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Men's rights/issues thread- Grab 'em right by the willy


mankytoes

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39 minutes ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

do you feel they are at a disadvantage, by being limited in their physical capability? what about being embedded where 99percent of your comrades are of the opposite sex? I think it has the potential to cause serious problems.

this probably belongs in a feminism thread or trash can.

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6 hours ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

do you feel they are at a disadvantage, by being limited in their physical capability? what about being embedded where 99percent of your comrades are of the opposite sex? I think it has the potential to cause serious problems.

Why is this a men's right issue? Because this seems like an issue about women and men's control of women, and not, you know, about men. This is the type of thing that turns off a lot of people to men's issues, because it so often derails into discussion on how best to control women. 

 

But to answer: no, I don't see a problem in terms of the red herring that is physical strength. I do think we need to do better in preventing sexual assault and rape in the armed services, but that's regardless of whether we "allow" women to serve in active combat roles, or not. 

And if you're thinking about women is more important to society because they can bear children, you should probably not say that in public. 

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12 hours ago, Westerosi Coast Gangster said:

question, should women have to go into battle as men do? 

they should have the opportunity if they want to - i just wish there were less wars and battles??? that no one, men and women, had to go to. 

but in terms of physical strength; i really don't think that's a huge factor in the armed forces these days when you're fully trained and the most fit you can be, both men and women, are capable of doing what they need to do. 

but to echo terra; this seems like a question that shouldn't be in this thread, is only meant to derail and is not earnest. 

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20 hours ago, TerraPrime said:

More men succeed at suicides than women do. Male veterans with PTSD tend to struggle more than female veterans do. The lone gunman mass killers common in the U.S. are almost exclusively men, with the emphasis on the "lone" part. 

Being emotionally isolated due to, in part, the cultural expectations associated with one's gender, is a common component to all the above. 

 

But you're right that many men don't see this as a problem. They don't think holding on to those emotions and not even having a need to process them is an issue. They think it's natural and normal to just be twisted up inside, combating the anxiety and anguish on their own. Most won't even know there's an alternate unless some cataclysmic event forces them to seek counseling, such as loss of a spouse, PTSD, huge depression, etc. 

My point was more around the idea that men actually don't see it as a problem because it isn't one. For many men they have their own way of dealing with issues which are absolutely as valid and as useful as bawling your eyes out to a councellor. For some people that works and for some it doesn't. I don't think we should paint everyone with the same brush or prescribe the same medicine. 

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4 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

My point was more around the idea that men actually don't see it as a problem because it isn't one. For many men they have their own way of dealing with issues which are absolutely as valid and as useful as bawling your eyes out to a councellor. For some people that works and for some it doesn't. I don't think we should paint everyone with the same brush or prescribe the same medicine. 

don't look now but from your text one could infer that you think those that do go to a counselor are some how lesser.  Which is kind of what we need not to happen so that men don't feel the stigma of reaching out for emotional help. YMMV

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5 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

My point was more around the idea that men actually don't see it as a problem because it isn't one. For many men they have their own way of dealing with issues which are absolutely as valid and as useful as bawling your eyes out to a councellor. For some people that works and for some it doesn't. I don't think we should paint everyone with the same brush or prescribe the same medicine. 

It's like you totally ignored Terra's whole post, lmao. Also - I really don't like how you have to paint the people who handle their emotions differently to you in such a negative light. Needing help from a counsellor shouldn't be shamed if that's what works for someone. Personally; I keep my emotions to myself, self reflect a lot and try to push through negative emotions by myself; some friends of mine use medication, some friends of mine go to a counsellor; I don't think it's negative that some men (and women, don't forget...) are traditionally ''stoic'' I just think it's bad when there's no variety allowed to men and a stigma attached to anything BUT stoicism. 

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2 minutes ago, Chaldanya said:

don't look now but from your text one could infer that you think those that do go to a counselor are some how lesser.  Which is kind of what we need not to happen so that men don't feel the stigma of reaching out for emotional help. YMMV

Yep. It's betraying certain prejudices and the stigma against men and women who are open with their emotions and MENTAL HEALTH  and need help to navigate through them. 

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1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

My point was more around the idea that men actually don't see it as a problem because it isn't one. For many men they have their own way of dealing with issues which are absolutely as valid and as useful as bawling your eyes out to a councellor. For some people that works and for some it doesn't. I don't think we should paint everyone with the same brush or prescribe the same medicine. 

The bullshit machismo is just fucking dripping off this post.  

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I think you are both reading a hell of a lot into what I said and letting your prejudices run away with you. I was replying to Terraprime who had agreed with my post whilst at the same time said something wholly different. 

My point is similar to Theda in that I believe everyone is different and we all have our own ways of dealing with issues. I don't particularly have a positive opinion of councelling as many of my friends have had therapy and not really gotten a lot out of it, I find it to be quite an unregulated and badly run form of help in general. I will say that. 

But I don't have a negative view of those who go to it, nor those who feel they need to express their emotions openly. 

I do feel that there is a lot of focus on pushing men into a certain way of dealing with their emotions, ie through talking and 'opening up', which by the same token dismisses any stoic, inner methods as backwards and unhelpful. My point is we are not in fact finding a balance, the variety that Theda is calling for is what I want to, but we have two separate societal forces pushing their own values and dismissing the other. 

 

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1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

My point was more around the idea that men actually don't see it as a problem because it isn't one. For many men they have their own way of dealing with issues which are absolutely as valid and as useful as bawling your eyes out to a councellor. For some people that works and for some it doesn't. I don't think we should paint everyone with the same brush or prescribe the same medicine. 

1 minute ago, MerenthaClone said:

The bullshit machismo is just fucking dripping off this post.  

I really don't like how you have to paint the people who handle their emotions differently to you in such a negative light.

SCNR

 

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1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

My point was more around the idea that men actually don't see it as a problem because it isn't one. For many men they have their own way of dealing with issues which are absolutely as valid and as useful as bawling your eyes out to a councellor. For some people that works and for some it doesn't. I don't think we should paint everyone with the same brush or prescribe the same medicine. 

I might be wrong, but I don't think TerraPrime's post focused on those who manage to deal with issues they're facing, rather the exact opposite.

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14 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

yes and I was merely reiterating what I was trying to say as it seemed to have been misunderstood.

And in the process decided to tar everyone who does deal with it in any way besides your approved Manly way as somehow worthy of your contempt.

21 minutes ago, Jo498 said:

I really don't like how you have to paint the people who handle their emotions differently to you in such a negative light.

  He can handle his emotions however he wants.  Its when he starts shitting on other people's coping mechanisms that I get irritable.  

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3 minutes ago, MerenthaClone said:

And in the process decided to tar everyone who does deal with it in any way besides your approved Manly way as somehow worthy of your contempt.

  He can handle his emotions however he wants.  Its when he starts shitting on other people's coping mechanisms that I get irritable.  

No i didn't actually. I love how angry your imagination is making you.

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Given that at least four people have reacted negatively to your words -- and I agree with them that your word choice displays contempt for those who choose therapy even if that wasn't what you were trying to convey -- I think it might be useful to step away from the keyboard for a bit and reflect that maybe, just maybe, you worded your post poorly.

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1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

My point was more around the idea that men actually don't see it as a problem because it isn't one. For many men they have their own way of dealing with issues which are absolutely as valid and as useful as bawling your eyes out to a councellor. For some people that works and for some it doesn't. I don't think we should paint everyone with the same brush or prescribe the same medicine. 

If people choose to concentrate on one word that I used rather than the entire post that then that is entirely up to them. My post emphasised the need for choice, that different methods work for different people. I'd say this is a case of people bringing their own assumptions into what I am saying rather than reading my post. I'm not accountable for that.

Either way, I'm willing to let it drop now. If someone wants to continue the discussion I am happy to do so.

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16 minutes ago, Xray the Enforcer said:

Given that at least four people have reacted negatively to your words -- and I agree with them that your word choice displays contempt for those who choose therapy even if that wasn't what you were trying to convey -- I think it might be useful to step away from the keyboard for a bit and reflect that maybe, just maybe, you worded your post poorly.

That went well :/

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This took an unsurprising turn.. 

One thing I've been thinking about recently that's an actual men's rights issue, and not just stuff men shouldn't do, is what we should do to help boys in school. I know I talked earlier about attitude, but I doubt that's going to change any time soon. All I've got really is that we should show boys from the pre school years and forward that we expect them to behave as well as the girls, but also that we believe that they can perform as well. Right now I don't think either of those criteria are met on a large scale.

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