Oathkeeper or False Friend?

[Lost Melnibonean]

 

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"She asked the name of this blade of yours," said the young northman in the sheepskin jerkin.

"Oathkeeper," Brienne answered.

The woman in grey hissed through her fingers. Her eyes were two red pits burning in the shadows. She spoke again.

"No, she says. Call it Oathbreaker, she says. It was made for treachery and murder. She names it False Friend. Like you."

...

The thing that had been Catelyn Stark took hold of her throat again, fingers pinching at the ghastly long slash in her neck, and choked out more sounds. "Words are wind, she says," the northman told Brienne. "She says that you must prove your faith."

"How?" asked Brienne.

"With your sword. Oathkeeper, you call it? Then keep your oath to her, milady says."

"What does she want of me?"

"She wants her son alive, or the men who killed him dead," said the big man. "She wants to feed the crows, like they did at the Red Wedding. Freys and Boltons, aye. We'll give her those, as many as she likes. All she asks from you is Jaime Lannister."

Jaime. The name was a knife, twisting in her belly. "Lady Catelyn, I . . . you do not understand, Jaime . . . he saved me from being raped when the Bloody Mummers took us, and later he came back for me, he leapt into the bear pit empty-handed . . . I swear to you, he is not the man he was. He sent me after Sansa to keep her safe, he could not have had a part in the Red Wedding."

Lady Catelyn's fingers dug deep into her throat, and the words came rattling out, choked and broken, a stream as cold as ice. The northman said, "She says that you must choose. Take the sword and slay the Kingslayer, or be hanged for a betrayer. The sword or the noose, she says. Choose, she says. Choose."

...

Brienne felt the hemp constricting, digging into her skin, jerking her chin upward. Ser Hyle was cursing them eloquently, but not the boy. Podrick never lifted his eyes, not even when his feet were jerked up off the ground. If this is another dream, it is time for me to awaken. If this is real, it is time for me to die. All she could see was Podrick, the noose around his thin neck, his legs twitching. Her mouth opened. Pod was kicking, choking, dying. Brienne sucked the air in desperately, even as the rope was strangling her. Nothing had ever hurt so much.

She screamed a word.

Brienne VIII, Feast 42

Of course, we learn later in an SSM, that the word was sword. Thus we can assume that Brienne has gone forth to kill the kingslayer, and that Lady Stoneheart, Thoros, Jeyne Heddle, Lem, and Jack-be-Lucky hold Hyle Hunt and Podrick Payne hostage.

Then at Pennytree...

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He sent out scouts as well, to make certain no enemy took them unawares. It was near midnight when two came riding back with a woman they had taken captive. "She rode up bold as you please, m'lord, demanding words with you."

Jaime scrambled to his feet. "My lady. I had not thought to see you again so soon." Gods be good, she looks ten years older than when I saw her last. And what' s happened to her face? "That bandage … you've been wounded …"

"A bite." She touched the hilt of her sword, the sword that he had given her. Oathkeeper. "My lord, you gave me a quest."

"The girl. Have you found her?"

"I have," said Brienne, Maid of Tarth. "Where is she?"

"A day's ride. I can take you to her, ser … but you will need to come alone. Elsewise, the Hound will kill her."

Jaime, Dance 48

It would appear, then, that Brienne lied to Jaime to separate him from his men so that she could kill the kingslayer. I see three other options: She might be leading Jaime into a trap for Lem and Jack. She might intend to lead Jaime back so that the two of them can plead their defense together, possibly standing trial by battle, against each other or against Lem. Or, she is hoping Jaime will help her rescue Hyle and Podrick. So, which of the four is it? (Or is there another option?)

1) Brienne lied to Jaime to separate him from his men so that she could kill the kingslayer.

2) Brienne is leading Jaime into a trap for Lem and Jack.

3) Brienne intends to lead Jaime back so that the two of them can plead their defense together, possibly standing trial by battle, against each other or against Lem.

4) Brienne is hoping Jaime will help her rescue Hyle and Podrick.

@Lady bonehead suggests a fifth option:

5) Jaime discovers Brienne is leading him into a trap, feels betrayed, and escapes (possibly killing Brienne). 

[Eden-Mackenzie]

I vote 3. Brienne has so gar been shown to be one of the only truly good people in the series, if she thinks there is a way she can uphold her vows/oaths/missions/ whatever from both Lady Catelyn and Jaime she will act accordingly. This may be hopeless optimism on my part, but someone needs to do the right thing...

[Curled Finger]

I love this topic.   What struck me most was Brienne learning guile.   Most of our heroes have to learn mercy or kindness or honor but poor Brienne has to learn to lie to her friends.   I don't know that Brienne is well, wily enough to come up with a plan so I'm hoping this moment with Jamie is an indication that she has learned enough human savagery to save herself and her friend.  I have thought all along that LSH wants Brienne to bring Jamie to her and kill him in front of her.  With the options you've given I'm with Eden-Mackenzie and going with door number 3.   And hope that Thoros has had enough of LSH's crap and that Sandor Clegane is somewhere very near and that someone from Jamie's forces will follow and that Gendry is suddenly curious about what Brienne wanted to tell him...  

[Scootaloo Stark]

I've always thought it's 3.

She'd never just lure him somewhere to kill him, or have him killed. Brienne's a good person. I'd hate to see her break Jaime's trust, Brienne has to stay true.

And I don't think she thinks Jamie can save her. One hand? Alone? (I could see him try anyway though)

No, she'll try to appeal to the Catelyn she knew and hope for justice. I have no idea how she could succeed, but I'll hope for the best.

The thought of Brienne becoming an oathbreaker (to save innocent lifes) like Jaime would be interesting, but I don't want it. Not everyone has to be morally grey, some people really are good.

 

[Cridefea]

Oh I love this topic!

I think Brienne has seen herself as an oathbreaker from the moment she said "sword". 

And I think she was in a such emotional and phisical state that she can't have thought any plan. So probably she's gonna do something really stupid like sacrify herself to save Jaime, Pod and Hyle, but in the end I think she will kill LSH. For Brienne it would be the right climax for becoming less rigid. 

LSH  reminds me the two aspects of Justice: Nemesi and Dike in greek mythology. In a symbolic way she compels Brienne to confront with the difference between wrong and right. It would be very important for her personal development.

I wonder how Jaime is gonna handle Brienne's betrayal, given that she's probably the only one person he trusts more. It could be important for his development, too.

[Khal Shaggydog]

I think its option 3 as well, delivering Jaime to LS is a pretty serious display of fealty to a derranged ghost, and her oath was made to Catelyn first, prior to Jaime finding some decency after losing his hand. Jaime understands, more or less, some idea of karmic retribution. We see some self-reflection after he becomes imperfect, and as his family descends into truly evil acts, partly enabled by him, he will recognize judgment when it comes in the form of the betrayal by Brienne.

Jaime facing LS after all that is a pretty intense thought. But it does allow LS to either snuff out his storyline GRRM style, or send him onto something more sordid, such as being charged with killing his sister. Doubtful LS would be satisfied with the same grade of oral oaths that Catelyn was last time the two met, so I dont know how they would be ok with sending Jaime on such a quest...but plenty of time to get weird.

 

 

[HaeSuse]

Personally, I think Brienne has completely resigned her own honorable right to her life. The moment she says "sword", she forfeits her own life. Now, she gains back her life, for the moment, by swearing to kill Jaime. However, since she has consciously accepted the inevitability of her death, and that she is or is going to have to be an oathbreaker of some form or another, she just has to prioritize the individual choices in front of her. This perfeclty mirrors Jaime's decision to slay Aerys. He knew he had to break some oath or another, and had to decide. What matters the most? Protecting the most innocent lives was his answer. What's the most important to Brienne? I think, to her, the girls are still the most important. Secondly, her commitment to and admiration of, as well as her protective motherly feeling toward Jaime Lackhand. Thirdly, I believe she feels very little in the way of honorable commitments to LSH. Even the "sword" oath, I believe, is null and void. Furthermore, the lives of Pod and Hyle hang heavy in her heart. So, in the end, she makes the same choice Jaime made. When faced with a forced broken oath, choose to break the oath that saves the most lives. And frankly. it even mirrors Jaime/Aerys even more. Jaime had to choose to murder his liege lord, king, and the man he swore to protect, but who had gone mad. Catelyn began as a sympathetic, kind, honorable character (for the most part), and is now as mad as Aerys ever was.

 

Therefore, I see her next few story arc developments to be: informing Jaime of the situation with LSH, procuring his help in saving Pod and Hyle, and then offering her own life in return, after freeing/saving the others. If she can get Jaime to reaffirm commitment to helping the girls, and save those 3, I think she can die happy/content, and that that is what she is going to attempt to do. Somehow she'll avoid the grave, by some deus ex machina or another, so her arc can continue. I believe this will bring the LSH arc to a close, one way or another.

 

Therefore, I'm voting for #4. IT could change into #3, as I don't think Brienne has it fully planned out yet, either. But I don't think it's 1 or 2. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

If you think Option #3 is the most likely, do you think she will tell Jaime what is going on first? If so, how will Jaime react? 

[HaeSuse]

7 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

If you think Option #3 is the most likely, do you think she will tell Jaime what is going on first? If so, how will Jaime react? 

Whether she picks 3 or 4, or is just grabbing Jaime to help in general with no real plan, as I've suggested, I think Jaime will respond by assisting her in whatever she intends to do.

[Khal Shaggydog]

I think that partly depends on how physically close the parties are. If we're talking a weeks ride to where LS is encamped, I think its probable Brienne either lets it slip or tells him outright what they are walking into. But if they are very close, maybe not?

I think it comes down to who she trusts in the moment, and if I was here, Id probably read Jaime in. They have been through actual situations together, including fighting each other, and in a pretty serious pending kerfuffle like they are riding towards, its better to at least know someone has your back. Id also have more trust in the new Jaime, as untrustworthy as he used to be, against a murderous part-zombie. Not much to trust there.

I think Brienne treats it like this, once they get away from Jaime's men. "Look, Sansa isnt around the corner. But Catelyn fucking Stark is, and she's undead, and shes got some kind of army, and they were about to kill me unless i brought you. I know, you're pissed and surprised that I lied. We need to either flee, or come up with some plan to get out of this. Go."

[Philokles]

Most likely three. It is also possible Brienne intends four, then it would then be interesting how Jaime reacts, I'm not certain that he would go along with the plan.

I don't think that LS's actions are all that unreasonable, with the exception of hanging Pod. From the information she has, both Brienne and Jaime look incredibly guilty.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

Most likely three. It is also possible Brienne intends four, then it would then be interesting how Jaime reacts, I'm not certain that he would go along with the plan.

I don't think that LS's actions are all that unreasonable, with the exception of hanging Pod. From the information she has, both Brienne and Jaime look incredibly guilty.

Clearly. And Lem and Jack hate Lannisters since lions killed Lem wife and daughter and Jack's brothers. And Harwin was a wolf before he became a bannerless brother. 

So I don't see Jaime and Brienne talking their way out of this one. 

[Philokles]

17 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Clearly. And Lem and Jack hate Lannisters since lions killed Lem wife and daughter and Jack's brothers. And Harwin was a wolf before he became a bannerless brother. 

So I don't see Jaime and Brienne talking their way out of this one. 

I'm not sure who or what could support their claims and LS will never believe them without any validation, but I don't think it is either Jaime or Brienne's time to die yet.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

I'm not sure who or what could support their claims and LS will never believe them without any validation, but I don't think it is either Jaime or Brienne's time to die yet.

I hear you. It's a pickle...

[Khal Shaggydog]

Its never anyone's time to die, that what makes this ASOIAF. We could be facing an elaborate plan between Brienne and Jaime, them sending ravens to Bronn or some other rando, etc, and then when they are about to start in on their plan, Harwin ends Jaime over Jory Cassel. Brienne reacts, Lem runs her through, or Pod is forced to kill them to take on a quest of honor.

[Scootaloo Stark]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

If you think Option #3 is the most likely, do you think she will tell Jaime what is going on first? If so, how will Jaime react? 

No, she won't tell him, at least not until they're there. Brienne already had to lie to him to get him away at all. I wonder if Jaime notices she's lying though. He'll probably ask if everything's okay with her, but he won't suspect she's not being honest (because he'd never imagine Brienne being dishonest).

Let's say she does tell him though. "Hey Jaime, Lady Stark has come back from the dead and threatens to kill your brother's squire if I don't bring you to her". Well, she already told him how a cold dark shadow killed Renly, and he kinda believed her (I guess?), so why not.

Once Jaime and Brienne are on their way, there's no way Jaime could get out of it anyway. He can't flee from Brienne or win a fight against her, and he won't dissuade her. The only thing he can do is play along and try to talk or fight his way out once he faces Lady Stoneheart. And smile. I'll be disappointed if he doesn't smile in the face of death.

I have no idea how he gets out of it (sorry), but I'm still almost 100% convinced he does, because I'm certain he has to kill Cersei at some point. I hope Brienne gets away too, and Pod.

[Khal Shaggydog]

3 minutes ago, Scootaloo Stark said:

I have no idea how he gets out of it (sorry), but I'm still almost 100% convinced he does, because I'm certain he has to kill Cersei at some point. I hope Brienne gets away too, and Pod.

I think they get there and are charged with the next step, which is killing Cersei and anyone else LS deems needing of killing. Ties into Valanquor prophecy as well. And Jaimes thought about coming into the world together, and leaving it together. My question is how does LS trust Jaime to do that, given she had (as Cat) had him swear an oath previously before letting him go. Im guessing it involves some kind of curse.

[Philokles]

25 minutes ago, Khal Shaggydog said:

Its never anyone's time to die, that what makes this ASOIAF. We could be facing an elaborate plan between Brienne and Jaime, them sending ravens to Bronn or some other rando, etc, and then when they are about to start in on their plan, Harwin ends Jaime over Jory Cassel. Brienne reacts, Lem runs her through, or Pod is forced to kill them to take on a quest of honor.

No major POV character has died mid-arc to date in ASOIAF. The shocking deaths have either been non-POVs or at the point where their story has reached a natural conclusion and were moved on to let others have theirs.

[Blue-Eyed Wolf]

What makes Brienne say "sword" finally is really looking at Podrick.  He's 100% innocent and his life still hangs in the balance.  Any decision she makes, she has to consider what it means for Podrick.  Brienne firmly believes it is a knight's duty to defend the innocent or die in the attempt.  Telling Jaime and hoping they'll be able to talk their way or fight their way out of it means certain death for Pod if they fail.  There's another question, would Jaime, if he's serious about reclaiming his honor as a knight, be willing to sacrifice himself to spare Pod?  

I think there's a interesting twist here of a Payne being executed by a Stark that can't talk and a Payne that can't talk executed a Stark.  Also Jaime has Ser Ilyn as his traveling companion / sparring partner / therapist in a twisted Brienne / Pod parallel.  I wonder what to make of all that.   

[Scootaloo Stark]

10 minutes ago, Khal Shaggydog said:

I think they get there and are charged with the next step, which is killing Cersei and anyone else LS deems needing of killing. Ties into Valanquor prophecy as well. And Jaimes thought about coming into the world together, and leaving it together. My question is how does LS trust Jaime to do that, given she had (as Cat) had him swear an oath previously before letting him go. Im guessing it involves some kind of curse.

I agree, he's the valonqar and they will kill each other or he causes them both to die. But just like you I don't see how LS would ever trust Jaime (or Brienne) ever again.

Maybe some unforeseen event causes Jaime and Brienne to never arrive at LS's lair or at least delays their arrival? And by that time Cersei will have dealt with the High Sparrow and Tyrells and everything... and somehow meets Jaime.. welp, I give up. Sounded better in my head. Still got no idea how it will happen, but I know it will.