Lord Varys

George's story in Book of Swords

90 posts in this topic

Since amazon.com also says this is a thing what do you want it to be?

Surely a new Dunk & Egg story would be great but it is much more likely we'll get another (abridged) version of Gyldayn's history (although I must say I really, really want to read a new Dunk & Egg story).

If so, would you prefer the full version of 'The Sons of the Dragon' covering the reigns of both Aenys I and Maegor the Cruel or the end of the Dance (restoration and fall of Aegon II and rise of Aegon III) as well as the account on the Regency of Aegon III?

The overall theme of the anthology could allow for both. The Faith Militant Uprising and Maegor's wars as well as the end and aftermath of the Dance seem to have been pretty bloody.

Edited by Lord Varys

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I'll take anything (trying not to drool)!

Thanks for the notice @Lord Varys. How many days until October 10?

To answer the OP, give me Aenys and Maegor. I'm most interested in the happenings of early Targ dynasty.

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1 minute ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

I'll take anything (trying not to drool)!

Thanks for the notice @Lord Varys. How many days until October 10?

To answer the OP, give me Aenys and Maegor. I'm most interested in the happenings of early Targ dynasty.

I'd prefer that, too. More information on the Conqueror would also be pretty much appreciated if Aenys + Maegor alone doesn't cover enough pages. But then, the end of the Dance and the Regency of Aegon III supposedly is a very interesting time period if you can believe Ran and Linda (which we should on that matter).

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Since GRRM has previously stated that he wouldn't continue working on a Dunk & Egg tale until after the completion of Winds, I don't think chances of such a story are very high.

Since we have rather detailed notes from the reading of The Sons of the Dragon from 2014 (especially yours, @Lord Varys;) ), I hope it will be about the reign of Aegon III. Though a detailed account on the reign of Aegon I (right up until the moment where The Sons of the Dragon picks up) would also be great.

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I'd really like it to be that She Wolves of Winterfell story that was spoken of a few years ago. 

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49 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Since GRRM has previously stated that he wouldn't continue working on a Dunk & Egg tale until after the completion of Winds, I don't think chances of such a story are very high.

I know. But then, he wrote a lot of the Gyldayn stuff while writing ADwD. If he has written himself into a corner he could have decided to work on some Dunk & Egg story after all, finishing it without ever mentioning it. Not all that likely, though, I admit it.

But then, considering the narrative simplicity of most of the Dunk & Egg stories it should not take too long to write such a story despite the tendency to make them somewhat more complicated.

49 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Since we have rather detailed notes from the reading of The Sons of the Dragon from 2014 (especially yours, @Lord Varys;) ), I hope it will be about the reign of Aegon III. Though a detailed account on the reign of Aegon I (right up until the moment where The Sons of the Dragon picks up) would also be great.

Not sure if such a detailed account of the reign of Aegon I exists. There might be some details on the First Dornish War and the founding/development of KL and so forth in part of the 'Fire and Blood' history but 'The Sons of the Dragon' also touches quite extensively on the reign of the Conqueror, at least insofar as it affected the childhood, youth, and marriages of his sons. It is in there that we learn that Alyn Stokeworth succeeded Ser Osmund Strong as Hand in the last years of the reign of the Conqueror. Aenys I just allowed him to remain in office.

Maegor's reign certainly could be rather interesting. I'm still dying to get the details on the story of Prince Aegon and Quicksilver and to learn more about how Alyssa and her children fared during the Faith Militant Uprising and Maegor's later reign.

If the story is about the Regency it should pick up exactly where TPatQ left. I'd be very pissed if the remainder of the Dance was skipped and the story began just with Aegon III coronation and wedding.

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Great news man, Im swaying towards Maegor and Aenys but either side of the coin would be golden and it's certainly got my blood up!.

Both options would assumedly contain a high number of hints and potential rabbit holes. Either way, come October I'm sure many a theory will be concieved in the wake of Book of Swords. Both sides of the coin should have massive bearing on our understanding of several key plot elements heading into TWOW.

If we get some more Gyldayne, I wonder what seeds may be planted if George chooses to give us details of the fate of someone like Alys Rivers. What questions could information regarding Lord Benjicott Blackwood and Bill Burley raise?  Any information on the fate of the dragons could surley have impact on how we may percieve Rhaegal, Visserion and Drogon.

The Maegor and Aenys route could potentially provide more information on the behaviour dragons than Gyldaynes tale (how many dragons will be around by that point to effectivley cover). I've always wanted to learn more of Balerion. The Black Dread is as much of an enigma as Aegon I himself and GRRM seems to be holding back on a detailed account.

I think both options could potentially give the reader more of an understanding of Varys and Illyrios agenda. The Dance tale may give us clues to the political maneuvering Dany/Aegon may encounter in the next books, and I'm sure many connections could be esablished between the Sparrow movement and the Faith Uprising. The Sons path could give us a good insight into origional Targaryen/Valyrian culture. Shoot me if I sound sentimental but knowing more about the founding basis for the Dragon Kings could definately help instill the readers with a sence of pride when Aegon or Dany ride/fly into battle.

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I wanted a book covering the reign of Jaehaerys I, so we can finally understand more of Barth's work

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A new Dunk and Egg with some more info from the storyteller about where the second and/or third main conflicts are headed. 

I saw this over in the Winds subforum earlier today, and I have been trying to act normal all day. I cannot freaking wait! 

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I'd prefer the complete Sons of the Dragon more than an account of Aegon III's regency or the tail-end of the Dance given that we won't have a full account of the rest of the war to go along with that plus I'm personally dying for more information on Maegor the Cruel. The man may have been a horrible king but damn is he and his reign fascinating. Plus, we might actually get some new info regarding the other Dornish Wars apart from the 1st. Fingers crossed!

Edited by The Grey Wolf

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25 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

A new Dunk and Egg with some more info from the storyteller about where the second and/or third main conflicts are headed. 

I saw this over in the Winds subforum earlier today, and I have been trying to act normal all day. I cannot freaking wait! 

In which thread did it come up? I didn't see any new thread discussing this thing, else I'd not have created this thread.

42 minutes ago, The Hammer of Justice said:

I wanted a book covering the reign of Jaehaerys I, so we can finally understand more of Barth's work

Ran told me once they don't have all that material on the reign of the Old King. The really long pieces are the reign of Viserys I, the Dance, and the Regency of Aegon III. 'The Sons of the Dragon' is much shorter already.

24 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

I'd prefer the complete Sons of the Dragon more than an account of Aegon III's regency or the tail-end of the Dance given that we won't have a full account of the rest of the war to go along with that plus I'm personally dying for more information on Maegor the Cruel. The man may have been a horrible king but damn is he and his reign fascinating. Plus, we might actually get some new info regarding the other Dornish Wars apart from the 1st. Fingers crossed!

Again, both 'The Sons of the Dragon' and the end of the Dance and the Regency would contain a lot of 'swordy material', presumably, so both could work. I guess it depends whether the account on the reign of Maegor is entertaining as a story. It might be too short for that. And we basically get this material in those anthologies because George doesn't really write any short stories. Originally 'Dangerous Women' should contain the fourth Dunk & Egg story.

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Yeah, I lean towards an excerpt from "Fire and Blood" given that it already "exists" and would require minimal extra writing.

....I really hope some day we get a full dragon lineage.  Right now we can only guess.  I mean, Sons of the Dragon reading kind of...implies, that Vermithor and Silverwing were hatched early in Aenys's reign, around the same time.  It also mentioned a few other dragon details ("about half a dozen" hatchlings along with Quicksilver). 

Size loosely correlates with age, so the extremely provisional scheme/guesswork I have so far is:

Generation 1

  • Balerion
  • Meraxes
  • Vhagar

Technically Balerion was "Generation Zero", along with the other four original Targaryen dragons.  We know that they were in fact not used up in "Dance of the Dragons Zero", given that Ran stated that the Balerion vs Quicksilver fight was the first time dragons had clashed since the Doom of Valyria. 

Generation 2

"around half a dozen hatchlings" followed by a pair that hatched at the same time, probably Vermithor and Silverwing

Dragons which were "large" during the Dance.

  • Quicksilver - mount of Aenys
  • Dreamfyre - mount of Rhaena, daughter of Aenys
  • Meleys - eventual mount of Rhaenys, the Queen Who Never Was.  "The Red Queen" - an egg-layer?
  • The Sheepstealer - hatched when Old King Jaehaerys was young, not mounted until the Dance
  • The Cannibal - if indeed he was a hatchling they lost track of, and not another Valyrian dragon
  • Syrax - possibly hatched nearer to the end of Jaehaerys I's reign - she was named by Rhaenyra.  The only confirmed egg-layer.
  • Caraxes - same as Syrax.  Large, but maybe not alive when Quicksilver hatched. 
  • Vermithor - mount of Jaehaerys I
  • Silverwing - mount of Alysanne

Jaehaerys and Alysanne flew to Winterfell in a great flight of six dragons - probably including Balerion and Vhagar, definitely Vermithor and Silverwing.  I suspect the two others were probably Dreamfyre and Meleys - you get the impression that Meleys was bigger than even Caraxes.  Caraxes faced a tough fight against Vhagar (albeit very dangerous), while they mention that Meleys could probably at least hold her own agains Vhagar. 

Generation 3

Younger dragons still of fighting weight during the Dance, ranging from medium to light; that is, "medium and dangerous, nearly big enough to be called large" (Sunfyre) down to "able to carry a small rider, but not worth risking in combat" (Tyraxes and Moondancer). 
 

  • Sunfyre
  • Tessarion - "The Blue Queen", possibly an egg-layer? Relatively young.
  • Seasmoke
  • Vermax
  • Arrax
  • Tyraxes - I suspect all three of the dragons ridden by Rhaenyra's sons were progeny of Syrax and Caraxes.
  • Moondancer
  • Grey Ghost

Generation 4

Hatchlings too small to ride during the Dance

  • Morghul - bonded with Jaehaera
  • Shrykos - bonded with young Jaehaerys
  • Stormcloud - bonded with young Aegon III, managed to fly him back to coast in desperation
  • Morning - hatched late in the Dance, belonged to Rhaena of Pentos

I wonder if Morghul and Shrykos were laid by Tessarion - had to be some reason she was called "The Blue Queen". 

Another question:  did even the Targaryens understand that dragons can shift gender?  Yandel and Gyldayn weren't entirely consistent; some dragons are consistently called "he" and others "she", but Caraxes alternates between both.

What I mean is....did even THEY know which dragons laid the eggs?  Or did they just find them on the dragonmont after they were laid?  They apparently just assumed dragons were male, up until they were observed laying eggs - then they decided "hey they must have been female all along". 

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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I just checked Audible and got nada.   Book of Swords is the name of this what?   Is it an anthology or something he's written?   I'm looking at you, @Leo of House Cartel --is there any hope at all this story could be about one or many of our Valyrian Swords???  Give me some information so I can check some sources! 

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Re: Dornish Wars

....they mention conflicts with Dorne "under Aegon's sons", but they seemed at peace during the reigns of Jaehaerys and Viserys.  Vulture Kings apparently don't count.

At the *bare minimum*, I think it's:
 

  • First Dornish War - Aegon I and his sisters, an outgrowth of the War of Conquest. 
  • Second Dornish War - better known as "the Conquest of Dorne", by Daeron I
  • Third Dornish War - Aegon IV's...stunt with wooden dragons and wildfire.  Best forgotten.

But the exact lines are so vague.  And why would Maegor attack Dorne when he's already dealing with the Faith Militant uprising?

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17 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Text

The problem with that is Gyldayn explicitly says in the account on the Conquest that "sporadic attempts to bring the Dornishmen into the realm continued all through King Aegon's reign and well into the reigns of his sons, making it impossible to fix a precise end date for the Wars of Conquest" and in the Dornish section of TWOIAF it mentions that "there were other Dornish Wars to be sure", which may not include the campaigns of Daeron I or Aegon IV given they aren't named as such anywhere. If I had to postulate I'd say the Dornish Wars were as follows:

The First (Aegon I) (4-13 AC)

The Second (Aenys I) (37-39 AC, while Maegor was Hand)

The Third (Maegor I) (45/46-47 AC, during a lull in the Faith Militant Uprising or perhaps an attempt by Maegor to stem his rising unpopularity by uniting the realm behind him against a common foe, possibly after accusing Dorne of supporting rebels or the Vulture King during his older half-brother's reign)

The Fourth (Daeron I) (157-158 AC) (I consider the successful Dornish rebellion in 161 AC a separate event)

The Fifth (Aegon IV) (174 AC) (There may have been other attempts by Aegon IV to reconquer Dorne, which if not the case, will leave me personally quite disappointed)

48 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Text

I'm not sure the end of the Dance would have been particularly bloody. The only major battle after Rhaenyra's death is the Battle of the Kingsroad, which seems to have been an curbstomp of the Greens but my main issue with it being about the end of the Dance is that we don't have a full account of the war prior to whatever point the story will start from, which is problematic for me, hence why I'd prefer it to be the full text of The Sons of the Dragon.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

In which thread did it come up? I didn't see any new thread discussing this thing, else I'd not have created this thread.

It wasn't a dedicated thread. Just a post in that pinned thread for Winds developments...

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/142525-the-ultimate-winds-of-winter-resource/&do=findComment&comment=7855369

I am glad you started this topic, but I wonder if the mods will lock it...

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Quote

The Grey Wolf

That's a damn fine speculative list of Dornish Wars, Grey Wolf.  Fine indeed.  I must confess I was too comfortable on my couch to stand up and walk the dozen feet to my bookshelf to doublecheck the exact wording of he World book from my shelf (it may has well have been on the moon!)

Well, what we know of the Dance post-Second Tumbleton:

  • The Westerlands are exhausted and overrun with ironborn raiders.  Their armies died at the Fishfeed.
  • Any Green crownlander Houses were destroyed at Butcher's Ball.
  • The much-diminished Hightower army retreated from Tumbleton back to Oldtown, probably to assume a defensive posture against the ironborn.  I don't see them as being "a factor" again, Unwin Peake was barely holding them together. 
  • The fresh, full-strength stormlands armies of Borros Baratheon finally march, and help Aegon II retake King's Landing from the rioters, Moon of Three Kings and such ( I expect the streets to be ankle-deep in blood; you DO NOT let the rabble revolt like that.  Better to wipe them out and bring in new smallfolk to start over from scratch). 
  • Johanna Lannister, widow of Jason, rallies what's left of the westerlands to throw back the ironborn, leading to a localized war that lasts six years, outlasting the Dance itself. 
  • The surviving Black army under the Lads (Blackwoods and Tullys), battle-hardened survivors of every major land battle in the war, march south against King's Landing.  I can't figure out why; Borros's army was already there and outnumbered them.  Why not wait for reinforcements from the North and the Vale, which hadn't used up all their manpower yet?  What urgency was there?  Perhaps....save Aegon III before Aegon II can produce another viable male heir?

But we know all that.

The Regency era does sound interesting - it wasn't large scale battles (other than the ongoing Lannister-Greyjoy sub-war), but it was a massive amount of court intrigue, betrayals, murder, jockeying for power.  Unwin Peake is the Littlefinger of his day (Gormenghast and all).  And his rivalry with Alyn Oakenfist Velaryon.

Bu seriously; "not particularly bloody"?  A full-strength Baratheon army *retaking King's Landing*, no quarter asked or given?  It's the god-damned Peasant's Revolt or Jacquerie ending all over again. 

I wonder who technically "leads" the remaining Blacks after Rhaenyra dies and Aegon III is captured.  No one?  Rhaena of Pentos nominally or at least important? 

Big thing I want to know more about that they only really mention in passing is what was going on in the Free Cities:
 

  • Battle of the Gullet was practically a pyrrhic victory for the Kingdom of the Three Daughters, two thirds of their fleet lost.  Thrown into such chaos that by the next year it was "tearing itself apart".
  • The northern Free Cities Braavos, Pentos, and Lorath (*even* Lorath) enter into a counter-alliance to attack the already badly weakened Triarchy (they'd been growing wary of them for decades).  So we've got a major regional show-down between major powerblock alliances of the Free Cities.
  • Somehow, Lys actually ends up on top in all of this; the Black Swann takes over the entire city from her brothel; my guess is she throws Myr and Tyrosh under the bus to come out stronger individually.  The whole time period is called the Lyseni Spring.  And we've even got the rise of the Rogare Bank *bigger* than the Iron Bank of Braavos. 
     

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1 hour ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Text

Thanks for the compliment! I have a PDF of the TWOIAF in addition to a hard copy so looking up specific quotes is not hard for me.

Anyway, I just want to clarify that when I wrote that I don't think the end of the Dance would have been particularly bloody I wasn't taking into account the retaking of King's Landing and meant only that by the time of Rhaenyra's death the bloodiest parts of the war had past given that there was only one major battle in 131 AC which by all appearances was decisive rather than pyrrhic.

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7 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

I just checked Audible and got nada.   Book of Swords is the name of this what?   Is it an anthology or something he's written?   I'm looking at you, @Leo of House Cartel --is there any hope at all this story could be about one or many of our Valyrian Swords???  Give me some information so I can check some sources! 

Well ser, westeros.org has some information up regarding other authors featured and such. Some talented writers like Robin Hobb so hopefully George won't want to be outdone and will give us something juicy to sink our teeth into.

Plenty potential sword theory surrounding both the Gyldayne and Maegor tales. Would be great to hear of the practicalities of both Blackfyre and Dark Sister in the training yard. If George goes the dance route, we could perhaps find a clearer avenue to go down in regards to the fate of Lamentation and Vigiliance. I wonder, would the timing of the Aegon III story allow for a recounting of the expedition to retrieve Dark Sister from the lake?

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5 hours ago, zandru said:

How about the final chapter of "A Song of Ice & Fire"?

Seems as if George RR is incredibly prolific - except for the last volumes of this particular series.

The Dunk and Egg novellas, the Dance of the Dragon histories, and TWOIAF, are all ancillary to ASOIAF. 

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