Oathkeeper or False Friend?

[sweetsunray]

On 31-1-2017 at 9:32 PM, ravenous reader said:

I see what you're saying about Brienne's social awkwardness, and perhaps she does struggle with 'reading' people.  But Lady Stoneheart is not an ordinary person, nor does she have human eyes any longer -- so it's a bit unfair to Brienne, when evaluating her interpersonal skills, to expect her to correctly read their expression -- especially since it's also possible that Lady Stoneheart, only a remnant of her former self, may no longer have any eyes to read!

What does "fair" have to do with this? If she cannot read Nimble Dick based on facial cues, then she cannot read LS either. I don't hold that against Brienne. It's a feature of what may be the traps of her descriptions and opinions in her POV.

On the eyes: are you saying that LS has NO eyes anymore, that she gouged her eyes out like Thistle? Are you saying that she has empty eye-sockets that are filled with some magic light? 

Cat raked the flesh of her cheeks: per her last chapter in aSoS, aSoS epilogue and Brienne's description. While it's interesting that you show anologies with Thistle, the big difference is that George writes "where her eyes had once been" for Thistle, but not for LS for 3 chapters from 3 different POV. And I really don't see why George would describe in detail the state of LS's face in aSoS epilogue, but leave out the description that LS's eyes are now empty sockets. There is an enormous difference between using an unreliable narrator up to some respect, and leaving that type of description out. Interesting suggestion, but euhm nope, I see no evidence that LS is eyeless. George had her voice taken away, not her eyes.

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Her cloak and collar hid the gash his brother's blade had made, but her face was even worse than he remembered. The flesh had gone pudding soft in the water and turned the color of curdled milk. Half her hair was gone and the rest had turned as white and brittle as a crone's. Beneath her ravaged scalp, her face was shredded skin and black blood where she had raked herself with her nails. But her eyes were the most terrible thing. Her eyes saw him, and they hated. (aSoS, Epilogue)

The first obvious impression that George pushes for in Brienne's last chapter is that LS is a shallow malicious thing of hatred and fire. I never disagreed that's the full on first impression. I pointed out that's exactly what George is doing - pushing for the belief she's only hatred, only thinking of revenge. I also never said that LS has a rich and subtle emotional inner life. I pointed out instead that one of her last feelings at the point of death is not just revenge, but her children, her sweetlings.

And yes, fire can glimmer, so does "ice" and "metals" (gold, steel, silver) and "understanding" and "wet cloth" and "sunlight on water", "rubies" but also "emeralds", and "a road" and "rivers" and "tears"

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Behind the King's Tower, the Wall glimmered in the light of the moon, immense and mysterious. (aGoT, Tyrion II)

The Wall loomed before them, glimmering palely in the light of the half moon. (aGoT, Jon IV)

His rings glimmered in the torchlight, red-gold and pale silver, crusted with rubies, sapphires, slitted yellow tiger eyes. (aGoT, Arya III)

the edge of his sword had the dangerous glimmer of steel that had been honed every day for hours, until it was too sharp to touch. (aGoT, Catelyn VII)

He is giving me his son's sword. Jon could scarcely believe it. The blade was exquisitely balanced. The edges glimmered faintly as they kissed the light. (aGoT, Jon VIII)

Tyrion saw a glimmer of gold as the light shone off his father's pupils, but he could not have said whether the look was one of approval or disgust. (aGoT, Tyrion IX)

Morning light glimmered faintly against the edge of the steel across his knees. (aCoK, Catelyn I)

Catelyn had a glimmer of understanding. (aCoK, Catelyn VI)

The moonlight glimmered pale upon the stump where Jaime had rested his head. The moss covered it so thickly he had not noticed before, but now he saw that the wood was white. (aSoS, Jaime VI)

Moonlight glimmered pale against the ice. (aSoS, Jon VI)

They splashed past rows of brightly colored pavilions, their walls of wet silk lit up like magic lanterns by lamps and braziers inside; pink and gold and green they glimmered, striped and fretty and chequy, emblazoned with birds and beasts, chevrons and stars, wheels and weapons. (aSoS, Arya X)

There are no flames, but the steel is yellow and red and orange, all flashing and glimmering, like sunshine on water, but prettier. (aSoS, Samwell V)

Garin was the first to spy the river glimmering green. (aFfC, Queenmaker)

Water filled the bottoms of the bowls, glimmering golden in the afternoon sun. It is water now, Alayne thought, but come dark, all of it will turn to ice. (aFfC, Alayne II)

The old Valyrian road glimmered ahead of them like a long silver ribbon winding through wood and dale. (aDwD, Tyrion III)

Reek turned away from the torch with tears glimmering in his eyes. (aDwD, Reek I)

Rivers running bright and blue below, glimmering in the sun. (aDwD, Danaerys X)

 

Glimmer is used to describe the effect of light being reflected back, either as a flash of light or moving. Sun, stars and fire are sources of light, while moons are like gems and steel and water - reflectors of light. George obviously does not exclusively use the verb "glimmer" for fire alone.

As for red eyes, or ruby eyes: again that's a variously used image. Mel has red eyes and is associated with fire. But the faces of weirwood trees cry tears of blood and have "red eyes" too (horrible eyes). Ruby is associated with the color of blood at times, at other times with fire. Rubies are used for glamors, but so are moonstones. While you can make an associative case, you can't make an "exclusive" case. The text doesn't back up a claim of "it's 100% fire, because George never uses the word glimmer for water".

We have a white face, permanently raked blood tracks of tears: basically a weirwood face.

Very interesting association with Kali. There's also Demeter Fury, and Hel, and Isis, and Neith, and Nyx, the Poppy Goddess, Astarte/Inanna, the Morrigan, Maenads and many more. When it comes to both Catelyn and LS in relation to mythological figures they are both some of the most complex layered figures. All of them embody a visioin of the dark aspect of the Great Mother. They are all feared, and yet none are actually evil. They are only evil from a dualistic black-white view.

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

What does "fair" have to do with this? If she cannot read Nimble Dick based on facial cues, then she cannot read LS either. 

On the eyes: are you saying that LS has NO eyes anymore, that she gouged her eyes out like Thistle? Are you saying that she has empty eye-sockets that are filled with some magic light? 

Cat raked the flesh of her cheeks: per her last chapter in aSoS, aSoS epilogue and Brienne's description. While it's interesting that you show anologies with Thistle, the big difference is that George writes "where her eyes had once been" for Thistle, but not for LS for 3 chapters from 3 different POV. And I really don't see why George would describe in detail the state of LS's face in aSoS epilogue, but leave out the description that LS's eyes are now empty sockets. There is an enormous difference between using an unreliable narrator up to some respect, and leaving that type of description out. Interesting suggestion, but euhm nope, I see no evidence that LS is eyeless. George had her voice taken away, not her eyes.

The first obvious impression that George pushes for in Brienne's last chapter is that LS is a shallow malicious thing of hatred and fire. I never disagreed that's the full on first impression. I pointed out that's exactly what George is doing - pushing for the belief she's only hatred, only thinking of revenge. I also never said that LS has a rich and subtle emotional inner life. I pointed out instead that one of her last feelings at the point of death is not just revenge, but her children, her sweetlings.

And yes, fire can glimmer, so does "ice" and "metals" (gold, steel, silver) and "understanding" and "wet cloth" and "sunlight on water", "rubies" but also "emeralds", and "a road" and "rivers" and "tears"

Glimmer is used to describe the effect of light being reflected back, either as a flash of light or moving. Sun, stars and fire are sources of light, while moons are like gems and steel and water - reflectors of light. George obviously does not exclusively use the verb "glimmer" for fire alone.

As for red eyes, or ruby eyes: again that's a variously used image. Mel has red eyes and is associated with fire. But the faces of weirwood trees cry tears of blood and have "red eyes" too (horrible eyes). Ruby is associated with the color of blood at times, at other times with fire. Rubies are used for glamors, but so are moonstones. While you can make an associative case, you can't make an "exclusive" case. The text doesn't back up a claim of "it's 100% fire, because George never uses the word glimmer for water".

We have a white face, permanently raked blood tracks of tears: basically a weirwood face.

Very interesting association with Kali. There's also Demeter Fury, and Hel, and Isis, and Neith, and Nyx, the Poppy Goddess, Astarte/Inanna, the Morrigan, Maenads and many more. When it comes to both Catelyn and LS in relation to mythological figures they are both some of the most complex layered figures. All of them embody a visioin of the dark aspect of the Great Mother. They are all feared, and yet none are actually evil. They are only evil from a dualistic black-white view.

Ooh, I like that. 

[sweetsunray]

12 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Ooh, I like that. 

Me too. LS is a mix of all: originally a southron lady who worships the Seven of the Faith, buried in water/river, resurrected by fire magic, and has the terrible features of a weirwood.

[The Fattest Leech]

34 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Ooh, I like that. 

 

14 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Me too. LS is a mix of all: originally a southron lady who worships the Seven of the Faith, buried in water/river, resurrected by fire magic, and has the terrible features of a weirwood.

Me too.

[GloubieBoulga]

13 hours ago, Cowboy Dan said:

Yes, precisely! That dual lightbringer scene with the swords of pale flame are what lead me to the connection in the first place. Pink and blue are for the dusk/dawn and in my eyes are connected to Jon and Jaime quite heavily. Both also receive similar wounds when they have their "kill the boy" moment.

Interresting connection, indeed (and that's for me another argument to say that Jon will finish what Jaime began : definitly killing Bran with a pointy end). 

So, I come back with some points to explore a bit more what some of you exposed here : 

- first, the probable encounter between Jaime and LSH : for that, we need to come back to their first incounter, in ACOK Catelyn VII, when Jaime was prisonner at Riverrun and when Catelyn made him free, despite the fact she had furious desire to kill him (and at the end of the chapter, when she ask Brienne for her sword, we believe she will kill or try to kill him). 

This chapter show us a woman exhausted with vengeance and in the same time with a huge vengeance desire : 

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"I want them all dead, Brienne. Theon Greyjoy first, then Jaime Lannister and Cersei and the Imp, every one, every one. But my girls . . . my girls will . . ."

Here, we see that her girls retains her desire. She will say to her father in agony that she wants her girls back.

But let's continue with her words to Brienne : 

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The Starks do not use headsmen. Ned always said that the man who passes the sentence should swing the blade, though he never took any joy in the duty. But I would, oh, yes. (Catelyn VII, ACOK)

Here, the interest is the connection to a trial, with Catelyn as judge and headswoman. Imo, we could have a little foreshadowing of another scene that happens in ADWD, in Bran's vision when he dreams of Winterfell's weirwood : the woman with white hairs who cuts the throat of a man. During their discuss, at a moment, Jaime says to Catelyn : 

 

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"My son may be young, but if you take him for a fool, you are sadly mistaken . . . and it seems to me that you were not so quick to make challenges when you had an army at your back."

"Did the old Kings of Winter hide behind their mothers' skirts as well?"

"I grow weary of this, ser. There are things I must know."

 

 

Jaime was talking about a single combat with Robb, as a godly trial, and that was just after he explained he hadn't take the wine she offered, because he thought it could be poison (and a death by poison is easier to hide as sickness than just killing with a sword). So, this passage is entirely about possible Jaime's death's sentence. 

In this chapter, Catelyn says she goes to see and speak with "the Kingslayer" (not Jaime Lannister). As he confess he "flung [Bran] throw a window", we could say that this "Kingslayer" symbolizes also the fact that Bran is a king-character. But this can also be a reference to an old Stark story, where a king was slayed, and where a kingslayer was found, judged, and killed... by the king's mother. Here Catelyn could be replaying the part of this woman with white hairs, but with a notably difference : Catelyn makes Jaime free. I see in this fact the beginning for a reparation (a interruption in what I call "the Stark's curse") : it's not a pardon, but Catelyn Stark loves her daughters far more than her vengeance. 

Another quote from this chapter, which - imo again - is telling about this ancient story volontary hidden (and the explanation was she was hidden), Catelyn is thinking for herself : 

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Until what ? Foolish woman, will holding it secret in your heart make it any less true? If you never tell, never speak of it, will it become only a dream, less than a dream, a nightmare half-remembered? Oh, if only the gods would be so good. (Catelyn VII, ACOK)

Note that we find the same kind of reflexion (about a prediction) with Cersei in AFFC : not telling a prophecy will make it never becoming true. The difference here is about the time : Catelyn is thinking to events that happened (and are real, and impact the present time), and Cersei to event that will/could happen in the future but have no consistance in the present. 

So, I ask : could have been the Wall (and Winterfell) a temptation to change the past, or made that he never happen ? And could the Others be the shadows of this past ? The chapter after this Catelyn's chapter is Theon's chapter, when he is at Winterfell and have horribles nightmares where deads give him torments : at the beginning, the dead are the one he is responsible (miller's sons and miller's wife), but at the end, it extends to all the Starks, the family and people who lived in the castle, even the wildling he killed in AGOT to save Bran (but this one was a deserter from the NW, so that could significate that the "blood" of the NWatcher become a "stark blood" by living at the Wall). The Ironmen doesn't appear.

But let's come back to Jaime and Catelyn/LSH : @sweetsunray presented good arguments to explain that LSH isn't only blindly full of revenge. I follow her, trying to present Catelyn as "curse's breaker" (as Daenerys is a "chainbreaker"), but with human dimension, so with temptations. I think also it's interesting to compare Lady Catelyn to Lord Rickard Karstark, who kills to Lannister boys to avenge the death of his sons : he want blood for blood and before he dies, he curses Robb.

So, I realy doubt that Jaime and Brienne's story will end with LSH. There is also perhaps a little and ironically foreshadowing, in a Sansa's chapter (the first chapter of the Battle of the Black Water), which follows immediatly the Theon's chapter I was evocating. This is the last sentence, the words of Cersei :

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"True knights." The queen seemed to find that wonderfully amusing. "No doubt you're right. So why don't you just eat your broth like a good girl and wait for Symeon Star-Eyes and Prince Aemon the Dragonknight to come rescue you, sweetling. I'm sure it won't be very long now." (Sansa V, ACOK)

  

Surely, Jaime and Brienne could have to finish their quest, and find and save Sansa (why not from Cersei and Robert Stone ?) 

 

- About @Seams butcher's stuff, I found Sandor Clegane, in ACOK, who tells from himself (and from all the knights) as butchers (it is in Sansa IV, ACOK). Indeed, this is what wolfs are, butchers, and not kings (same as lions Lannister). Does it significate that the one who wears the sword can't be true king ? That would be a manner to break another cliche in the mythology and epic fantasy : the sword makes the king/the lord. I suspect it's not the case in ASOIAF (poor Stannis !)

 

Sorry for all the others very interestings things I have read in this thread, I would want answer to all, but english isn't my language, so I'm long for writing an understandable post and I've no more time ! 

 

 

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[sapphire_lion]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but GRRM was recently asked about Jaime and Brienne's relationship. His response boded well for their survival (at least in the short term) imo.

With answers like "It's evolving" and "They're getting to know each other", they'd both have to be around for some time longer I would think. GRRM referenced the antagonism they once shared in past tense, then switched it to present and future tense. His facial expressions were rather telling as well. I highly recommend checking it out.

Honestly, I've always believed both Jaime and Brienne would survive the LS ordeal. I think something supernatural may even intervene (a giant wolf pack, a mass unkindness of ravens like in the Russian addition, the old gods, flaming swords, etc.) From a narrative standpoint I truly believe both have more arc in them. Plus, GRRM once said Brienne's "journey still has a way to go". So I know I am at least half right.

http://virgin-who-cannot-drive.tumblr.com/post/80814484352/grrm-talks-brienne-of-tarth-game-of-thrones

[Leo of House Cartel]

@Lost Melnibonean Great topic dude!

Option 4 or 3 seems the most plausible, based on Briennes honour and the cruelty shown by LSH. I do wonder about the actual intructions she recieved from the Brotherhood, aswell as their intentions when they have The Kingslayer in their grasp.

There is obviously a great deal of strategic maneuvering going on in the Riverlands, a lot of which can be attributed to TBWB, so would it perhaps be less likely that they intend to execute Jaime and more likely that they intend to ransom him to some other party? Cat had Jaime captured during TWOT5K, and could obviously have used her hostage in a more useful manner than the way she did. This is bound to be a sore point for any Northern/Riverlands based Stark/Tully loyalists/broken men, and probably Lady Stoneheart too. The high ranking members of TBWB will also be all too aware of Cats previous folly in releasing Jaime, and while they do follow Lady Stoneheart, I'm sure such crafty players would see Jaime to have more v,alue as a prisoner rather than a corpse. 

Then again, who or what would a ransom situation involve? I can't imagine Lem or Thoros expecting say, Cersei or Daven Lannister to actually pay their end of the bargain should they offer some trade for Jaime, and neither the Freys or Boltons seem appropriate avenues of business for obvious reasons. Some deal with the Dornish or Stannis could be useful choices, and if Jaime is captive for a while, Aegon, Dany or even Euron maybe eventually made an offer.

Rather than simply offering Jaime to some party in exchange for money/terms, TBWB may be better suited to use The Kingslayer as bait to draw in potential Frey/Lannister prey. How about taking him to Moat Cailin, sending a raven to KL or Casterly Rock and waiting for the opposition?

Let's not forget The Blackfish. If Ser Brynden joins forces with LSH by the time Jaime and Brienne get to The Brotherhoods camp then the whole structure of The Brotherhood could be in for great change. Would Brynden allow LSH to execute Jaime and get nothing other than selfish vengeance in return? We don't know how the undead Cat will react to her brother, but a family reunion may be just what she needs to get calm her down a bit.

I don't see the ever honourable Brienne deciding Jaimes life is worth less than some oath she made to a dead woman, and this same nature would surely drive her to want to save the lives of Ser Hyle and Pod. I assume she told the "Hound lie" because she is being closely watched, and any loyalty she may have to Cat may also stop her from bringing down a full army on the Brotherhood. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

30 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

@Lost Melnibonean Great topic dude!

Option 4 or 3 seems the most plausible, based on Briennes honour and the cruelty shown by LSH. I do wonder about the actual intructions she recieved from the Brotherhood, aswell as their intentions when they have The Kingslayer in their grasp.

There is obviously a great deal of strategic maneuvering going on in the Riverlands, a lot of which can be attributed to TBWB, so would it perhaps be less likely that they intend to execute Jaime and more likely that they intend to ransom him to some other party? Cat had Jaime captured during TWOT5K, and could obviously have used her hostage in a more useful manner than the way she did. This is bound to be a sore point for any Northern/Riverlands based Stark/Tully loyalists/broken men, and probably Lady Stoneheart too. The high ranking members of TBWB will also be all too aware of Cats previous folly in releasing Jaime, and while they do follow Lady Stoneheart, I'm sure such crafty players would see Jaime to have more v,alue as a prisoner rather than a corpse. 

Then again, who or what would a ransom situation involve? I can't imagine Lem or Thoros expecting say, Cersei or Daven Lannister to actually pay their end of the bargain should they offer some trade for Jaime, and neither the Freys or Boltons seem appropriate avenues of business for obvious reasons. Some deal with the Dornish or Stannis could be useful choices, and if Jaime is captive for a while, Aegon, Dany or even Euron maybe eventually made an offer.

Rather than simply offering Jaime to some party in exchange for money/terms, TBWB may be better suited to use The Kingslayer as bait to draw in potential Frey/Lannister prey. How about taking him to Moat Cailin, sending a raven to KL or Casterly Rock and waiting for the opposition?

Let's not forget The Blackfish. If Ser Brynden joins forces with LSH by the time Jaime and Brienne get to The Brotherhoods camp then the whole structure of The Brotherhood could be in for great change. Would Brynden allow LSH to execute Jaime and get nothing other than selfish vengeance in return? We don't know how the undead Cat will react to her brother, but a family reunion may be just what she needs to get calm her down a bit.

I don't see the ever honourable Brienne deciding Jaimes life is worth less than some oath she made to a dead woman, and this same nature would surely drive her to want to save the lives of Ser Hyle and Pod. I assume she told the "Hound lie" because she is being closely watched, and any loyalty she may have to Cat may also stop her from bringing down a full army on the Brotherhood. 

I have never even contemplated the Brotherhood ransom in Jaime, and given their past actions, I doubt anyone would be inclined to treat with them to ransom Jaime's release, but, of course, Dave might feel obligated to try. It's an interesting possibility, but I think the Brotherhood is more about vengeance now. 

The Blackfish is Catelyn's uncle not her brother, or were you suggesting a future reunion with Edmure? 

Regarding what Brienne honors, I am too lazy to look for it now, but IIRC, at one time she though an oath sworn to a decedent carried was even more solemn than one sworn to a survivor. 

[Leo of House Cartel]

12 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

I have never even contemplated the Brotherhood ransom in Jaime, and given their past actions, I doubt anyone would be inclined to treat with them to ransom Jaime's release, but, of course, Dave might feel obligated to try. It's an interesting possibility, but I think the Brotherhood is more about vengeance now. 

The Blackfish is Catelyn's uncle not her brother, or were you suggesting a future reunion with Edmure? 

Regarding what Brienne honors, I am too lazy to look for it now, but IIRC, at one time she though an oath sworn to a decedent carried was even more solemn than one sworn to a survivor. 

I meant to say uncle, however I would imagine rescuing Edmure as he is being transported would be high on the Blackfish's list of priorities. If Edmure could be reunited with Brynden and Lady Stoneheart, the Brotherhood would be helmed by three of the main figureheads from The Young Wolfs army. Such allies could do a great deal to bring around anyone in The Riverlands who does not sympathise with the Brotherhoods guerilla rebel tactics.

I do agree TBWB seems to be focused on vegeance, but considering their existing infrastructure, power with the common folk and status as revolutionaries, I have to imagine at least a few of the high officers realise just how well set up The Brotherhood are to make a real change in The Riverlands. While I don't doubt the current plans are mainly to kill Red Wedding plotters and Riverlands butchers, i do wonder how many Brotherhood members have been thinking about an endgame?

[Cridefea]

1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Regarding what Brienne honors, I am too lazy to look for it now, but IIRC, at one time she though an oath sworn to a decedent carried was even more solemn than one sworn to a survivor. 

This? 

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She had promised Lady Catelyn that she would bring back her daughters, and no promise was as solemn as one sworn to the dead. 

(AFfC, Brienne I)

But I agree with @Leo of House Cartel it doesn't means she considers her vow to Cat more important than Jaime's life. And anyway she sees LSH and Cat as if they're 2 different women. The real vow to save Sansa was sworn to Cat and to Jaime, and it means more to her than whatever LSH can say.

 

9 hours ago, sapphire_lion said:

Snip

Yeah damn earphone!!! he used it to skip the complete answear

Btw great profile pic and nickname  

[Lost Melnibonean]

5 minutes ago, Cridefea said:

This? 

(AFfC, Brienne I)

But I agree with @Leo of House Cartel it doesn't means she considers her vow to Cat more important than Jaime's life. And anyway she sees LSH and Cat as if they're 2 different women. The real vow to save Sansa was sworn to Cat and to Jaime, and it means more to her than whatever LSH can say.

 

Yeah damn earphone!!! he used it to skip the complete answear

Btw great profile pic and nickname  

I don't know... If I am even more inclined to honor a pledge made to person who has died, I am going to very reluctant to disavow that pledge if the bugger's shade comes calling. 

[Seams]

I have a possible new twist for this discussion, based on a re-read of ACoK, Catelyn V yesterday. This is the chapter where Catelyn and Brienne are making their way from the camp of the late King Renly, back to Riverrun. It reads like a jumble of random events and conversations until you pair it with the events of Lady Stoneheart being reunited with "Ned's Sword" (Oathkeeper), the Brotherhood Without Banners and Lady Stoneheart preparing to hang Brienne and "Brienne" luring Jaime to a secret location where the hound supposedly holds Sansa Stark.

I think these are the relevant details from ACoK, Catelyn V that can help us to sort out the ADwD events that are the focus of this post:

• Brienne pledges her services as a knight to Lady Catelyn.
• Catelyn says to Brienne, "I . . . pledge to ask no service of you that might bring you into dishonor."
• As they approach Riverrun, they see "dead men hanging from the battlements." The red cloaks indicate they are Lannister men.
• Catelyn thinks, "If they have slain the kingslayer,then  my daughters are dead as well."
• Edmure explains that the hanged men were "false envoys," sent with the negotiator Ser Cleos Frey but on a secret mission to free Jaime Lannister from his cell. "The one on the end was some sort of damned mummer. He used my own voice to command that the River Gate be opened. . . . If you ask me, the man sounded nothing like me, and yet the oafs were raising the portcullis all the same." After some combat, Jaime is recaptured and put in a dark cell.
• Edmure shares with Catelyn his plan to work with the proven-loyal bannermen of Houses Frey and Bolton to engage the larger Lannister army in the field.
• The dying Lord Hoster mistakes Catelyn for Lysa and believes they are both still maids (unmarried).
• The silent sisters have delivered Ned Stark's bones and laid them out for Catelyn to view. She notices that the sword with the body is not Ned's sword, Ice.
• Catelyn expresses her envy that the silent sisters can talk to the dead.

Of course, by the time we have seen Brienne approach Jaime and ask him to accompany her to the place where The Hound and Sansa are supposed to be, the tables have been turned:

• The Boltons and Freys were not good allies for Robb and the Tullys, and the Lannister army was not destroyed;
• Edmure was (sort of) hanging by a rope on a gallows at the seige outside of Riverrun;
• Edmure agrees to break the seige and go to Casterly Rock as a hostage so his soon-to-be-born child will not be harmed.
• Brynden "Blackfish" Tully escapes, probably by swimming under the closed portcullis;
• The sword Oathkeeper is not exactly the same as the sword Ice, but it's as close as is possible at this point. Because Brienne was using it when she was taken by the BWB, the sword is now in Lady Stoneheart's hands.
• Brienne was (definitely) hanging by a rope on an elm tree, courtesy of Lady Stoneheart and the BWB.

Enough of these ADwD elements match up with (or are the opposite of) the ACoK elements, that I think we have to consider the other elements as well, and we can use them to make some predictions about what will happen in TWoW.

It's the false envoy and mummer parts of the plot to free Jaime in ACoK that intrigue me. I don't think those are part of the Jaime / Edmure story in ADwD, but are instead part of the Jaime / Brienne story. My prediction is that the "Brienne" we see approaching Jaime at the end of ADwD is not actually Brienne - it's a mummer Brienne, probably a glamor.

I know, I know: everyone is a secret Targ and everyone is a glamor. In this case, though, we have the mummer foreshadowing from the ACoK chapter and a couple other clues:

• Thoros of Myr is not happy with the way the Brotherhood has changed since Lord Beric finally died for the last time and Lady Stoneheart took over.
• Thoros probably witnessed the brutal hangings of Brienne and her companions, and knows what the plan is for Jaime.
• Thoros has skills he doesn't even understand, and might be able to create a glamor who can lure Jaime to safety before Lady Stoneheart can send Brienne to kill him, if that's the plan.
• I suspect the glamor is either Willow or Jeyne Heddle, who are symbolic versions of Arya and Sansa Stark. Brienne has told everyone she is searching for her "sister," a maid of 13 with auburn hair. The scene with Hoster Tully confusing the two sisters may have been foreshadowing of the swapping of Brienne and her "sister," who is a glamor working for Thoros.
• There may be a parallel in Thoros saving Jaime to go alongside whatever help Melisandre will provide to Jon after he is killed by his "brothers" in the Night's Watch.

If you can stand a further layer of complication, I think there is also a Baratheon subplot converging on this situation. Thoros of Myr was the first over the wall when Robert Baratheon's forces stormed Pyke during Balon's Rebellion. Ser Loras Tyrell is the first over the wall at Dragonstone, the castle that had been home to Stannis. I think there is a parallel in these acts by these two characters, but I haven't fully sorted it out. My suspicion is that Renly's Ghost protects his three "spouses": Brienne (we saw him put a cloak on her shoulders and she had his sword for awhile - I think she will get it back eventually), Ser Loras (his true love) and Margaery (his nominal wife and queen).

In the ACoK chapter, there had been discussion of Storm's End, and Ser Cortnay Penrose trying to survive and to protect Edric Storm while surrounded by forces of Stannis and, as mentioned earlier, Lannister men hanging from a castle wall. In ADwD, we have The Blackfish swimming under the wall and a threat to throw Edmure's baby over the wall. There's a motif with walls here, and with protecting / harming daughters and sons, and it seems to bring together Tullys, Lannisters, Baratheons, Starks and Brienne. And Greyjoys and Sandor Clegane, indirectly. And priests of the red god.

But I may be wrong.