Lord Varys

George's story in Book of Swords

97 posts in this topic

That should do nicely.

 

Dear god, they cut out Dothraki and Yi Ti stuff?  how the hell will we ever get to see that?

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31 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

I wish GRRM would clarify this so we can write it up in the wiki page.

You could try asking him on his NotABlog.

27 minutes ago, The Dragon Demands said:

That should do nicely.

Dear god, they cut out Dothraki and Yi Ti stuff?  how the hell will we ever get to see that?

Good question. If only we had an actual Summon Administrator spell.

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I did ask on Not a Blog.  And I did send messages to Elio and Linda.

Like the Red Priests, we beseech the Lord to hear our prayers and bring back the dawn - but only He can deign to respond.

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What they could do is to put the deleted sections from the history of the Seven Kingdoms and the lands beyond Westeros on some blog or on George's homepage.

That is pretty often done with a lot material that's cut from this kind of illustrated companion book. A very notable example I remember was the Star Wars Essential Guide to Warfare. People usually can get kind of carried away when writing stuff like that. And they later just made a sort of online series out of, posting portions of the deleted stuff every week or month or so for some time afterwards.

I suggested something like that a while back here and a few days later we got the full version of the Westerlands history on George's site.

One could do stuff like that for all the other cuts, especially if there were substantial ones. Ran and Linda would have the material to do so and that could actually be reasonable good promotion (and would certainly be great and much appreciated fan service).

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As there has, in the past, been a passing remark or two about a revised edition of the TWoIaF, nothing says that we might not get the rest of the material out that way. Which is why we haven't suggested publishing all sorts of stuff that was cut, as we may have use of it for that. George may opt to release a piece or two more over the years on his website, but I would not look for all the material ending up on-line.

 

 

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@Ran

That makes sense. The idea of a revised edition of TWoIaF never crossed my mind ;-).

If no such plans existed the other way could have worked considering there should be no space for Yi Ti and the like in 'Fire and Blood'.

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Another option, down the road, is a sort of Unfinished Tales, with various scraps put together, if George doesn't want to finish up some of these pieces (some of them need polishing in their full form). It could also include any lengthy extracts from ASoIaF drafts, like that Shrouded Lord chapter.

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6 minutes ago, Ran said:

Another option, down the road, is a sort of Unfinished Tales, with various scraps put together, if George doesn't want to finish up some of these pieces (some of them need polishing in their full form). It could also include any lengthy extracts from ASoIaF drafts, like that Shrouded Lord chapter.

Yeah, I remember him writing something about the fact that he has lots of discarded chapters and the like lying around. But he never elaborated on that.

And since you are there right now:

Any chance that you guys publish/release some of those old notes you get from George that are now discarded/overturned. Like the stuff about Bittersteel losing a hand or the Blackfyre Rebellion being at another date Or would that also be stuff for such an Unfinished Tales project?

It would be interesting to get a more detailed picture of the development of the back story of the series.

Edited by Lord Varys

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Something for the far future, at least. It'd have to be done with some sort of role from George, and he has bigger fish to fry. :)

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Text

What's this about Bittersteel losing a hand?! I must know! Please tell me Master of Whisperers!

Edited by The Grey Wolf

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George originally had Bittersteel losing a hand to Bloodraven at the Redgrass Field, in the same combat between them that left Bloodraven less an eye. George decided that that was too much like Jaime and scrapped it, though.

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@Ran

Could you possibly clarify on the whole Dornish Wars conundrum by any chance?

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I just spotted something In the description of TSOTD given by GRRM:

“I have a story in the book. “The Sons of the Dragon” is the title. Those of you who enjoyed “The Princess and the Queen” in DANGEROUS WOMEN and “The Rogue Prince” in ROGUES will probably like this one too. It’s water from the same well. A history rather than a traditional narrative. A lot of telling, only a little showing. (The opposite of what I do in my novels). But if you’re fascinated by the politics of Westeros, as many of my readers seem to be, you should enjoy it. As the title suggests, “The Sons of the Dragon” chronicles the reigns of the second and third Targaryen kings, Aenys I and Maegor the Cruel, along with their mothers, wives, sisters, children, friends, enemies, and rivals. If you’re read something to that effect on the web, good, that much is right.”

Except neither Aenys I nor Maegor I had any sisters. Innocuous typo or a hint at something more?

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1 minute ago, Ran said:

George originally had Bittersteel losing a hand to Bloodraven at the Redgrass Field, in the same combat between them that left Bloodraven less an eye. George decided that that was too much like Jaime and scrapped it, though.

Well, I guess we also have to wait and see what happens during the second duel between Bittersteel and Bloodraven. Apparently Bittersteel got defeated during that one, possibly resulting in him receiving some severe/disfiguring wound, too, or even losing a limb.

That would most likely revealed only when Jaime is done for, anyway.

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31 minutes ago, Ran said:

George originally had Bittersteel losing a hand to Bloodraven at the Redgrass Field, in the same combat between them that left Bloodraven less an eye. George decided that that was too much like Jaime and scrapped it, though.

Thanks for answering!

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I know this is resurrecting an old subject but I came upon this in the Dorne section of TWOIAF: "Yet alone of all the Seven Kingdoms, Dorne remained independent of House Targaryen, resisting attempt after attempt by Aegon, his sisters, and their successors to make the Dornish bend their knees before the Iron Throne."

Given the wording that seems to me conclusive proof that there were indeed Targaryen-sponsored military campaigns against Dorne following the First, which we'll hopefully learn more about in Sons of the Dragon though that does continue to conflict with that pesky line about Daeron breaking the treaty.

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On 01/02/2017 at 11:33 PM, The Grey Wolf said:

I just spotted something In the description of TSOTD given by GRRM:

“I have a story in the book. “The Sons of the Dragon” is the title. Those of you who enjoyed “The Princess and the Queen” in DANGEROUS WOMEN and “The Rogue Prince” in ROGUES will probably like this one too. It’s water from the same well. A history rather than a traditional narrative. A lot of telling, only a little showing. (The opposite of what I do in my novels). But if you’re fascinated by the politics of Westeros, as many of my readers seem to be, you should enjoy it. As the title suggests, “The Sons of the Dragon” chronicles the reigns of the second and third Targaryen kings, Aenys I and Maegor the Cruel, along with their mothers, wives, sisters, children, friends, enemies, and rivals. If you’re read something to that effect on the web, good, that much is right.”

Except neither Aenys I nor Maegor I had any sisters. Innocuous typo or a hint at something more?

Really hope that's more than just a typo!

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On 2/1/2017 at 6:27 PM, Ran said:

George originally had Bittersteel losing a hand to Bloodraven at the Redgrass Field, in the same combat between them that left Bloodraven less an eye. George decided that that was too much like Jaime and scrapped it, though.

Jaime and Orys

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I'm definitely looking forward to learning more about Visenya, Maegor, Aenys and Tyanna.

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On 22.3.2017 at 5:36 AM, The Grey Wolf said:

I know this is resurrecting an old subject but I came upon this in the Dorne section of TWOIAF: "Yet alone of all the Seven Kingdoms, Dorne remained independent of House Targaryen, resisting attempt after attempt by Aegon, his sisters, and their successors to make the Dornish bend their knees before the Iron Throne."

Given the wording that seems to me conclusive proof that there were indeed Targaryen-sponsored military campaigns against Dorne following the First, which we'll hopefully learn more about in Sons of the Dragon though that does continue to conflict with that pesky line about Daeron breaking the treaty.

We have that one, as well as a similar claim coming from Gyldayn's account on the Conquest, indicating that attempts to subdue Dorne during the reigns of the Conqueror's sons.

Unless George has rewritten 'The Sons of the Dragon' since he has read it up to Aenys I's death in London there is no chance that there is any real Dornish War taking place during his reign aside from the war against the Vulture King which certainly qualifies as some sort of Dornish War (considering that many of the followers of the Vulture King actually were Dornishmen and that he was getting clandestine support from Dorne).

I've no idea about more details during the reign of Maegor, of course, but if there had been some major Dornish War conducted during his reign one would expect Ran and Linda had at least squeezed the fact that such war took place into TWoIaF by writing something like 'After his failed attempt to conquer Donre, Maegor continued his campaigns against the Faith Militant.'

But successors is still pretty vague. Jaehaerys I (or his administration) may have tried in his youth, and even Viserys I could have done so. TRP is missing about 7,000 words if I'm remembering correctly.

And it might be that George changed his mind in the middle of the race. One assumes he first wrote the history of the Conquest, then the reign of the Conqueror, followed by 'The Sons of the Dragon', 'The Heirs of the Dragons', etc.

He may not yet have known how many Dornish Wars there were when he was writing the story of the Conquest.

The only king I could see breaking Aegon's Eternal Peace is Maegor. Aenys I would never have done that, and neither Jaehaerys I (whose death was apparently also mourned in Dorne, a sign that relations between KL and Sunspear must have been very good during his reign) nor Viserys I (during whose reign people were contemplating bringing Dorne into the Realm through a marriage between the Prince of Dorne and Rhaenyra) but there seems to be very little time during Maegor's reign for such an enterprise, especially since the man was very much personally involved in the building of the Red Keep.

Aegon III most likely also had neither the resources nor the mind for such a stupid adventure. Else his son would most likely not have decided it was a good idea.

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