elder Brother on the QI to Ser Morgarth and Garth Greenhand.  After listening to the LmL podcast on Garth and greenmen, I saw some Garth parallels to Elder Brother and the QI and if he is Mor-garth, does that make him a "dead Garth?"  There's also his conflict with the Knight of the Saltpans, old Ser Quincy Cox, who failed to open his gates and protect the people of the Saltpans, leaving the town sacked and smoking.  We don't know EB's real name or his house, but we do know he was a former knight who faught and "died" on the Trident on the Targaryen side.  I was mostly relating the analysis to my own theory, but there might be something there that catches your eye.       

Oh, wow.  Yes, there are a few things catching my eye.  This helps, for sure.  Really great analysis OP and thread you have there BTW. 

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