Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Altherion said: In news unrelated to the march, the Department of Justice found that anti-nepotism laws do not apply to the President and thus Trump may appoint his son-in-law as an advisor: Also, people who are upset about the state of the country may take solace in the beliefs of the somebody with considerable influence in the Democratic party who recently argued that things aren't so bad: Well, that's bloody stupid. You create laws to prevent nepotistic patronage and exempt the person with more largesse to give than anyone else in the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 2 hours ago, SkynJay said: I think people underestimate how important firing up the base is. If there is one lesson to take out of 2016, it is that the Base is all. Hillary made an honest attempt to win over moderate Republicans and it got her absolutely nowhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChampion Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 4 hours ago, WinterFox said: That was hard to watch. I disagree that he's gone full Goebbels, I've read that guy was actually decent at his job. The repeated use of 'patriotism' concerns me. Full Orwellian, surely. Can't look anywhere on the web where Trumpists congregate without seeing the doublespeak and doublethink in full operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted January 22, 2017 Author Share Posted January 22, 2017 I watched a CNN panel that discussed that Spicer press conference, and the former White House press persons suggested this was a case where the President ordered his press officer to go out and lie. They pointed out that he reads from a statement and keeps his head down most of the time, and when he glances up its unfocused and brief. And of course, he did not take questions. Spicer, from what I read, was well respected by his fellow journalists, and the hostility in his attitude just may have reflected the fact he was unhappy with what he had to. However, as the panel members on CNN pointed out, the size of the crowd was unimportant, and for this to be the topic of his first press briefing and for Trump to go off to the CIA HQ and spend 9 minutes out of his 15 minute speech to talk about the size of the crowd and how nasty the press is was pretty stunning. And Trump went to the military ball Friday night and instead of spending his time thanking the military personnel he talked about himself and the fact that the press are his enemies. People kept saying (mainly Republicans) that Trump would change once he was President. Not a good start to that theory. Now the same people are saying you have to give him 100 days. I rather doubt a hundred days are going to miraculously change this 70 year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 59 minutes ago, Roose Boltons Pet Leech said: If there is one lesson to take out of 2016, it is that the Base is all. Hillary made an honest attempt to win over moderate Republicans and it got her absolutely nowhere. Did she actually offer anything to them or was her attempt along the lines of "vote for me because I'm not Trump"? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any issue on which she moved to a Republican position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 24 minutes ago, Altherion said: Did she actually offer anything to them or was her attempt along the lines of "vote for me because I'm not Trump"? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any issue on which she moved to a Republican position. Surely that should've been enough for at least a handful of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Just now, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: Surely that should've been enough for at least a handful of them. It might have been... had it come from Bernie Sanders or, really, practically any other Democratic nominee than the one that it came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Talking about HIllary, this was quite amusing. Ol' Bill apparently perving a bit over Ivanka/Melania at the inauguration, and getting caught out by Hillary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 10 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I doubt Christ would be involved in worldly politics at all, but why do you say this? Because he'd be a Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 11 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said: But of course they do exist. The reigning value system in Saudi Arabia is very different from that in Austria, which is different from that in China. Imagine those three countries chucked into a blender, having to decide who rules them by democratic vote. Same with Pakistan and India. These are not voluntary associations of like-minded individuals. Most aren't democratic and four out of five feature exactly what I was talking about, persecution of citizens who disagree ideologically with the state. If that's your solution to the world's problems, you should definitely rethink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 16 minutes ago, mormont said: These are not voluntary associations of like-minded individuals. Most aren't democratic and four out of five feature exactly what I was talking about, persecution of citizens who disagree ideologically with the state. If that's your solution to the world's problems, you should definitely rethink. Your argument is on questionable terrain, as you are now very close to suggesting that countries with radically different value systems don't exist. Surely you can grasp that if you united Saudi Arabia and Austria into one, democratic country, that voters are going to have vast differences in selecting the way of life that should govern them. The same if you united Saudi Arabia and China. The fact that these countries have massive internal issues does not detract from the fact that even a democratic Saudi Arabia would in no way resemble a democratic Austria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
butterbumps! Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 6 hours ago, Altherion said: In news unrelated to the march, the Department of Justice found that anti-nepotism laws do not apply to the President and thus Trump may appoint his son-in-law as an advisor: Don't you think that was a pretty clever strategy, though? They know this family is corrupt AF, and they know Kushner would be in the White House advising regardless of this decision, so why not make it official so that he'd have to disclose everything? This is the way to keep tabs on him. I doubt they truly believe it doesn't violate the nepotism laws; I think this is a check. Those concerned should probably glad for this, because now he can only be so shadowy. 4 hours ago, Altherion said: It might have been... had it come from Bernie Sanders or, really, practically any other Democratic nominee than the one that it came from. lol, you think Sanders would have had more appeal to moderate Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mindwalker Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 11 hours ago, Altherion said: I think I see what you mean -- it makes them feel better. Politicians will take notice, but they take much more notice of their constituents and, for the party in power, very few are represented in this march. Regarding people running for local office: is there some dire shortage of them? I would assume that every position which has real power is contested unless there's no plausible chance of winning. I know you probably mean that in a negative/ ridiculing way, but yes, I see absolutely no harm in trying to feel better, after feeling very bad about this election/ inauguration. That's certainly not the only reason why people went there, but a valid and important one. We see that Trump is already doctoring the truth/ creating his own 'reality' show (re: the numbers of his supporters at the inauguration, and of protesters), so gathering and seeing for yourself is a bonus. Venting your frustration and anger in a peaceful manner is another. Anyway, I really hope that a lasting movement will rise from these protests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Your argument is on questionable terrain, as you are now very close to suggesting that countries with radically different value systems don't exist. No, I'm nowhere near doing that. I'm asking what happens if a person disagrees with the value system of one of your hypothetical ideology-states. A question you don't seem interested in answering. And frankly, I'm not really very interested in discussing this daft idea further either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 minute ago, mormont said: No, I'm nowhere near doing that. I'm asking what happens if a person disagrees with the value system of one of your hypothetical ideology-states. A question you don't seem interested in answering. And frankly, I'm not really very interested in discussing this daft idea further either. Suits me. Tired of answering your daft questions in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 44 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Suits me. Tired of answering your daft questions in any case. Mormont is a supporter of Scottish independence, one of the grounds of which is the alleged ideological disparity between England and Scotland. He is also an ardent advocate of mass immigration, so his opposition to your idea is a little peculiar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 13 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said: But of course they do exist. The reigning value system in Saudi Arabia is very different from that in Austria, which is different from that in China. Imagine those three countries chucked into a blender, having to decide who rules them by democratic vote. Same with Pakistan and India. Are you seriously praising the catastrophe that was the Partition of India? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India Separating out value systems is a recipe for forced removal at best and genocide at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 Donald J. Trump. President of the USA... Compared to him Silvio Berlusconi was a Don. Unfortunately no matter how ridiculous the Donald is, he will affect the lives of people all over the world. Thank you USA. It will be really interesting to see him on the political world stage. He will play nice towards the Russians and Chinese because he sees them as "strong", thus worthy of his "respect". On the other hand he will show quite a lot of contempt towards the EU as he sees us as "weak" and whipping boys... Well in every shit situation there lies a chance. Might be that the upcoming Trump era will be remembered in history as the point when Europe finally emancipated itself from their overlords, the Americans. With the UK (America's fifth column within the EU) leaving the EU, the opportunity is great. As a side note regarding NATO: Donald don't moan about how the US has to defend Europe and we nasty Europeans do not wanna pay for this. First it was the US which never wanted a strong autonomous European military bloc, i.e. a military bloc not under supreme US leadership. And second, as a German I say: you threaten us? Well before we continue to speak give us back Ramstein and all the other military bases in Germany which you use for your worldwide wars. In fact all US bases within the territory of the EU should be closed. The EU has all the abilities to become a military superpower to defend itself. A combined future military force of let's say Germany (including building up our own nuclear device), France, the Benelux and the Scandinavian countries has no one to fear in the world. As of 2016 Germany spent 40 billion USD on defense. If the political will is there this could easily go up to 100 billion USD (or more). We have the money but not the will (lapdog mentality so far). In this sense thank you America for Trump. Now our politicians finally have to wake up and face the post-cold war reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Queen Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 10 hours ago, WinterFox said: I'm not saying don't fight, I'm confused at all of the optimism. A stupendous amount of people made a gesture of unity on the left, the right didn't care. Nothing was accomplished, I'm starting to fear they'll do what NC tried to do and start breaking the system to ensure they never lose power. And who is going to stop them? I intend to put all of my strength into reclaiming a functional republic, but I am in no way optimistic. Don't be so sure about that. There were Republican women there as well, and the pro-life groups showed up as well (despite being "uninvited", which IMO was a big mistake). This transcends party and if only a few percent of all those people go home and get involved, it's going to make a difference. We have to start small. Michael Moore stood up there and put the old guard of the Democratic Party on notice. We need young people to get involved and motivated. My daughter woke me up at 1:30 am to ask if she could borrow my car to take a 16 year old family friend to a rally for LGBT rights. He's 16 and gay, and he's scared. His sisters went to DC so he didn't have a ride, so my daughter offered to take him and she's dragging her boyfriend along, too. How can I say no to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Marquis de Leech Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Arakan said: The EU has all the abilities to become a military superpower to defend itself. A combined future military force of let's say Germany (including building up our own nuclear device), France, the Benelux and the Scandinavian countries has no one to fear in the world. France will never let you do that. (It'd also put the fear of God into Russia). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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